I’ve got a flight to NYC in a couple weeks. United, seat assignment, etc all done. This will be the first commercial flight in almost 8 years for me. Strange.
What happened to Southwest?
- Thread starter mcdewey
- Start date
Shawn
En-Route
I am a die hard Southwest fan and will continue to be for a few reasons...two free checked bags, no cancellation or change fees, point to point network, decent rewards program that is actually redeemable. I have not paid out of pocket for personal travel flight since 2012 and still have more points that I know what to do with.
When I flew for work almost weekly we changed return flights over 50% of the time at the last minute and that would not have been possible or feasible on any other airline...while I agree when things go south they go down big time but in normal operations I have seen them go well above and beyond to get passengers where they needed to be vs other airlines that don't give an eff about delays or missed connections.
If you are a no status peasant yeah their system and procedures can seem whacked but once you understand the system and how to use the procedures to your advantage I would never go back to another legacy carrier unless it is a last resort.
They indeed have lost some of their heart over the years, but IMO American, Delta and United never had any.
When I flew for work almost weekly we changed return flights over 50% of the time at the last minute and that would not have been possible or feasible on any other airline...while I agree when things go south they go down big time but in normal operations I have seen them go well above and beyond to get passengers where they needed to be vs other airlines that don't give an eff about delays or missed connections.
If you are a no status peasant yeah their system and procedures can seem whacked but once you understand the system and how to use the procedures to your advantage I would never go back to another legacy carrier unless it is a last resort.
They indeed have lost some of their heart over the years, but IMO American, Delta and United never had any.
schmookeeg
En-Route
Ugh, I forgot that "life hack" -- at Oakland the line gets about 20 deep. One or two wheelchairs and a gaggle who look fit as hell. Jerks.
It's a shame to hear. SWA used to be my absolute favorite to ride on. Generally reliable, fun employees, and the overall "open seating" experience made it a lot easier to book short trips. (Didn't care much about the free checked bags perk since I usually travel light).
It seems the culture is slowly shifting from employees-first to profits-first.
My AAdvantage account number to this day is the Saber login ID I had 30+ years ago. Sabre was always the valuable asset at American finally divesting itself around 2000. Sabre also spun out Travelocity (now part of Expedia). THey're still Texas based.
They own flightexplorer.com by the way.
They own flightexplorer.com by the way.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2014
- Messages
- 9,770
- Location
- Broken Arrow, OK
- Display Name
Display name:
SoonerAviator
Absolutely, although that can often be tough to arrange for line employees. However, part of that "learning how to manage" part is finding ways to set aside time to educate line employees/supervisors on different parts of fundamental accounting so that you can put it into layman's terms and show how their decisions affect the financials. Much of the manufacturing environment revolves around measuring and impacting employee productivity and accuracy/timeliness of inventory transactions. Getting them to understand that just "forcing the system to be correct" has consequences versus following a proper procedure to make sure both sides of the ledger match up.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I miss the rear-facing seats that used to be on some SWA flights. Nothing beats interlocking knees with strangers and trying to avoid eye contact for a couple hours at a time.
Stan Bergey
Pre-takeoff checklist
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2021
- Messages
- 111
- Display Name
Display name:
86SierraBravo
I would say so. Where I live, Southwest is the go-to airline for me and numerous colleagues, as they usually have nonstops to where we need to go, and generally are cheaper than the competition, sometimes by quite a bit.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
My next flight is on United.
ebetancourt
Line Up and Wait
You are correct, I have had a wrong impression for years. They failed because of deregulation, sort of. It was a one man band under a powerful CEO, and they took a very aggressive position on expansion and became hugely unprofitable.
Behind a paywall, but you get a few free articles:
The Man Who Killed Braniff – Texas Monthly
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2013
- Messages
- 6,524
- Display Name
Display name:
3G
Exactly
I was managing a software project for the military - not too big, just 70 locations and a few hundred users. The O-6 running the show had me spend time at a dozen of the locations, to reconcile the HQ vision of the business process with the reality in the field. Not a few hours, or a couple days - it was weeks on-sites. It was worth every hour; we nailed it, managed "up", and she was smart enough to learn and absorb the real world lessons. And I got massive cred with the guys in the trenches, and she got her star, too.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Keep in mind that “fit as hell” is not disqualifying. Pre boarding is for people who, for whatever reason, need extra time.
