Turning base at a towered airport.

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scooter

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Scooter
At a towered airport with the tower open and working, when do you consider it appropriate to turn base from downwind?

- do you wait for the tower to give landing clearance or other instruction to turn base?

- or do you just turn base at a normal point in the pattern even if you have heard nothing specific from the tower, and assume that's what they expect, and that a landing clearance will be forthcoming?
 
If it is a quiet day or I know who is out there I do the second option. If there is a lot of traffic, I ask tower to call my base.
 
scooter said:
At a towered airport with the tower open and working, when do you consider it appropriate to turn base from downwind?

- do you wait for the tower to give landing clearance or other instruction to turn base?

- or do you just turn base at a normal point in the pattern even if you have heard nothing specific from the tower, and assume that's what they expect, and that a landing clearance will be forthcoming?
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Every time I've called a towered airport inbound for landing they'll either tell me to report midfield downwind for the runway if it's not straight in or extended base. Then they clear the landing or tell me they'll call base.
 
Maciej said:
Every time I've called a towered airport inbound for landing they'll either tell me to report midfield downwind for the runway if it's not straight in or extended base. Then they clear the landing or tell me they'll call base.
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:yeahthat:
 
I fly a normal pattern, towered or non-towered. If the controller wants something different, they will tell me, either extend or ask for a close in base.

Once I was still about 4 miles out and tower cleared me to land, I was not on "final" so I planned about a 1/2 mile final. Tower saw this and called, "I need you direct to the runway now!", so direct it is, with about a 30 degree heading change over the numbers, in the flare.
 
See and avoid, even at a towered airport.

Turn base maintaining a reasonable traffic pattern, unless the tower calls your base. Usually, they will have said "cleared to land" by then so the runway and approach is yours.

When you get on the ground call an aviation attorney to make sure you did it right. :rolleyes: ;)
 
Just fly a regular pattern. They'll tell you if they need you to do something else (extend, short approach).
 
I like to have a sequence before turning base, but that means I ask for it. I don't delay base unless there is traffic that demands it.

At my home airport, you can bust a neighboring class D if you extend on your own at an unlucky time.
 
See and avoid is never enough. Good radio technique and proper use is also very important. I was taught to always keep my pattern close in, be able to make the runway from any point in the pattern even if the engine quits. Airliner approaches in small single engine aircraft is asking for trouble even though , thru sloppy instruction, it's done often. Add in that most of what's flying is fourty , fifty,sixty years old , some poorly maintained, it's scary.
 
I once had a tower gripe at me for not calling my own base.
Grand Prairie Texas. He lectured me on "how things work at towered fields".
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I once had a tower gripe at me for not calling my own base.
Grand Prairie Texas. He lectured me on "how things work at towered fields".
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That's when you ask for a phone number and lecture him on how things work on the radio, after you've landed.

Calling your own base might be local procedure, but I've only heard it as a read back.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I once had a tower gripe at me for not calling my own base.
Grand Prairie Texas. He lectured me on "how things work at towered fields".
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Lol! Sounds like a former Army controller. Used to get the base report a lot with them. Even had it as SOP in some areas:

Report all base legs or as directed by ATCT, and type of approach planned (e.g. "Tower, 67J, base, VMC approach").
 
Meh when stuff happens like that, I have this little maneuver I do where I key my mic and flip them off.
 
Unless directed otherwise, I continue the pattern as I normally would, including my base turn. If I haven't received my landing clearance by short final, I ask for it.
 
Fly a normal pattern,unless the tower asks for a turn to the numbers,or instructs you to extend the downwind.
 
Student pilot here, been training at a class D, i've been instructed that if i haven't been cleared to land by midfield on downwind, call tower and report downwind. They'll usually call before that with instructions.
 
scooter said:
At a towered airport with the tower open and working, when do you consider it appropriate to turn base from downwind?

- do you wait for the tower to give landing clearance or other instruction to turn base?

- or do you just turn base at a normal point in the pattern even if you have heard nothing specific from the tower, and assume that's what they expect, and that a landing clearance will be forthcoming?
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You are the PIC, you decide when to turn base, unless the tower says otherwise.
 
Typically fly a standard pattern if you are #1 and cleared to land.

