Velocity

Flyingfish15 said:
Hey I know this thread is old but currently looking at a previously started Velocity SE kit for sale near me. Price is too good to pass up, he's looking for 20k with a used io360 and propeller.Brad
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I bought someone's partially completed Velocity SERG and have spent 6x the cost of the kit and am not yet in the air. These things are typically skeletons around which after a lot of money and parts there is something that approaches a body that flies. Just don't think you are getting an airplane for 20k, you are getting a starting point.
 
Id never by an unfinished composit project again. UV will completly destroy the matrix and fiber and foam. Even a single window letting in light is enough to destroy an unprotected part.

Even if its painted... How long did it sit without paint??
 
pfarber said:
Id never by an unfinished composit project again. UV will completly destroy the matrix and fiber and foam. Even a single window letting in light is enough to destroy an unprotected part.

Even if its painted... How long did it sit without paint??
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That's a bit of an exaggeration. Sunlight hitting an unpainted part destroys it? :rolleyes:

That said, the same thing could be said for a completed composite kit. You have no idea which parts got some sunlight on them before that pretty paint job went on.
 
A bit old but s good overview of the SE and Xl.

 
pfarber said:
Id never by an unfinished composit project again. UV will completly destroy the matrix and fiber and foam. Even a single window letting in light is enough to destroy an unprotected part.

Even if its painted... How long did it sit without paint??
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It was in primer tucked away in a dark hangar, so not an issue.
 
I sat in a Velocity XL twin the summer of 2019. It has a wide cabin, but the console consumes a lot of space, so that my shoulders were against the door. The 173 (or SE) would be worse.

Aerocad has Aerocanard kits, and it looks like their SX body would fit me better than the XL, as it doesn't have a console. Aerocad offers plans and sub kits, so you can scratch build as much, or as little as you want. I'd do their sub kits, to save time, if I were to build one. Gotta try it on, first.

If I remember right, they're in KC, MO, so when I do my Route 66 tour, I could make a long detour to check it out.
 
Crashnburn said:
I sat in a Velocity XL twin the summer of 2019. It has a wide cabin, but the console consumes a lot of space, so that my shoulders were against the door. The 173 (or SE) would be worse.

Aerocad has Aerocanard kits, and it looks like their SX body would fit me better than the XL, as it doesn't have a console. Aerocad offers plans and sub kits, so you can scratch build as much, or as little as you want. I'd do their sub kits, to save time, if I were to build one. Gotta try it on, first.

If I remember right, they're in KC, MO, so when I do my Route 66 tour, I could make a long detour to check it out.
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They are in Florissant. Right state, wrong side.
 
70 knts over the numbers with no flaps... So you kill the speed with attitude? I'm at 70 knots until I know I've made the runway, but with flaps I'm sure it drains the power more efficiently.

I'm a student pilot still in a Warrior, contemplating my next plane. This one keeps coming up. I'll probably stay in the Warrior for 2-3 years, but the idea of starting a build to have finished in 3 years sounds interesting. I just wonder if this is too big of a jump to make. Maybe I need to go from 112knts to 150knts before I go to something that's around 200knts.

I seem to be able to keep ahead of the Warrior fairly well. Double the speed and I probably would stuggle. Need more experience.
 
I can tell you the factory is in much better shape than 10 years ago. I went there in 2012 & 2013 for condition insp and the place was a shell of its current self. Im sure the V-twin has something to do with that.
 
Ryan Kelley said:
70 knts over the numbers with no flaps... So you kill the speed with attitude? I'm at 70 knots until I know I've made the runway, but with flaps I'm sure it drains the power more efficiently.
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The over the numbers speed is going to depend on the plane and loading. 75kts was my over the numbers speed but my canard stalled at 65kts. So I was on the ground at 70kts. You kill the speed by pulling the throttle.

Ryan Kelley said:
I'm a student pilot still in a Warrior, contemplating my next plane. This one keeps coming up. I'll probably stay in the Warrior for 2-3 years, but the idea of starting a build to have finished in 3 years sounds interesting. I just wonder if this is too big of a jump to make. Maybe I need to go from 112knts to 150knts before I go to something that's around 200knts.

I seem to be able to keep ahead of the Warrior fairly well.
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200kts? That would be an XL-RG. Which means until you get some high performance, retract time, you'll have a hard time getting insurance which doesn't hurt your wallet.

I agree getting some time at 150kts is a good step.
 
A Velocity would be a nice addition to my portfolio... just saying, if any of you Velocity guys are in Texas, hit me up!

