What happened to Southwest?

ElPaso Pilot said:
United is doing something in your market.

I see the Basic option dropped in flights originating from DEN when I search.

When I search for something like DFW-LAX, and click through to "Find Flights", Basic Economy magically appears.
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Denver is a major hub for United, has a maintenance facility and everything. One of the A&P Managers keeps his airplane at CFO (FTG) just a few miles away.
 
murphey said:
...a huge mannual effort to clean up and test. BTDT
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Exactly. Regression testing is often an enormous piece of the job. And when you've moved to a new language, identifying all the possible error modes and ensuring you exercise every line of code becomes formidable.

Lots of that old code was written without the structured programming disciplines we depend on today, and testing was often poor by today's standards. Errors were patched in the most expeditious way possible, often haphazardly and without much documentation. It can be a real bear to get it ported over to a new language and clean it all up.

Sometimes it would be simpler to just start from scratch.
 
murphey said:
More and more confusing....nothing about basic economy...it may only be on certain flights and not system-wide.
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I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you're confused about so, if this is off track, steer me back in the right direction.

Basic Economy (BE) is a fare type (N Class). It isn't a type of seat or section on the airplane. It gives you a lower price in exchange of your accepting additional restrictions. BE is not necessarily available on every flight, all the time. BE fares can be filtered out, when searching for a ticket on the website or on the app, so you might not even see them.

That drop-down box in your screenshot is showing class of service, not fare type. If BE is available on the flights in your search results, it'll show up as an additional column. If it's not available, or you have it deselected (selected should be the default), then that column will not be there.

upload_2023-1-1_18-18-58.png

If you select a BE fare, the dialog box shown in post 155 will come up requiring you to verify that the BE restrictions work for you before you can purchase that ticket.


murphey said:
Come 2005, I get bumped off my flight (not United) back from Airventure - but my luggage (in violation of TSA rules) made it home. I immediately headed to the United counter, ready to use my miles. Nope. United's Frequent Flier program changed the rules (again) and because I hadn't used or added to my miles in 2 years, I lost all of them.
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Positive bag matching ended for domestic flights some time ago. I can't seem to find the data with Google but I think it was around 2009 which was after your flight. Even so, when the rule was in affect, the bags could travel without the passenger as long as it wasn't the passenger's action which caused the separation. As long as you didn't volunteer for the bump, there was no requirement to remove your bag.

Also, the miles no longer expire. Thankfully, that rule went away, too.
 
Larry in TN said:
I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you're confused about so, if this is off track, steer me back in the right direction.

Basic Economy (BE) is a fare type (N Class). It isn't a type of seat or section on the airplane. It gives you a lower price in exchange of your accepting additional restrictions. BE is not necessarily available on every flight, all the time. BE fares can be filtered out, when searching for a ticket on the website or on the app, so you might not even see them.

That drop-down box in your screenshot is showing class of service, not fare type. If BE is available on the flights in your search results, it'll show up as an additional column. If it's not available, or you have it deselected (selected should be the default), then that column will not be there.

View attachment 113619

If you select a BE fare, the dialog box shown in post 155 will come up requiring you to verify that the BE restrictions work for you before you can purchase that ticket.



Positive bag matching ended for domestic flights some time ago. I can't seem to find the data with Google but I think it was around 2009 which was after your flight. Even so, when the rule was in affect, the bags could travel without the passenger as long as it wasn't the passenger's action which caused the separation. As long as you didn't volunteer for the bump, there was no requirement to remove your bag.

Also, the miles no longer expire. Thankfully, that rule went away, too.
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Larry, I ran several searches originating out of DEN and basic did not show for me either. It does for other markets.
 
You can occasionally end up with an economy plus seat buying a basic economy ticket on United if there the only seats left when you check in…also as discussed some routes they don’t exist or very limited in number…
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Larry, I ran several searches originating out of DEN and basic did not show for me either. It does for other markets.
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I don't know much about how the BE (N) fares are allocated. As I said, they won't always be an option. On some flights they may be sold out or your date range doesn't fit the fare class restrictions such as an advance purchase requirement.

Here's an example I found out of Denver. Notice how it's sold out on the first flight but available on the second. I'm assuming BE is sold out on the first due to the fare difference between Economy on the two flights.

upload_2023-1-1_21-0-3.png


Warlock said:
You can occasionally end up with an economy plus seat buying a basic economy ticket
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Yes. The BE passengers get what's left after those with higher fare classes have had the opportunity to pick their seats. Sometimes the leftovers are the middle seats way in the back. Other times they are window or aisle seats in E+, or even the exit row, that were just vacated by the last status passengers to be upgraded. If where you sit is important to you, BE fares may not be a good match.
 
