UPS rant

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GaryM

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Gary M
As I've posted here previously, we recently moved to Idaho (yay!). Our old house in NJ is about to sell (yay!).

It's a remote closing, so the attorney in NJ sent us the documents to sign using UPS Overnight, which took two days. After signing and notarization, I took them to our local UPS Store to send them back UPS Overnight. It cost $73. Checking later, USPS Overnight would have been $30, so the UPS Store sucks. Which is only an ancillary point to this rant.

It took two days for the UPS envelope to get back to the attorney's office in NJ. Looking at the tracking timeline, it got from Coeur d'Alene, Idaho to Newark airport in 12 hours. So far, so good. An hour and 20 minutes later, it was at their Parsippany, NJ facility. That's about 4 miles from the attorney's office. Pretty good!

Then it sat in the Parsippany facility, 4 miles from the attorney's office, for 25 hours. While it was sitting in Parsippany, they generated a status update saying that a late flight had caused a delay, and so delivery to the destination will be unavoidably delayed. As if they were going to fly it the last 4 miles. So UPS sucks.

So now I've got to file a claim for a partial refund, and I'm pretty sure UPS will say the flight delay was something out of their hands, so they can't refund, and I'll have to point out that if UPS is going to lie about why a delivery was late, they need to be smarter about it and pretend the flight delay happened the day before, when it would have mattered, not on the second day after the package had already arrived 4 miles from it's destination. So UPS sucks. But I repeat myself.
 
Having to use paper documents for anything these days sucks. A signature is about the most un-secure way of securing anything.
 
EdFred said:
I've gotten refunds painlessly through UPS. Submit it online.
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Did not know this..

Hang 4 said:
Having to use paper documents for anything these days sucks. A signature is about the most un-secure way of securing anything.
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This is changing.. We sold a property in PA last year, and we had to upload our SS card, and a government photo ID, to a product that was like Docusign. Once verified the documents were unlocked for us to sign electronically.

Two years earlier on another property, we had to have them sent, singed here in front of a notary, then sent back..

Between the two, I am more comfortable with the latter..
 
We sold a house long distance - the whole contract - with Docusign via email. When actual settlement needed signatures on myriad papers, the settlement attorney hired a local notary to come to our house with the paperwork (it, evidently, was all overnighted to her). The day after the "actual" settlement, the funds magically appeared in our bank account. No cost to us and the easiest settlement we've ever experienced.
 
The last five or six real estate transactions I have done have been through Dropbox or similar process. All electronically, no notary, funds transferred electronically, and in much less time. Have used this for local as well as long distance transactions. In fact, it was used from initial negotiations to final settlement.
 
Ventucky Red said:
This is changing.. We sold a property in PA last year, and we had to upload our SS card, and a government photo ID, to a product that was like Docusign. Once verified the documents were unlocked for us to sign electronically.
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That wouldn't work for me. I have no idea where my SS card is and haven't for likely 30 years. SS Card is another anachronism in the prove identity world.

Not ranking on your process, more on the what constitutes proof of who you are. I can board a plane base on a retinal scan, but need a notary and an SS card to buy a house.
 
The UPS stores are all a mixed bag. They're franchises. Me and the guy who owns my local one have a good relationship. I was their first customer when they opened.

There's no such thing as USPS overnight. The fastest is Priority Mail Express (which indeed does flat rated envelopes at $30.45), but it doesn't guarantee it sooner than two days (though some destinations indeed get overnight service).

Sending paper around is so 20th century. We tend to docusign everything now.
 
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I once made the mistake of shipping 155lbs of rifle competition gear in two separate cases from Phoenix back to Louisiana back in 2018. It cost $220 via UPS location to get to Phoenix and almost $400 via UPS store on the return. YIKES!

Pro tip told to me by UPS clerk the next year- when shipping a large package that will also be returning to the same city, have them generate the return label at the time you ship it out. Their system interprets it as a shipment originating and arriving in the same city. That cost about $230 to Phoenix and $75 on the return. Makes no sense, she said, but it is the way it is. Who was I to argue.
 
It's been a long time since I've done any remote document signing, but it's always been with either FedEx or Docusign when I didn't need to notarize anything. I don't think I've ever had to rely on UPS or USPS for anything like that. But, I guess it really doesn't matter these days, they all seem to have their problems
 
The law is about to change here (NC) where online notarization is going to be possible.
 
Hang 4 said:
That wouldn't work for me. I have no idea where my SS card is and haven't for likely 30 years. SS Card is another anachronism in the prove identity world.

Not ranking on your process, more on the what constitutes proof of who you are. I can board a plane base on a retinal scan, but need a notary and an SS card to buy a house.
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Boarding a plane and buying real property are two widely different things. Not to physically buy the house if you're paying cash, but to transfer the deed. Just about everywhere I know requires the instrument to do so needs a notary stamp before the county clerk will record the transfer.

However, as I stated, this is changing... like a notary, the people that are bonding your signature are going to want proof of who you are. Try getting something notarized with out a photo ID and a thumbprint.

