TruTrak & Bendix King

I thought they were just business partners or something. Sold to BKHoneywell? That seems bad.
 
Now you can get the well known support of BK with their pricing and dealer network for your TruTrak autopilot.
 
bnt83 said:
I thought they were just business partners or something. Sold to BKHoneywell? That seems bad.
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Maybe not for the TruTrak owners/shareholders. ;)

Probably not bad for the TruTrak customers either. What else does BK Honeywell have in the AP market for GA? The KFC-225, is anyone still buying that? And the KFC-230 AeroCruze, which Sarasota Avionics shows as "Price and availability not yet known."

Maybe this is a good acquisition. BK will get an AP that is selling, people that obviously know how to build and AP, and the customers will get better support.
 
wayne said:
Maybe not for the TruTrak owners/shareholders. ;)

Probably not bad for the TruTrak customers either. What else does BK Honeywell have in the AP market for GA? The KFC-225, is anyone still buying that? And the KFC-230 AeroCruze, which Sarasota Avionics shows as "Price and availability not yet known."

Maybe this is a good acquisition. BK will get an AP that is selling, people that obviously know how to build and AP, and the customers will get better support.
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Or will TruTrak be more like BK? You know? The corporate culture, drive for innovation, and politics that bought BK to where it is now?
 
bnt83 said:
Or will TruTrak be more like BK? You know? The corporate culture, drive for innovation, and politics that bought BK to where it is now?
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I work in tech, the number of times I can remember where a lumbering behemoth company bought a nimble startup and the behemoth actually took on the aspects of the nimble startup I can count on one hand, with 4 fingers and a thumb left over. And I'm changing jobs now for exactly that reason... again.

Also, "Sure, we'll leave everyone in Company_X alone to keep doing what they do best" typically lasts about a year.
 
chartbundle said:
I work in tech, the number of times I can remember where a lumbering behemoth company bought a nimble startup and the behemoth actually took on the aspects of the nimble startup I can count on one hand, with 4 fingers and a thumb left over. And I'm changing jobs now for exactly that reason... again.

Also, "Sure, we'll leave everyone in Company_X alone to keep doing what they do best" typically lasts about a year.
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I watched a video on their facebook page, its like going to a young man's funeral.
 
Andrew is taking a beating on TTs facebook page....... Watched the vid. He sounds defeated. Almost like he was backed into a corner. Pretty clear based on his tone and inflection that he dd not want to do this. There IS a backstory to it for sure.
 
Just an attempt by BK trying to catch up to the big boys.
 
The Aerocruz IS a trutrack AP with a different bezel. Makes sense for BK to buy them. Sad to see 'em go. Hoping the best for Trio but GA is a tough place to be regardless.
 
Unit74 said:
Andrew is taking a beating on TTs facebook page....... Watched the vid. He sounds defeated. Almost like he was backed into a corner. Pretty clear based on his tone and inflection that he dd not want to do this. There IS a backstory to it for sure.
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Often the private equity financing behind a company is looking for a liquidity event. Money talks, and they call the shots.

wheaties said:
The Aerocruz IS a trutrack AP with a different bezel. Makes sense for BK to buy them. Sad to see 'em go. Hoping the best for Trio but GA is a tough place to be regardless.
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:yeahthat:
 
Talked to “Freddie” today in the BK booth at Oshkosh, he assured us that with major backing of BK things would happen much quicker for TT and for sure you would get better customer support. And he mention the pricing would remain the same. Gave us the line that BK was trying to win back the GA confidence. I fear a good product just got gobbled up by corporate politics.
 
Mooneys R Quicker said:
Talked to “Freddie” today in the BK booth at Oshkosh, he assured us that with major backing of BK things would happen much quicker for TT and for sure you would get better customer support. And he mention the pricing would remain the same. Gave us the line that BK was trying to win back the GA confidence. I fear a good product just got gobbled up by corporate politics.
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Was Freddie’s nose growing as he spoke?
 
Trio's model of deposit commitments for STCs is probably the reason they are going to be able to stick around. Also, being centered in a huge GA market helps too.
 
Mooneys R Quicker said:
Talked to “Freddie” today in the BK booth at Oshkosh, he assured us that with major backing of BK things would happen much quicker for TT and for sure you would get better customer support. And he mention the pricing would remain the same. Gave us the line that BK was trying to win back the GA confidence. I fear a good product just got gobbled up by corporate politics.
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Olathe, where good aviation products go to die.
 
I suspect Freddie wasn’t lying. Just naive, maybe. B-K is like my dog with a squirrel he’s caught. He doesn’t MEAN to kill it. It just happens, he can’t help himself.
 
N1120A said:
Trio's model of deposit commitments for STCs is probably the reason they are going to be able to stick around. Also, being centered in a huge GA market helps too.
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Talked to the guys at Trio also about an auto pilot for the Mooney and he told us it wasn’t even on the horizon because the Mooney community will not pony up the dollars for the research.So, the way I took that conversation was an auto pilot for the Mooney’s isn’t gonna happen. First we started out talking to the sales people then they got the Trio engineer over to talk to us, so this info came straight from Trios engineer.
 