Granted, stuffing too many bags into overhead compartments so you don’t have to put carry-ones under the seat in front of you doesn’t constitute “needing” extra time, but there could be valid reasons for at least some of them. I pre-boarded for a period of time after 9/11 so that I didn’t delay the flight due to being “randomly” selected for rescreening at the gate.
MIFlyer
Pattern Altitude
On commercial flights, we check as much as we can, and put our small items under the seats, using no overhead space at all. leaving, we stand up and briskly walk off the plane, after waiting for 9 hours for a bunch of sociopaths to jam/unjam everything in the overhead bins and nothing under their seats. I wish that there was an airline for non-sociopaths, but I haven't found it. it would be great to have a 'no overhead bin" airline. I can't imagine how fast on/off would be.
I need to buy a plane, people make me grouchy.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
I always enjoyed the folks that put their bag in the overhead lengthwise, then immediately close the door.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Try meditation.
I try to be one of the last off the airplane, I don't like being the in the crush of people. Unfortunately, my carryon does not fit under the seat, so it's got to go in the bin. But it's a small-ish carryon. Never had a problem finding space. If I've checked the bag (ugh) then it should be waiting for me when I get to the carousel.
Pinecone
En-Route
They have not been the lowest cost for a LONG time.
I remember in the 90s headed to BWI. BIG sign, SW, $79.95 to Nashville. But that is one way. And, at the time, they quoted the air fare without the taxes and fees (it tooo Congress passing a law to stop them from doing that). So $80 one way, $160 RT, plus taxes and fees, some $240 RT. We were booked on Delta, upgraded to First, assigned seat, for $135 round trip each.
A couple of years ago, a friend was flying SAN to MSP. Delta was over $200 cheaper.
And think about it, SW does not allow their fares on the fare comparison site. If they were really the lowest price, they would WANT to be on the comparison sites.
Sluggo63
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2013
- Messages
- 1,927
- Display Name
Display name:
Sluggo63
I always thought that instead of charging for checked baggage, airlines should let checked bags travel free and charge for the overhead. That would make boarding and deboarding so much quicker.
Lindberg
Final Approach
In the 90s, all of the airlines did that. And it was a DOT reg in 2011 that stopped it. But SW doesn't charge extra for certain seats or for bags, which is significant on most major carriers if you don't have status.
That's truly extraordinary. You must have had some super status.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
I totally agree.!!
Pinecone
En-Route
I seldom find SW to be the cheapest.
Pinecone
En-Route
United and Delta have a "Basic" Economy. No checked bag, no advanced seat assignment.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2015
- Messages
- 4,113
- Display Name
Display name:
Piperonca
New York Times article today "The Shameful Open Secret Behind Southwest’s Failure":
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/31/...qfvardaGZJ_diPcyA0lVZY2rbflqVA&smid=share-url
Comments are interesting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/31/...qfvardaGZJ_diPcyA0lVZY2rbflqVA&smid=share-url
Comments are interesting.
bflynn
Final Approach
does not or can not? They don’t have the feeds.
but you’re right, they’re just another big airline now, but more technologically behind.
OneCharlieTango
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 1,165
- Display Name
Display name:
OneCharlieTango
Without more government regulation and oversight, and greater accountability, we may see more fiascos like this one,. . .
Always the same solution.
I’m still trying to figure out what Basic Economy is on United. The only place “Basic Economy” as a phrase exists on the United website is under baggae rules. I booked an Economy seat for this weekend, have a seat assignment but can’t figure out what’s going on with baggage. No use calling, it’s a 90 min wait on hold.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 11,186
- Location
- Lone Jack, MO
- Display Name
Display name:
Greg Bockelman
If I recall correctly, all it is is you are allowed no carry on bags and one personal item. Pretty much what Pinecone said.
Sluggo63
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2013
- Messages
- 1,927
- Display Name
Display name:
Sluggo63
Larry in TN
En-Route
https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/travel/inflight/basic-economy.html
Less expensive fare.
No full-size carry-on bag on domestic, and short-haul international, flights. Just one personal item.
No advance seat assignment. Avoid if you want to sit with a traveling companion(s).
