What do you folks think about the Icon A5

FloridaPilot

FloridaPilot

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So the A5 is finally coming out. Looking at the specs it seems like it's targeting the light sport market.

Specs:

Gross weight: 1,510 lbs

Useful Load: 430 to 550lbs

Range 427 nm

Fuel Capacity: 20 Gallons

Fuel Consumption: 3.8 gph (Not bad!)

Endurance: 5 Hours


What do you folks think?
 
I like it a lot but for me to even think about it, it would have to be around 75K. 200K for a VFR, 2 place, 100 kt amphib? Not gonna happen.
 
I think it's pretty cool too.


Now let me ask you this. Am I allowed to land anywhere where there is water or is there certain restrictions by the FAA?
 
I think it is pretty sweet and really like the concept. Hopefully they depreciate as fast as the Cirrus planes and I can afford one in 8-10 years! They also keep my dream alive of living on a lake and commuting to work in the morning in my airplane!
 
I think it was the STUPIDEST most expensive possible way to bring an amphibious LSA to the market ! Think about it.
 
I like em, very impressed by the videos of them being out through their paces.

Of course the price is way high, but unlike planes like C162s and CZAWs the A5 really looks to be a functional, thought out and fun plane.

Besides for a private fun plane, hard to beat a amphib.


Still 200k will get you into a IFR A185F amphib or a PA18 if you want something smaller, like the other guy said though, it'll be a heck of a contender after 7-8yrs.
 
An awful lot of money for a fancy jet ski/ flying boat. Looks great.
 
Looks beautiful, and when I show it to people they seem to love it. Hopefully they sell enough to stick around. (and hit the used market in 5 years)

Stuff like it makes me excited about GA.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I think it was the STUPIDEST most expensive possible way to bring an amphibious LSA to the market ! Think about it.
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Why do you say that? IMO The price will adjust based on the demand for it! But it looks pretty cool for a light!
 
FloridaPilot said:
Now let me ask you this. Am I allowed to land anywhere where there is water or is there certain restrictions by the FAA?
Click to expand...

I think the simple answer is you're allowed to land anywhere that you're not forbidden to land.

Problem is not so much the FAA, but state, local and municipal ordinances that might restrict that sort of thing.

Anyway I predict that they will find a market.
 
FastEddieB said:
I think the simple answer is you're allowed to land anywhere that you're not forbidden to land.

Problem is not so much the FAA, but state, local and municipal ordinances that might restrict that sort of thing.

Anyway I predict that they will find a market.
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Yeah the local aspect is more of the issue. I know that there was a group in Iowa and Kansas that was teaming up to open the lakes and waterways to amphibs. They had an online petition but I honestly have not heard anything in probably a year.
 
There will be a large initial prod run, because there are many folks who signed up a long time ago and locked in their price(although I've heard there are plenty of guys who have had their deals modified) anywhere from $100k or a bit over to $149k. After that, if Icon actually finishes the planes that have been paid for, then the demand will taper off to near nothing.

I was a buyer at $115k, back when it was first offered, but the contract they sent for my deposit had way, way too many holes in it allowing them to back out or change the terms.

I want to see them succeed, but takers are going to be in short supply at $200k.
 
FloridaPilot said:
So the A5 is finally coming out. Looking at the specs it seems like it's targeting the light sport market.

Specs:

Gross weight: 1,510 lbs

Useful Load: 430 to 550lbs

Range 427 nm

Fuel Capacity: 20 Gallons

Fuel Consumption: 3.8 gph (Not bad!)

Endurance: 5 Hours


What do you folks think?
Click to expand...


I'm waiting for one of my guys to take delivery to fit it out to be a yacht toy. I think he may need a bigger boat to actually handle it in operation, but the numbers and measurements say we should be able to manage it on his 120'er.

It'll be cool if it works out, but not as useful as a helicopter.
 
docmirror said:
I want to see them succeed, but takers are going to be in short supply at $200k.
Click to expand...

Maybe.

But if they can appeal to a certain niche, it may just fly.

Look at the yachts and other pleasure craft priced well above that which find a market. To the rich, $200k can be a trivial sum for a new toy.

We'll just have to see.
 
docmirror said:
There will be a large initial prod run, because there are many folks who signed up a long time ago and locked in their price(although I've heard there are plenty of guys who have had their deals modified) anywhere from $100k or a bit over to $149k. After that, if Icon actually finishes the planes that have been paid for, then the demand will taper off to near nothing.

I was a buyer at $115k, back when it was first offered, but the contract they sent for my deposit had way, way too many holes in it allowing them to back out or change the terms.

I want to see them succeed, but takers are going to be in short supply at $200k.
Click to expand...