As for not having your SS card handy... still have my first one.. I made the mistake of laminating it when the new fanged process came out many years ago. Still have the replacement to. :p
 
Ventucky Red said:
Try getting something notarized with out a photo ID and a thumbprint.
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I’ve had a lot of stuff notarized in the last decade, almost half of it just in the last year. No one has ever asked for a thumbprint, just the photo ID.

I did read an online review for a local bank where a customer was all bent out of shape because they wouldn’t notarize at the drive-through. :rolleyes:
 
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Yep, my neighbors are attorneys and notaries. I don't show them anything as they know who I am. They just stamp the forms and write in their expiration date and we're done with it.

Twice we've closed on property without both of us being there. The first time it was me and I had her power of attorney. I got tired of signing "Mrs. FlyingRon by FlyingRon her attorney in fact" over and over again. The second time, I told her it was her turn. Of course, this one was easier as it wasn't financed.
 
GaryM said:
I’ve had a lot of stuff notarized in the last decade, almost half of it just in the last year. No one has ever asked for a thumbprint, just the photo ID.

I did read an online review for a local bank where a customer was all bent out of shape because they wouldn’t nitarize at the drive-through. :rolleyes:
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Must be a California thing..

notaries must obtain a thumbprint for specific documents, including deeds and powers of attorney. This legal framework is designed to enhance the integrity of notarization's and provide a clear audit trail in case of disputes or investigations. If a notary fails to collect a thumbprint when required, they may face penalties, including fines.
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GaryM said:
As I've posted here previously, we recently moved to Idaho (yay!). Our old house in NJ is about to sell (yay!).

It's a remote closing, so the attorney in NJ sent us the documents to sign using UPS Overnight, which took two days. After signing and notarization, I took them to our local UPS Store to send them back UPS Overnight. It cost $73. Checking later, USPS Overnight would have been $30, so the UPS Store sucks. Which is only an ancillary point to this rant.

It took two days for the UPS envelope to get back to the attorney's office in NJ. Looking at the tracking timeline, it got from Coeur d'Alene, Idaho to Newark airport in 12 hours. So far, so good. An hour and 20 minutes later, it was at their Parsippany, NJ facility. That's about 4 miles from the attorney's office. Pretty good!

Then it sat in the Parsippany facility, 4 miles from the attorney's office, for 25 hours. While it was sitting in Parsippany, they generated a status update saying that a late flight had caused a delay, and so delivery to the destination will be unavoidably delayed. As if they were going to fly it the last 4 miles. So UPS sucks.

So now I've got to file a claim for a partial refund, and I'm pretty sure UPS will say the flight delay was something out of their hands, so they can't refund, and I'll have to point out that if UPS is going to lie about why a delivery was late, they need to be smarter about it and pretend the flight delay happened the day before, when it would have mattered, not on the second day after the package had already arrived 4 miles from it's destination. So UPS sucks. But I repeat myself.
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It’s something you kind of have to eat the costs. The costs are going to be sneaked in the closing statement somewhere I’m sure of that.

Go to your bank and get free notary services. Ask for the closing documents a few days in advance. Send it the cheapie way / FedEx I think has $12 rates for 2 day service, take and send photos of the signed docs to title. They should be able to accept that, or you also have the option to use another title company too. Just communicate that to your agent and let him figure it out.
 
Docusign...like what was mentioned above by several people.
https://www.docusign.com/trial/free...N7Xk-F6HhhLeZYlu7pRoCVQoQAvD_BwE&gad_source=1
I have used it several times here lately. Well I didn't use it but it is how I have sold a business and for a few other transactions. I never had to leave my desk and the transaction was quick and easy.
I am surprised someone has you messing around with UPS or USPS for signed documents.
 
Depends on your jurisdiction, some require physical copies that are notarized. You cannot always do everything electronically or on docusign.
 
I hate online contracts with a passion, especially after our recent leasing contract experience. The contract was outdated and included some contradictory things. It involved a lot of "we're not signing this until you fix it or print it up for us to cross out the stuff you say that we're not signing for anyway" before we got them to fix it to reflect what was current - and a whole lot of "I don't care if you don't know how to change it, I'm not signing that I will replace your A/C unit if I don't change the filter every three months, or sooner if necessary, if I'm also signing a note that you will provide the filter (but charge it to me for many times the price necessary for a good filter...ARGH) and those filters will only be provided every three or four months". It would have been extraordinarily simple to have amended the contract if it were paper. It was an absolutely miserable experience trying to get them to find the person who could change it and get that person to actually change it.

I hope and pray that online contracts for everything NEVER becomes reality.
 