TCABM said:
That has been my experience on every commercial flight I’ve taken since about January 2008, when I last flew British Airways from London to Dar Es Salaam, TZ.

Wasn’t even business class (unfortunately), but that was the last time I felt like an airline made flying special.
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I do get a little nostalgic when I hear the dot matrix printer fire up at the gate to print out the full pax manifest (or whatever they use it for)
 
you ain't kidding. My stupid wall mounted microwave blowded up last night, checked mfg date, 2007. My grandmother's panasonic from 1994 is still cranking it out back home, damn light bulb hasn't even gone out. They don' make 'em like they yousta anymo....
 
Yep. My HP-15C calculator that I bought in 1984 is still going strong and in regular use. Think HP makes ‘em like that anymore? Hah!
 
To be fair, the HP-15C cost $130 in 1982 when it was introduced, which is just north of $400 today. We could make a calculator that lasts 40 years now, just no one wants to pay $400 for it. My (even then) ludicrously overpriced TI-89 cost $120 in 2005 and it’s still chugging fine, only 18 years but still.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-15C
 
hindsight2020 said:
you ain't kidding. My stupid wall mounted microwave blowded up last night, checked mfg date, 2007. My grandmother's panasonic from 1994 is still cranking it out back home, damn light bulb hasn't even gone out. They don' make 'em like they yousta anymo....
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I have a Tappan microwave that I bought at the Altus AFB BX when my daughter was born back in 1993. Still kicking.
 
Speaking of "they don't make him like they used to" our apartment came with relatively high-end washer dryer setup.. fancy modes touch panels all that jazz. I freaking hate the thing, in 3 years it's already had to be replaced twice.. the first time the PCB that drives the touch controls failed the second time the drain motor failed

In the meantime the Maytag in my dad's house (that came with the house when bought in '91) with just a few big analog controls on it still works.. no it is not energy star or 'HE' certified but it's still cranking
 
First come to see that all airlines today are just a government subsidized metro bus with wings

Now everything will make more sense

When I unfortunately have to airline somewhere it’s often American, a good chunk of their time the plane breaks down, when the plane works I’ll normally have a fat person overflowing into my seat and poorly raised children screaming the whole time as their parents do nothing

Thinking about it, you get more space and quiet on a actual metro bus
 
Bill said:
My HP-15C still works perfectly.
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Still use an 11C from 1984 myself. I remember buying it after my earlier Hp's LED display died. By then I was addicted to RPN so there was no other answer.
 
I
AKiss20 said:
To be fair, the HP-15C cost $130 in 1982 when it was introduced, which is just north of $400 today. We could make a calculator that lasts 40 years now, just no one wants to pay $400 for it. My (even then) ludicrously overpriced TI-89 cost $120 in 2005 and it’s still chugging fine, only 18 years but still.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-15C
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I went fancy and got the TI-92 in 2000. I think it was about $150, but it was a pretty feature-packed calculator that may or may not have had a "problem solver" function which allowed you to enter equations and it would solve it. Not technically allowed for the ACT/SAT, but the proctors didn't check calculator models back then.
 
AKiss20 said:
To be fair, the HP-15C cost $130 in 1982 when it was introduced, which is just north of $400 today. We could make a calculator that lasts 40 years now, just no one wants to pay $400 for it. My (even then) ludicrously overpriced TI-89 cost $120 in 2005 and it’s still chugging fine, only 18 years but still.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-15C
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I dunno; technology advancements and improved manufacturing techniques have brought electronic prices down considerably. Back in the 80s, a PC cost several times what I paid for my newest laptop, even without considering inflation.

I'll note that you can buy an HP-12C (the financial calculator) for around 40 bucks or so.
https://www.amazon.com/HEWLETT-PACK...tronics&sprefix=hp+15c,electronics,258&sr=1-3
 
murphey said:
Fast forward to this week. Booking on United, my original FF membership number is no longer valid but....Big item on the web site with my Lifetime Mileage in the 6 figures. Of course not good for anything, but why on earth would United bother to keep track of it after all this time?
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Because it applies to your making Million Miler status. 1 Million miles on United equals lifetime Gold status.

BTW, if you had a United credit card, any charge counts for activity on your FF account.
 
Pinecone said:
Because it applies to your making Million Miler status. 1 Million miles on United equals lifetime Gold status.

BTW, if you had a United credit card, any charge counts for activity on your FF account.
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I haven't flown United since 2005 when they refused to honor the miles. I have no intention of getting a United credit card. My Costco card is much more useful. I just thought it was funny they still had the miles from 20+ yrs ago.
 