I feel like if the messaging was that TruTrak had bought the "general aviation assets" of BK, even if the structure of the deal was identical, that it would have been way better received. I can only imagine what sort of echo chamber the BK people live in, where they think their brand is anything but kryptonite.
 
chartbundle said:
Probably referring to this train-wreck thread over on MooneySpace.
Basically Trio's STC group tried to justify the price and the Mooney owners laughed and laughed...

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/28661-trio-pro-pilot-for-m20-mooneys/?do=findComment&comment=475619
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Interesting. I own a mooney, but I didn’t happen to log on to mooney space in the day and a half he participated in that thread - I never even saw it. I think that’s an extremely poor way to judge interest in your product. Pity. Just about every short body mooney owner I know is interested in an autopilot.
 
Trio is a part time outfit.not sure I’d want to invest $10k in something that may or may not be here in a few years. I originally decided I wanted the Trio for my Lance. But, Trutrak is/was a better long term bet at that time. I’m still on the TT train, but really irritated Barker sold out to BK. Our only hope is they run it as a subsidiary and not BK corporate.
 
WannFly said:
That’s the end of TT as we know it
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Where was “the sky is falling” consternation when Garmin…

Acquired UPS Aviation to enter the ADS-B (Capstone project and UAT) and also launching their panel mount WAAS GPS market with the CNX 80?
Acquired Delorme to enter the personal satellite tracker market?
Acquired Navionics to enter the worldwide marine navigational chart market?
Acquired Dynastream Innovations to enter the personal (fitness) tracking / monitoring market?
Acquired Nautical Marine systems to enter the marine autopilot market?
Acquired Trigent AB to enter the “Smart Boat” and “Smart RV (Recreational Vehicle) market?
Acquired FltPlan to include FltPlan’s IP into their EFB products?

Of the above sampling which items became, “That’s the end of (fill in the blank) as we know it”?

Companies acquire other companies all the time and life continues to go on. Sometimes the consumer wins, sometimes they lose.
 
Axtel4 said:
Where was “the sky is falling” consternation when Garmin…

Acquired UPS Aviation to enter the ADS-B (Capstone project and UAT) and also launching their panel mount WAAS GPS market with the CNX 80?
Acquired Delorme to enter the personal satellite tracker market?
Acquired Navionics to enter the worldwide marine navigational chart market?
Acquired Dynastream Innovations to enter the personal (fitness) tracking / monitoring market?
Acquired Nautical Marine systems to enter the marine autopilot market?
Acquired Trigent AB to enter the “Smart Boat” and “Smart RV (Recreational Vehicle) market?
Acquired FltPlan to include FltPlan’s IP into their EFB products?

Of the above sampling which items became, “That’s the end of (fill in the blank) as we know it”?

Companies acquire other companies all the time and life continues to go on. Sometimes the consumer wins, sometimes they lose.
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Nobody gives a sh about those.....
 
Of course, Garmin produces worthwhile products for the GA market, so them gobbling up other companies is not quite so concerning. B-K is a bit of a joke for anything GA. I just can't see anyone actually buying something from them if they had any other option.
 
Mooneys R Quicker said:
Talked to the guys at Trio also about an auto pilot for the Mooney and he told us it wasn’t even on the horizon because the Mooney community will not pony up the dollars for the research.So, the way I took that conversation was an auto pilot for the Mooney’s isn’t gonna happen. First we started out talking to the sales people then they got the Trio engineer over to talk to us, so this info came straight from Trios engineer.
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The Grumman folks have had a lot more success working with Trio. They did a deal for a $300 down for 25 AA5 family aircraft and that was the basis for the STC. Now the AA1 drivers are getting it for $300 or $350 for 15.
 
I bought a plane a year ago and put aside the cash for a TT autopilot and was told it would be next month for the Mooney STC they had applied for to be approved. They have been essentially saying next month ever since. Then it was discovered that they haven’t actually applied for the STC like they claimed. This is what I read so I don’t know for sure that it’s true.

It’s bad for a product to be delayed but things happen. When deceit is involved, it is a whole different issue.

Sounds like maybe King and TT deserve each other.

At this point, going to a GFC500 will require a G5 and an additional actuator making for a massively more expensive solution. Double installed TT price at best,

Very frustrating!
 
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My C182 just finished getting a TT installed last week. I've also got a G5,GTN650 combo and experiencing some issues getting the GTN to talk to the TT. Can I now assume Garmin integration will get dropped?
 
182Flyer said:
My C182 just finished getting a TT installed last week. I've also got a G5,GTN650 combo and experiencing some issues getting the GTN to talk to the TT. Can I now assume Garmin integration will get dropped?
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Nope. You paid for a feature set. I'm sure TT will deliver on the promise.
 
Unit74 said:
Trio is a part time outfit.not sure I’d want to invest $10k in something that may or may not be here in a few years. I originally decided I wanted the Trio for my Lance. But, Trutrak is/was a better long term bet at that time. I’m still on the TT train, but really irritated Barker sold out to BK. Our only hope is they run it as a subsidiary and not BK corporate.
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The acquisition makes perfect sense imo. The name of the game is integration now...not a bunch of independent boxes that don't work together. Isn't that one of the big reasons Garmin has such appeal?