Funny thing is, I have one at my airport, but he seems to work on it for months, then go fly it around the pattern for a few minutes, then start working on it again. I don't think anything is wrong with it, he's just one of those guys who likes building more than flying.
 
Lowflynjack said:
Funny thing is, I have one at my airport, but he seems to work on it for months, then go fly it around the pattern for a few minutes, then start working on it again. I don't think anything is wrong with it, he's just one of those guys who likes building more than flying.
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I know that guy - I've had lunch with him many times. It's an interesting story.;)
 
Datadriver said:
I know that guy - I've had lunch with him many times. It's an interesting story.;)
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We used to have two of them. Both were that type of guy, working on them more than flying them.
 
donjohnston said:
The over the numbers speed is going to depend on the plane and loading. 75kts was my over the numbers speed but my canard stalled at 65kts. So I was on the ground at 70kts. You kill the speed by pulling the throttle.


200kts? That would be an XL-RG. Which means until you get some high performance, retract time, you'll have a hard time getting insurance which doesn't hurt your wallet.

I agree getting some time at 150kts is a good step.
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Stalling at 65 and having it at 70 over the number sounds like great flying. I don't even know how fast I'm going when I land the warrior. 70 until I'm at the run way, then just keep straight and hold it off the runway at idle as long as I can. It stalls at 44. The horn sounds once in a while as I'm touching the runway. It's really easy to fly...hard to believe I struggled with landings for a while.

Maybe a good plan would be to buy this kit a year from now. I'll fly the warrior for another year, then step up to something faster for a year or two while I'm building the Velocity. After 4 years, I'll hopefully be done and can find a CFI to train me in it.

Building a plane it right up my alley. I just need to find a suitable location.
 
Ryan Kelley said:
Stalling at 65 and having it at 70 over the number sounds like great flying.
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That's not what I wrote. What I wrote was 75 over the numbers and on the ground at 70. You do NOT want the canard to stall when you are not on the ground. If you're 6' over the runway when that canard stalls, you're going to have a bad day.

Ryan Kelley said:
Maybe a good plan would be to buy this kit a year from now.
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Current reported lead time is 18 months. So get your order in now. :D
 
I was told at OSH that ordering the six place V-twin at the show would maybe get me a plane some time in 2024, probably 2025..
 
Tantalum said:
I was told at OSH that ordering the six place V-twin at the show would maybe get me a plane some time in 2024, probably 2025..
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A plane or a kit?
 
TCABM said:
A plane or a kit?
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I wish a plane, but it was just a kit :( This was for the 6 place twin though, which as of OSH '22 was still not flying. But apparently virtually done, just needing paint, Duane was saying they had planned to fly it to the show. It's already sold and the current owner will be working with Velocity for all the testing, etc. (based on what they told me). They were expecting kits to maybe start sometime in 2023, around Jan.. so by the time my name would be to come in the queue I'd be 2024/2025. This was in talking with Duane Swing, I spent a few hours at the tent. $25K deposit.. was very tempting. I'd find the other $450K sometime between now and 2025! /s
 
Tantalum said:
I wish a plane, but it was just a kit :( This was for the 6 place twin though, which as of OSH '22 was still not flying. But apparently virtually done, just needing paint, Duane was saying they had planned to fly it to the show. It's already sold and the current owner will be working with Velocity for all the testing, etc. (based on what they told me). They were expecting kits to maybe start sometime in 2023, around Jan.. so by the time my name would be to come in the queue I'd be 2024/2025. This was in talking with Duane Swing, I spent a few hours at the tent. $25K deposit.. was very tempting. I'd find the other $450K sometime between now and 2025! /s
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You know what though? 2x O-320s isn’t a bad choice for motors and the airframe was already flying. The V-Twin is probably a lot closer to practical and reality than some of the recent attempts we’ve seen.
 
TCABM said:
You know what though? 2x O-320s isn’t a bad choice for motors and the airframe was already flying. The V-Twin is probably a lot closer to practical and reality than some of the recent attempts we’ve seen.
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Indeed! They had their 4 place twin there with the deltahawk diesels on them. Such a cool spaceship! Here's a few pics, because why not. Whoever owns this bird must be very happy!! I'd go broke buying gas for it I'd be flying so much

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donjohnston said:
That's not what I wrote. What I wrote was 75 over the numbers and on the ground at 70. You do NOT want the canard to stall when you are not on the ground. If you're 6' over the runway when that canard stalls, you're going to have a bad day.