I feel sorry for all you frequent commercial flyers. So much drama to manage. I have a couple more direct commercial flights to Europe for vacations and then I’m done.
If the designation is east of the Mississippi I’m gonna fly my own plane. West of the Mississippi I’ll drive the truck and camper. European destinations, I found that I can take a canard cruise line from New York to Southampton or Germany for less than the cost of a commercial flight. Five relaxing days at sea, free meals, entertainment. Then I take the wonderful train system of Europe anywhere. The hardest part is the back-and-forth to New York.
 
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murphey said:
I haven't flown United since 2005 when they refused to honor the miles. I have no intention of getting a United credit card. My Costco card is much more useful. I just thought it was funny they still had the miles from 20+ yrs ago.
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Just letting you know. I have a Hilton card, that I use very seldom (mainly stay in Marriotts), but for the $95 a year, I get Gold status.

Different miles. Million Miler miles never expire, so they show up.
 
Before anyone melts down- I am 100% pro-capitalism.

BUT one of the weaknesses of capitalism is it can reward short term greed for a while… Again-not championing scrapping capitalism- but there’s no economic model that exists that doesn’t have weaknesses, and this is one of our weeknesses. “Next quarter profit repor” minded management is a recipe for disaster long term. Hero on paper till it all goes to poop like this did. Management needs a solid 10 year or better outlook to make spind decisions.

The strength of capitalism will also hold southwest to account if they learn from their blunder or not!
 
Huckster79 said:
Before anyone melts down- I am 100% pro-capitalism.

BUT one of the weaknesses of capitalism is it can reward short term greed for a while… Again-not championing scrapping capitalism- but there’s no economic model that exists that doesn’t have weaknesses, and this is one of our weeknesses. “Next quarter profit repor” minded management is a recipe for disaster long term. Hero on paper till it all goes to poop like this did. Management needs a solid 10 year or better outlook to make spind decisions.

The strength of capitalism will also hold southwest to account if they learn from their blunder or not!
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Short-term greed is a weakness of humans and will be present in any political system.
 
Huckster79 said:
“Next quarter profit report” minded management is a recipe for disaster long term.
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So it's a self-correcting problem. If you concentrate on income and destroy the capability that people pay you for (reliable delivery) then you won't need to worry at some point. ;)
 
Hey, what is going on here? Is it still actual?
 
Morgan3820 said:
I feel sorry for all you frequent commercial flyers. So much drama to manage. I have a couple more direct commercial flights to Europe for vacations and then I’m done.
If the designation is east of the Mississippi I’m gonna fly my own plane. West of the Mississippi I’ll drive the truck and camper. European destinations, I found that I can take a canard cruise line from New York to Southampton or Germany for less than the cost of a commercial flight. Five relaxing days at sea, free meals, entertainment. Then I take the wonderful train system of Europe anywhere. The hardest part is the back-and-forth to New York.
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I really wish I could give up commercial air travel. Unfortunately, my new job has me traveling fairly often to NYC and Charlotte from Omaha. Charlotte is do-able, but not so much the Manhattan trips. I've done the flight planning dozens of times. Charlotte would be seven hours of flying out, nearly nine hours back, plus two fuel stops each way... and anything but day VFR is out. Sure wish it were otherwise, but it's not...
 
I guess I'm lucky. My home airport lost Delta years ago and United recently. We only have American now.

I have not flown on any airlines other than those three in at least 20 years. I flew on a Southwest milkrun from Austin to Houston to El Paso to Phoenix to LA to San Jose once back in the '80s. I don't remember having unassigned seats, but I do remember the FA's miniskirts. :D
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
GE said the current software Southwest uses "performed as designed" during the problems last month. "We are working with them to define new functionality as they improve their crew rescheduling capability,” it said in a statement.​

Performed as designed in 199x.

GE is saying "we've been telling you for a long time exactly what would happen, and guess what. It did."
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Yeah, I thought that was a diplomatic scolding when I read the article.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
GE said the current software Southwest uses "performed as designed" during the problems last month. "We are working with them to define new functionality as they improve their crew rescheduling capability,” it said in a statement.​

Performed as designed in 199x.

GE is saying "we've been telling you for a long time exactly what would happen, and guess what. It did."
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I have it on good authority that some of the more widely reported issues were contractual, rather than technical, in nature. I suspect that there was a lot of both.
 
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Just as a Data point…as I mentioned my daughter and her stranding in this thread, this morning she received $841.00 reimbursement for rent car and travel expenses, also a credit for her original round trip flight and 25 K miles which is really an average round trip flight. So at least they are following through with their promise but I am sure it could in total go a long way to fixing the original issue.
 
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