If you want a short approach, ask for it, do not just do it. The tower will be expecting a standard pattern.

If you are #2 or greater, follow your traffic, maintain normal separation.

If asked to extend your downwind and told the controller will call your base, comply. Slow flight so you will not end up too far away if necessary.

Be prepared for whatever instruction you receive from ATC. For instance, just yesterday I was on a left base, just about to turn final when ATC asked me to do a right 270 to maintain separation for landing traffic on the intersecting runway. I guess he mistimed the two of us. No big deal. I complied and when I rolled back out on final, he cleared me to land... again.
 
Wouldn't turn base unless:

A: Cleared to land
B: Told to follow traffic and that traffic was cleared of told to turn
C: Told to turn base

Generally the tower is good at responding but have overheard lots of peopl yelled at for just deciding to turn base on their own without having A, B or C above. That sceario is a common setup for mid-airs.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Wouldn't turn base unless:

A: Cleared to land
B: Told to follow traffic and that traffic was cleared of told to turn
C: Told to turn base

Generally the tower is good at responding but have overheard lots of peopl yelled at for just deciding to turn base on their own without having A, B or C above. That sceario is a common setup for mid-airs.
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Problem is, there is no rule restricting a pilot from turning base (A) on their own. Your tower is yelling at pilots for doing what they're suppose to do. Basically enforcing a technique as a rule...bad.

You don't ask tower for approval to turn crosswind do you?
 
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jimbilly said:
Student pilot here, been training at a class D, i've been instructed that if i haven't been cleared to land by midfield on downwind, call tower and report downwind. They'll usually call before that with instructions.
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I teach my students to always report when they are on the downwind.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Wouldn't turn base unless:

A: Cleared to land
B: Told to follow traffic and that traffic was cleared of told to turn
C: Told to turn base

Generally the tower is good at responding but have overheard lots of peopl yelled at for just deciding to turn base on their own without having A, B or C above. That sceario is a common setup for mid-airs.
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That's weird. Why would tower yell at a pilot for following a normal pattern in scenario A?
 
jimbilly said:
Student pilot here, been training at a class D, i've been instructed that if i haven't been cleared to land by midfield on downwind, call tower and report downwind. They'll usually call before that with instructions.
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I do exactly what jimbilly does. My field is also a class D whose pattern gets pretty hectic and has two parallel runways. On occasion tower has told me to extend my downwind for separation so long that I should have been able to log it as cross country time. (Well, almost.) Had I turned my normal fat dumb and happy base before they called it, they likely would have had me go around and I could expect a little finger wagging once I got on the ground. :nono: They usually clear me by midfield, so if they don't I will call before I chop power. I'm not dictating how anyone here should do it, that is just what I do.
 
champ driver said:
You are the PIC, you decide when to turn base, unless the tower says otherwise.
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Using your PIC authority at a busy towered field could end very badly. I fly out of a very busy Class D with a mix of GA, Training, Helicopters and Jets. If I haven't been cleared to land I DO NOT turn base. Reason being if I haven't been cleared to land it's usually because there is already someone either on final or on the opposite base (they run both patterns when the tower is open). Turning base before either landing clearance is given, or an instruction to turn base puts me at great risk of occupying the same airspace as someone else.

That said, if I'm downwind and pass the numbers and haven't heard "cleared to land", "extend downwind" or some other instruction from the tower I will speak up to make sure they haven't forgotten me in the sequence. That is very rare though.

If the field isn't busy and I get cleared to land before midfield I'll either fly a normal pattern (which is what they expect) or request a short approach if I wanna get down the fun way.
 
Base. Pfff. Real pilots land coming out of a split s.
 
jordane93 said:
That's weird. Why would tower yell at a pilot for following a normal pattern in scenario A?
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Read what you quoted again. He said they got yelled at for turning base WITHOUT any of those things. Scenario A is cleared to land, and they expect you to do just that.
 
Problem with adjusting your pattern own your own because you think your helping the controller is that you don't know their plan. The controller is expecting you to fly a pattern as depicted in the AIM. If you extend downwind because they're busy, well you might be putting yourself in the way of a jet arrival that hasn't even checked in yet. Make a short approach because you think you're helping tower because of traffic following you could put you right up the butt of departing traffic off the runway.