Current reported lead time is 18 months. So get your order in now. :D
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Oh Yeah... My mistake. I suppose this is probably within the range I'm handling the warrior...I doubt I'm much above 50 at the touch down most of the time. I definitely need to start paying attention. If I want to step it up to the next level, I should know what speed I'm bringing it down consistently.

Honestly, I'm as excited about building a plane as I am about flying it. I fly like an old man...not into risk or acrobatics, just a plane to go places safe, fast, and comfortable. I don't know if this is the right plane, but it seems to fit the mold in many ways.

The sales people say these planes are safer because of the spin stall characteristics...yet the statistics don't show this has a great safety advantage vs diamond or cirus. I realized almost all crashes are pilot error. Let me know your thoughts. I will sacrifice 50kts for a plane that forgives my mistakes as a pilot starting at 47 years old. 200kts in an affordable plane is a siren call that's hard to resist.
 
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Ryan Kelley said:
Oh Yeah... My mistake. I suppose this is probably within the range I'm handling the warrior...I doubt I'm much above 50 at the touch down most of the time. I definitely need to start paying attention. If I want to step it up to the next level, I should know what speed I'm bringing it down consistently.
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Yes, when you're coming in that fast, you do not want to carry any additional speed. So knowing your numbers during approach and landing are important. A couple of Velocity's have real AOA indicators. Those guys swear by them.

Ryan Kelley said:
Honestly, I'm as excited about building a plane as I am about flying it. I fly like an old man...not into risk or acrobatics, just a plane to go places safe, fast, and comfortable. I don't know if this is the right plane, but it seems to fit the mold in many ways.

The sales people say these planes are safer because of the spin stall characteristics...yet the statistics don't show this has a great safety advantage vs diamond or cirus. I realized almost all crashes are pilot error. Let me know your thoughts. I will sacrifice 50kts for a plane that forgives my mistakes as a pilot starting at 47 years old. 200kts in an affordable plane is a siren call that's hard to resist.
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TBH, I enjoyed most of the building process as much as flying the plane. But I'm one of those types who like to build things.

The plane is very safe if built and flown properly. IMO, the only advantage over a conventional design is that it can't spin. Depending on weight, with the stick all the way back at idle, it either bobs along going from -500fpm to -100fpm or it just mushes down at -400fpm.

I'm sure there's an accident that can be attributed to the design, but I can't think of any. All are either bad piloting or building practice. Like the guy in NM who flew into known icing and picked up a ton of ice and crashed. But lived. Or the guy who installed two electronic ignition systems with a single electrical system which failed while at 2,000'. Again, occupants both survived.

My build log is still available online here if you want to see what a build is like. I also suggest a trip to Sebastian to see some planes being built and, most importantly, to get a demo ride.
 
That's a nice looking plane. As I get more serious about this, I will definitely go check these out in person. Hopefully they are on display at Oshkosh next year...
 
There's also AeroCad’s AeroCanard, out of Florissant, MO. I like them because there's no center keel and they come in various cockpit sizes
 
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Crashnburn said:
There's also AerCad's AeroCanard, out of Florissant, MO. I like them because there's no center keel and they come in various cockpit sizes
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Yeah, it tends to take up some room. However, if you get a newer Velocity kit, they offer a "cut down keel" meaning it doesn't take as much room.
 
Question to learn: what is the book/POH cross-the-fence speed, and is 65 kts the published Vso? I’m wondering if the 70 short-final speed is the proficient pilot speed? A 70 approach down to 65 stall doesn’t give a lot of margin for error.
 
It's experimental. Every plane is different. Determining speeds is what Phase I Flight Testing is for.

My canard stalled around 65kts (with two people up front). That means I want to be on the ground at 70. So I planned on short final of 75kts and on the ground at 70. With just me, I would knock a couple knots off. Two people, bags, full fuel, I added a couple knots.
 
Datadriver said:
Yeah, it tends to take up some room. However, if you get a newer Velocity kit, they offer a "cut down keel" meaning it doesn't take as much room.
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Nice to know. I'd have a bit of clearance in an XL but the 173 would have to be keel-less.
 
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I have been eagerly following the velocity twin six program, and their Instagram page recently featured a number of posts in it, looks like they're about ready for first flight!
 
Yeah... I have more than a few friends who critique my love of Velocity for the whole $$ reason. If it hadn't been the voice of rationality I very nearly dropped $20K on a deposit last year at OSH
 
That looks great.

How much is it going to be?

And engines, fuel burn, and speed?
 
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