SkyChaser said:
I hate online contracts with a passion, especially after our recent leasing contract experience. The contract was outdated and included some contradictory things. It involved a lot of "we're not signing this until you fix it or print it up for us to cross out the stuff you say that we're not signing for anyway" before we got them to fix it to reflect what was current - and a whole lot of "I don't care if you don't know how to change it, I'm not signing that I will replace your A/C unit if I don't change the filter every three months, or sooner if necessary, if I'm also signing a note that you will provide the filter (but charge it to me for many times the price necessary for a good filter...ARGH) and those filters will only be provided every three or four months". It would have been extraordinarily simple to have amended the contract if it were paper. It was an absolutely miserable experience trying to get them to find the person who could change it and get that person to actually change it.

I hope and pray that online contracts for everything NEVER becomes reality.
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Youre probably the first one that's ever actually read the contract and why they didn't know how to change it.
 
Funny you mention NJ. Our local UPS store has garnered a reputation based on their practice of charging $30 for notarizations. The state-mandated maximum is $5.

As noted, they are all franchisees. I'm lucky enough to have an actual UPS service center close enough when I truly need. Most thing I send USPS Priority Mail; Express when needed.
 
Here anyway, UPS is way better than FedEx for delivery, but if I'm shipping I go to FedEx. UPS drivers are union employees, FedEx are at least partly contractors. On the shipping side, here I go to an actual FedEx owned facility to ship, where the UPS stores just rent a UPS logo and they're often not great. BUT....both are way, way better than DHL. DHL can figure out how to make a package from NJ to NY take a week, repeatably.
 
I've used all the delivery services for overnight letters and boxes. ALL of them have had issues at one time or another. If you haven't had at least a delay using any of them then you either don't use them very much or you're extremely lucky.
 
Doc Holliday said:
FedEx is worse.
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Much. Our local FedDex is so famous for deliveries to the wrong address, we've stopped using vendors who ship with them so long as we have an alternative. And we tell the vendors why. My "favorite" (although not the worst) example is one where we never got the package. FedEx's response? "Our records show it was delivered." And would not even consider they were wrong. They even had an Amazon-style photo of the delivery to prove it was delivered.

1723381869762.png
 
donjohnston said:
I've used all the delivery services for overnight letters and boxes. ALL of them have had issues at one time or another. If you haven't had at least a delay using any of them then you either don't use them very much or you're extremely lucky.
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There's a difference between "at one time or another" and taking bets every time on whether you will see your package or not.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Much. Our local FedDex is so famous for deliveries to the wrong address, we've stopped using vendors who ship with them so long as we have an alternative. And we tell the vendors why. My "favorite" (although not the worst) example is one where we never got the package. FedEx's response? "Our records show it was delivered." And would not even consider they were wrong. They even had an Amazon-style photo of the delivery to prove it was delivered.

View attachment 132333
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You changed your front steps?
 
midlifeflyer said:
Much. Our local FedDex is so famous for deliveries to the wrong address, we've stopped using vendors who ship with them so long as we have an alternative. And we tell the vendors why. My "favorite" (although not the worst) example is one where we never got the package. FedEx's response? "Our records show it was delivered." And would not even consider they were wrong.
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Same here. In my case they left a box 1/4 mile from my house in the public road near my mailbox.
 
I removed a RV from in back of the house in the driveway a few months ago. Now all the delivery guys pull into our extra wide drive and turn around behind our home which means all of our packages get put on the back porch under a awning. Love that.

None of them are perfect. I ordered a small envelope from Spruce a few weeks ago. It normally takes 2 days to get here. This time it got sent to Tenn by mistake I'd say. It only took 12 days to get here. By then I got the gasket I needed from my AP mechanic and was flying the plane for a week before the gasket from Spruce showed up. No ones fault except for USPS.
I don't let it bother me.
 
Fedex regularly makes no attempt to deliver and then delays delivery a day because "nobody was home to sign" at our place. I'm wondering if it's just one driver who can't figure out how to find our driveway.
 
I've had things dropped off in the woods by my house (there's a bench there, but it is no where near the house). I've had then note they left it at by "back door." I've got 19 doors in my house. Took me a while to figure out which one they considered the back door. Oddly it was the door to one of the screen porches. Not sure why he chose to leave it there, certainly wasn't the easiest one to get to.
 
flyingron said:
I've had things dropped off in the woods by my house (there's a bench there, but it is no where near the house). I've had then note they left it at by "back door." I've got 19 doors in my house. Took me a while to figure out which one they considered the back door. Oddly it was the door to one of the screen porches. Not sure why he chose to leave it there, certainly wasn't the easiest one to get to.
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The last building I worked in was 13 stories high, had about 1500 people in it, and had a loading dock that could handle 2 trailers at once, and it didn't have 19 doors. Was there a sale on doors? :)
 
We're not 13 stories tall. We ramble over 1 - 3 floors depending on where in the house.

You've got a couple of people doors into the hangar, two screen porches each with a couple of entrances, the front door, the door to the garage, some doors to the back yard, doors to the party deck, etc...
 
all locks keyed different...
 
A life re-evaluation may be in order when one needs to humble brag about the number of doors in their house. Surprised we also didn't find out the name of the installer in any of the the posts about the number of doors.
 
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