The waiting list of really rich people with one on order is pretty long.
 
FastEddieB said:
Maybe.

But if they can appeal to a certain niche, it may just fly.

Look at the yachts and other pleasure craft priced well above that which find a market. To the rich, $200k can be a trivial sum for a new toy.

We'll just have to see.
Click to expand...

I hope you're right. I can sleep and float on a yacht for weeks at a time. No classes needed to spend $200k(or more) for a yacht. I can weigh 400lbs and drive it while half-drunk down the gulf passage. I just think Icon is a very narrow, and semi-complicated market. But, it would be nice for the Icon to herald in a revival in GA.
 
docmirror said:
I hope you're right. I can sleep and float on a yacht for weeks at a time. No classes needed to spend $200k(or more) for a yacht. I can weigh 400lbs and drive it while half-drunk down the gulf passage. I just think Icon is a very narrow, and semi-complicated market. But, it would be nice for the Icon to herald in a revival in GA.
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You aren't thinking yacht, you're thinking boat. The A5 has been a long awaited yacht toy. The guys buying them are paying twice that for their tender boats carried on (or beneath) the yacht's deck. There are the Seabob HP sleds that cost more and just drag you through the water fast. They'll hire an instructor to double as a deckhand if they don't already hold a rating, which many do.
 
docmirror said:
[...] I want to see them succeed, but takers are going to be in short supply at $200k.
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I guess this depends of the volumes they have projected. CubCrafters seems to be very happy with the sales of their Carbon Cub SS, which is in the same price range and which serves an IMHO even smaller niche: Off-Airfield-Backcountry operations.

I would love to have an ambhip and if it wasn't for the $$$, an A5 would certainly be cool.

Edit: The Searey Elite is around $150,000, much less cool and refined but still seems to be pretty popular.
Quite obviously, there are people out there who have the funds and the will to put down such amounts for a toy.
 
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German guy said:
I guess this depends of the volumes they have projected. CubCrafters seems to be very happy with the sales of their Carbon Cub SS, which is in the same price range and which serves an IMHO even smaller niche: Off-Airfield-Backcountry operations.

I would love to have an ambhip and if it wasn't for the $$$, an A5 would certainly be cool.
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It's the folding wings that makes it attractive. When you can slide it into a container and ship it anywhere in the world, now you have a really useful toy/tool.
 
docmirror said:
I ... I just think Icon is a very narrow, and semi-complicated market. But, it would be nice for the Icon to herald in a revival in GA.
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It's a niche market and priced accordingly, definitely not the revival of GA. What might help though, at least for sport pilot or LSA, would be if the rest of them were allowed to bust the 1320 pound GW limitation by 190 lbs like Icon was.
 
At $50-100K, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. But with 430 lbs useful weight and at over $200K (plus 9.25% tax, hi California!), no thanks.
 
FastEddieB said:
Correction: Wannabe Off-Airfield-Backcountry operations.
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Yes, it probably also attracts wannabe backcountrys pilots. But who cares? I doubt that it would be attractive for wannabes, if it wasn't such a capable backcountry aircraft.

Actually, now that I think about it, I believe that Icon as well as CubCrafter chose the only viable way to be profitable with a LSA: They designed products which stand out, which can do thing other planes can't and which trigger the 'cool, I must have this' reflex, even if this means that it will be a niche product. IMHO it's better to successfully serve a well funded niche, assuming it is big enough, than to unsuccessfully aim for the mass market.

Just look at the Cessna 162 or similar planes - they are (or were) in direct competition with planes like Cessna 152s or even 172s / Piper PA-28. I doubt that the 162 would have been a success even if they would have sold it for $20,000 less.

Most pilots seem to be super cheap and unless something is really cool and appealing, most of them will always say 'hey, for the price of a new BugsmasherEvo I can get a much more useful Cessna / Piper / Mooney / Beech / whatever and still have money left to buy fuel for xxx hours of flying. And, such an older plane also doesn't depreciate much anymore and I can take luggage / friends with me, if I want'.

It appears very rare that anybody here on PoA ever buys a brand new airplane. On backountrypilots.org, I remember however multiple cases of people buying new planes, despite of the much smaller size of the forum.
 
Silvaire said:
It's a niche market and priced accordingly, definitely not the revival of GA. What might help though, at least for sport pilot or LSA, would be if the rest of them were allowed to bust the 1320 pound GW limitation by 190 lbs like Icon was.
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You are absolutely right there. The early C150 is MGW at 1500, and a bunch of other planes would be eligible too. I'm guessing that Icon used the 'safety' wand to get the FAA to bust the LSA restriction. Would like to see it applied to many other applications in GA.
 