Just let tower modify your pattern as needed. That's why they have "extend downwind, turn base, make short approach" etc, etc. Don't try and read their mind when they're busy, just listen up for your call sign and do what they say.
 
jimbilly said:
Student pilot here, been training at a class D, i've been instructed that if i haven't been cleared to land by midfield on downwind, call tower and report downwind.
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That's probably a bit extreme, as one often gets to pretty close in on final before being cleared to land. However, in the absence of any other instructions, when in the closed pattern, reporting midfield downwind is "standard" unless otherwise instructed. But on the third hand, unless otherwise instructed, you turn base at your own discretion.
 
Standards are different at different venues. Read up on arrival procedures for places you expect to go. If you have any doubt about the reporting points or routes announce to ATC that you're unfamiliar and they'll help you in.
 
Velocity173 said:
Problem with adjusting your pattern own your own because you think your helping the controller is that you don't know their plan. The controller is expecting you to fly a pattern as depicted in the AIM. If you extend downwind because they're busy, well you might be putting yourself in the way of a jet arrival that hasn't even checked in yet. Make a short approach because you think you're helping tower because of traffic following you could put you right up the butt of departing traffic off the runway.

Just let tower modify your pattern as needed. That's why they have "extend downwind, turn base, make short approach" etc, etc. Don't try and read their mind when they're busy, just listen up for your call sign and do what they say.
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I agree, Communication is key, and this is the reason you're supposed to be in 2 way communication in Class D. You should not be deciding to turn base completely at will. If they say cleared to land they are expecting a normal pattern. If they haven't said anything to you it's in everyones best interest for you to query the tower before making a turn.

You kinda touched on it, but for those who aren't familiar with IFR procedures it's normal for an IFR arrival to be talking to approach all the way onto final. The tower knows they are coming, but you wont hear them on frequency until they get handed off, and usually all you'll hear is their check in and a cleared to land from the tower. If it's a jet on a straight in they can go from out of visual range to mid air collision in the time of your base leg.
 
StinkBug said:
I agree, Communication is key, and this is the reason you're supposed to be in 2 way communication in Class D. You should not be deciding to turn base completely at will. If they say cleared to land they are expecting a normal pattern. If they haven't said anything to you it's in everyones best interest for you to query the tower before making a turn.

You kinda touched on it, but for those who aren't familiar with IFR procedures it's normal for an IFR arrival to be talking to approach all the way onto final. The tower knows they are coming, but you wont hear them on frequency until they get handed off, and usually all you'll hear is their check in and a cleared to land from the tower. If it's a jet on a straight in they can go from out of visual range to mid air collision in the time of your base leg.
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Jet or J-3, if the controller wants you to follow someone, it's their responsibility to tell you.
 
Yes, it absolutely is. The problem is if you decide to make a turn without telling the tower before they get a chance to tell you to follow you put yourself right into their path.

Moral to the story is to communicate what your intentions are.
 
I fly from towered airports about 1/2 of the time and I say, fly the pattern unless told otherwise. This has worked for me at KOLM, KTIW, KBFI, KSLE, KPAE, PAMR, KGRF and others. If they want you to extend or shorten a leg, they will tell you.

If you think you will have a conflict, ask.
 
jordane93 said:
That's weird. Why would tower yell at a pilot for following a normal pattern in scenario A?
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Maybe I wasn't clear... If cleared to land then it would be OK.

Where I've heard people get into trouble is if they're told on contacting the tower to enter a downwind and then without further instruction they just decide on their own to turn base. They just assumed they were good but in reality weren't paying attending and just cut-off someone coming in on a straight in final.
 
StinkBug said:
Yes, it absolutely is. The problem is if you decide to make a turn without telling the tower before they get a chance to tell you to follow you put yourself right into their path.

Moral to the story is to communicate what your intentions are.
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You've told them your intentions on initial callup when you said you intend to land. From then on you enter and fly a normal pattern to the landing runway unless told otherwise. If the Tower needs to adjust sequencing, they will tell you what to do. Lacking any such guidance, you make your turns as you would for any landing without a tower. The only thing you need from the Tower before touching down is a clearance to land. You don't need additional clearances for making turns unless specifically told otherwise. If there's a question on spacing or sequence, ask.
 
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