TT clearly didn't have the financial depth or development funding to achieve this (the Mooney STC history should be sufficient evidence of that). Even Avidyne hasn't been able to keep up and develop anything close to the suite of integrated GA avionics products Garmin has.

Honeywell/BK is probably the only company out there with the financial capability to have any chance of competing with Garmin given where the GA avionics market is headed. Time will tell if BK is truly committed to compete in this market though - beyond solid product development/improvement, they clearly have an uphill slog reputationally.

MBDiagMan said:
I bought a plane a year ago and put aside the cash for a TT autopilot and was told it would be next month for the Mooney STC they had applied for to be approved. They have been essentially saying next month ever since. Then it was discovered that they haven’t actually applied for the STC like they claimed. This is what I read so I don’t know for sure that it’s true.

It’s bad for a product to be delayed but things happen. When deceit is involved, it is a whole different issue.

Sounds like maybe King and TT deserve each other.

At this point, going to a GFC500 will require a G5 and an additional actuator making for a massively more expensive solution. Double installed TT price at best,

Very frustrating!
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Given the TT history you described above, I would think the chances of a Mooney STC for the TT autopilot (which is what you want) just went up with the BK purchase.

If Mooney owners (at least those that own the most popular legacy models) don't get that, it says something about BK's oft repeated commitment to GA.
 
Axtel4 said:
Where was “the sky is falling” consternation when Garmin…

Acquired UPS Aviation to enter the ADS-B (Capstone project and UAT) and also launching their panel mount WAAS GPS market with the CNX 80?
Acquired Delorme to enter the personal satellite tracker market?
Acquired Navionics to enter the worldwide marine navigational chart market?
Acquired Dynastream Innovations to enter the personal (fitness) tracking / monitoring market?
Acquired Nautical Marine systems to enter the marine autopilot market?
Acquired Trigent AB to enter the “Smart Boat” and “Smart RV (Recreational Vehicle) market?
Acquired FltPlan to include FltPlan’s IP into their EFB products?

Of the above sampling which items became, “That’s the end of (fill in the blank) as we know it”?
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Nobody minded any of those acquisitions because Garmin made them all better and they all made Garmin better and Garmin is DELIVERING new products based on those technologies.

Bendix-King, meanwhile, hasn't done anything worthwhile in the market for the last 20 years, continually announces products that they didn't develop and never ship, **** on their longtime dealer network, and have basically done everything exactly the opposite of a company that takes the market seriously and intends to innovate.

Garmin is where ideas go to thrive. King is where they go to die. Without Honeywell, King would have died long ago, and nobody would have cared. Just like Narco.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Nobody minded any of those acquisitions because Garmin made them all better and they all made Garmin better and Garmin is DELIVERING new products based on those technologies.

Bendix-King, meanwhile, hasn't done anything worthwhile in the market for the last 20 years, continually announces products that they didn't develop and never ship, **** on their longtime dealer network, and have basically done everything exactly the opposite of a company that takes the market seriously and intends to innovate.

Garmin is where ideas go to thrive. King is where they go to die. Without Honeywell, King would have died long ago, and nobody would have cared. Just like Narco.
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No argument. But an extrapolation of that ad infinitum may not prove correct. It would be helpful for light GA to have a solid competitor to Garmin imo. I don't see any prospect of that outside of a change to a serious effort by Honeywell/BK. Might be wishful thinking, but the market needs a serious competitor.
 
GRG55 said:
It would be helpful for light GA to have a solid competitor to Garmin imo. I don't see any prospect of that outside of a change to a serious effort by Honeywell/BK. Might be wishful thinking, but the market needs a serious competitor.
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Absolutely... But Garmin does have competition on a product-by-product basis. The G3X Touch was made available to certified aircraft, thus undercutting Garmin's own G500 TXi, because of Dynon. Hopefully Avidyne will put enough pressure on Garmin in the navigators that whatever replaces the GTNs will be a bit more compatible than it was last time (which was not at all). PS Engineering sure gives Garmin a run for their money when it comes to audio panels, and the only reason I have a Garmin is that I can talk to my GTN with it.

But yeah, there isn't a solid all-in-one competitor to Garmin. It seems like B-K is trying to do that, but simply rebranding others' hardware isn't going to do it... And they have to learn how to ship a product, and now they need to completely rebuild their dealer network as well. It's going to be a long time, if ever, before BK is anything more than a laughingstock.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
But yeah, there isn't a solid all-in-one competitor to Garmin. It seems like B-K is trying to do that, but simply rebranding others' hardware isn't going to do it... And they have to learn how to ship a product, and now they need to completely rebuild their dealer network as well. It's going to be a long time, if ever, before BK is anything more than a laughingstock.
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Serious question: What is necessary to become a Garmin, Aspen, or BK dealer? I figured any avionics shop could source any of the products and read an installation manual. Not the case?
 
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