German guy said:
Actually, now that I think about it, I believe that Icon as well as CubCrafter chose the only viable way to be profitable with a LSA: They designed products which stand out, which can do thing other planes can't and which trigger the 'cool, I must have this' reflex, even if this means that it will be a niche product. IMHO it's better to successfully serve a well funded niche, assuming it is big enough, than to unsuccessfully aim for the mass.
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Exactly. The ICON reminds me of Steve Jobs and Apple. The first iPhone cost over 500 bucks when I bought it brand new. Now look at em and how they changed the cell phone industry. Disruptive innovation is POWERFUL.

I really hope innovators like this in the LSA arena will drive new pilots to GA. Our sixty year old Cessnas sure aren't doing it. Now we just need some reform on maintenance to make this hobby more affordable and hopefully Pipstrel, Vans, ICON, etc can bring young folks back to GA.

Just my .02

TJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I think it is really cool, and I don't think it is overpriced. It is just a bit out of my price range, but that is just me. If I wasn't about to retire and trying to figure how long I am going to live so I can make my money last until I die, I'd probably get one. I may still get one in a few years.
 
docmirror said:
You are absolutely right there. The early C150 is MGW at 1500, and a bunch of other planes would be eligible too. I'm guessing that Icon used the 'safety' wand to get the FAA to bust the LSA restriction. Would like to see it applied to many other applications in GA.
Click to expand...

Yes it was the "safety card" that was used and it's ironic to infer that someone is somehow "safer" landing an Icon on an undeveloped lake or river than a 150 at an airport :dunno:

Same goes for something like a Cub or Champ - okay for Sport Pilot unless you put a radio and a starter in it then nope, too dangerous. I think The 1320 lb GW limit was specifically designed to eliminate a large group of perfectly good existing aircraft from the SP realm because who's gonna pay 100k for an LSA if there are tons of perfectly good 16k 150's out there that can be flown?
 
You guys understand the Icon falls under the Seaplane weight right? 1320 is no an applicable number, 1430 is the one you should use. They are not unique in exceptions, Terrafuego got an allowance as well for road safety gear. Cessna could simply offer an STC reducing the GW of the 150-152 to make it work. Some of the Seneca's have the same provision to get them under the European IFR weight/cost margin of IIRC 4400lbs.
 
The way I look at it, if I had a chance to trailer my plane home and store it in the garage rather than spent $500 a month on a hangar, that hangar money goes right to the bottom line of the purchase price. I'm not one to borrow money to buy toys, but for those who do, add 500 to the monthly nut.
 
Henning said:
You guys understand the Icon falls under the Seaplane weight right? 1320 is no an applicable number, 1430 is the one you should use. They are not unique in exceptions, Terrafuego got an allowance as well for road safety gear. Cessna could simply offer an STC reducing the GW of the 150-152 to make it work. Some of the Seneca's have the same provision to get them under the European IFR weight/cost margin of IIRC 4400lbs.
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You're right, forgot about that but no, Cessna cannot offer an STC because no aircraft can be SP compliant if it has ever been certified for a GW greater than 1320 lbs. this has been thoroughly hashed out over Cubs, Champs and Luscombes already and the answer is nope.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I think it's pretty cool too.


Now let me ask you this. Am I allowed to land anywhere where there is water or is there certain restrictions by the FAA?
Click to expand...

I here Commufornia has made it illegal to land almost everywhere. Connecticut is even worse. On the East coast, stay out of reservoirs, especially in New York State. Maine is very liberal about it.
Here is a good resource;
http://www.seaplanes.org/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=122&Itemid=235
 
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Shepherd said:
I here Commufornia has made it illegal to land almost everywhere. Connecticut is even worse. On the East coast, stay out of reservoirs, especially in New York State. Maine is very liberal about it.
Here is a good resource;
http://www.seaplanes.org/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=122&Itemid=235
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Yep, it's very dependent on where you are. There are a lot of drinking water reservoirs where no liquid fuel powered activities are allowed, and some with nothing allowed. Even here where it's well allowed and with the Bahamas so close, you still need an amphib to make things practical due to lack of infrastructure. Minnesota or SE Alaska, simple floats are fine.
 
Shepherd said:
I here Commufornia has made it illegal to land almost everywhere. Connecticut is even worse. On the East coast, stay out of reservoirs, especially in New York State. Maine is very liberal about it.
Here is a good resource;
http://www.seaplanes.org/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=122&Itemid=235
Click to expand...



NY is great for seaplanes, lots of places to land outside of drinking water reservoirs and whatnot.

DEC puts out tons of great contour maps too

image.jpg
 
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