Last boarding group boarding, which doesn't really matter since you won't have a large carry-on bag.
Works well for some people to save some money. Not so much for others. Read the restrictions carefully when booking to ensure they won't cause you any problems.
Big advantage to the airline is that the passengers in the last boarding group don't have large carry-on bags so it reduced the number of gate-check bags, particularly at the end of boarding. Helps avoid departure delays.
hm….never saw this. time to back to the website.
United is rapidly becoming as silly as Frontier.
But I have an assigned seat. Which is why this is so confusing.
Larry in TN
En-Route
If it's still before check-in, it doesn't sound like you have a Basic Economy fare.
Passengers with BE fares will be assigned seats sometime between check-in and departure. Often it's done at the gate within an hour of departure time.
ElPaso Pilot
En-Route
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 2,510
- Display Name
Display name:
ElPaso Pilot
United created their "Basic Economy" fare set in 2016 to compete with the budget airlines segment, which also allowed them to appear more competitive in internet price searches.
I always make sure I don't purchase or display those, since it counts diddly towards status and upgrades are not possible.
Last edited:
schmookeeg
En-Route
If you want a kafka-esque experience, I can suggest the new Norse Atlantic airline, which had something like 11 upsell steps for our booking to England before I threw the figurative desk and gave up.
Or, book Virgin Atlantic, and experience brain lock when you're asked if you want Delight Class, with no explanation wtf that is for the few hundro extra. I felt like I was at a massage parlor being offered a happy ending. I closed the browser. We booked United.
Or, book Virgin Atlantic, and experience brain lock when you're asked if you want Delight Class, with no explanation wtf that is for the few hundro extra. I felt like I was at a massage parlor being offered a happy ending. I closed the browser. We booked United.
Without fail, one of the questions I get in class is "why doesn't [fill in the blank] update the software"?
As I explain,
1) straight conversion from X to Y (where Y is the student's favorite programming language) is usually not practical. There are tools but they aint great and there's still a huge mannual effort to clean up and test. BTDT
2) If you're going to do a conversion, you really need to step back and review the legacy system, identify what functionality is still viable, what is no longer needed, and what new functionality is needed.
3) There are times when some functionality can be upgraded or new functionality introduced but the integration effort is non-trivial. BTDT.
4) In which case, to do it right, you'll end up designing an entirely new system.
5) No matter what, it's going to be hugely expensive and take a great deal of time and by the time it's deployed, the odds are that #2 is going to be invoked again.
As I explain,
1) straight conversion from X to Y (where Y is the student's favorite programming language) is usually not practical. There are tools but they aint great and there's still a huge mannual effort to clean up and test. BTDT
2) If you're going to do a conversion, you really need to step back and review the legacy system, identify what functionality is still viable, what is no longer needed, and what new functionality is needed.
3) There are times when some functionality can be upgraded or new functionality introduced but the integration effort is non-trivial. BTDT.
4) In which case, to do it right, you'll end up designing an entirely new system.
5) No matter what, it's going to be hugely expensive and take a great deal of time and by the time it's deployed, the odds are that #2 is going to be invoked again.
Side note about United....For historical reasons, United is the airline of choice for any Boeing travel (unless not available). So I racked up lots of miles while working at Boeing. Come 2005, I get bumped off my flight (not United) back from Airventure - but my luggage (in violation of TSA rules) made it home. I immediately headed to the United counter, ready to use my miles. Nope. United's Frequent Flier program changed the rules (again) and because I hadn't used or added to my miles in 2 years, I lost all of them.
Fast forward to this week. Booking on United, my original FF membership number is no longer valid but....Big item on the web site with my Lifetime Mileage in the 6 figures. Of course not good for anything, but why on earth would United bother to keep track of it after all this time?
Fast forward to this week. Booking on United, my original FF membership number is no longer valid but....Big item on the web site with my Lifetime Mileage in the 6 figures. Of course not good for anything, but why on earth would United bother to keep track of it after all this time?
ElPaso Pilot
En-Route
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 2,510
- Display Name
Display name:
ElPaso Pilot
United is doing something in your market.
I see the Basic option dropped in flights originating from DEN when I search.
When I search for something like DFW-LAX, and click through to "Find Flights", Basic Economy magically appears.