Transponder on altitude reporting while on ground

C

CrimsonFlyer

Pre-Flight
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
83
Location
Silicon Valley
Display Name
Display name:
CrimsonFlyer
I rent and always find the transponder set to "standby" by the previous renter. Is this a common practice? I thought FAA SAFO 15006 made it clear about setting transponders to altitude reporting on movement areas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
AIM has said to have it on ALT unless otherwise instructed for years.
 
After much arguing on the forum the last time this turned up, if your transponder has a ground mode (the Garmin 330 and related) has them. The thing WILL respond to ASDE-X without further intervention on your part.

In fact, I know this to be true because at IAD when I don't bother to touch the transponder, ground calls and asks me to please squawk something other than 1200.

Yep, if you have an older KT-76 or the like without automatic modes, you're going to need to turn it on to mode C.
 
CrimsonFlyer said:
I rent and always find the transponder set to "standby" by the previous renter. Is this a common practice? I thought FAA SAFO 15006 made it clear about setting transponders to altitude reporting on movement areas.
Click to expand...

It IS clear. Now. But it used to actually be the common procedure to go to standby when off the runway. Was probably in the AIM that way too. Then the FAA did a 180 and changed the procedure.

So if someone has been flying a while, and only has the minimal required periodic training (flight review), they may not know. And since that procedure is something that only happens once per flight, even if the instructor did point it out on the flight review, chances are high it will be forgotten the next time they fly.

I've even still seen it in flight school airplane checklists, obviously made by someone who didn't know the new procedure - or even probably more accurate, they downloaded it from the internet, then just added the flight school logo.
 
Actually, there is a reason to turn it to standby at an airport without ground surveillance.

Ever get TIS alerts from taxiing aircraft while in the pattern? They suck.
 
MAKG1 said:
Actually, there is a reason to turn it to standby at an airport without ground surveillance.

Ever get TIS alerts from taxiing aircraft while in the pattern? They suck.
Click to expand...

I was reading the GTX345 Pilots Guide this AM and it stops traffic alerts below 500 feet. Maybe there might be a software upgrade your equipment doesn't have yet?
 
bnt83 said:
I was reading the GTX345 Pilots Guide this AM and it stops traffic alerts below 500 feet. Maybe there might be a software upgrade your equipment doesn't have yet?
Click to expand...

Most patterns are above 500 feet.

Though I've seen GTN650s with ADSB alert for landing traffic while at the hold short line.
 
My Modes C is always on STBY until I take the active
Common courtesy for us old guys
 
MAKG1 said:
Most patterns are above 500 feet.

Though I've seen GTN650s with ADSB alert for landing traffic while at the hold short line.
Click to expand...

The way I read the GTX345 manual, if you are below 500 feet it will not issue traffic alerts. No idea if intended to be standard across all the GTX transponders through software revisions or not.


"To minimize nuisance alerts, the traffic alerting sensitivity adapts based on altitude above ground level. No aural alerts are given below 500 feet."
 
Last edited:
I think some of it might come from habits of old days, too. When your generator is sucking your battery down until you get up to power, it's convenient to keep everything unnecessary off.
 
Mine goes to ground mode on the ground and below XX airspeed, I'm not changing it.

Also not a fan of sending data when I legally don't have to. Add to that I have seen targets which were just on the ground before.
 
There is also the issue for the SFRA that you must use the code they give you any time your inside the SFRA so unless you call and get a code before you start the engine you won't have a good code.
 
In 1974, My CFI taught me to leave the transponder on standby until I was ready to roll onto the runway. Therefore this is the one true way to do this. If the FAA claims otherwise, they are wrong.

[/sarcasm]
 
I recently attended a FAST meeting at KSMX and the tower boss asked pilots to leave their transponders on standby until ready to take off.
It had to do with the particular kind of radar KSMX has.
I do not recall the particulars because it seemed like a simple enough request despite the 2012 change in the AIM.
The avionics shop that installed my transponder recommended that all of the avionics be off and the alternator off while starting or shutting down the engine.
 
CrimsonFlyer said:
..on movement areas.
Click to expand...

I think that's the big thing. When I was renting, the checklist said to turn the transponder to standby on the engine shut-down portion. It would absolutely make sense for you to get in and see it set there, since the aircraft is likely parked in a non-movement area.
 
Why can't people accept that the guidance has changed within the past few years? Yes, in the old days we were supposed to run transponders in STBY on the ground but not any more.
 
Vance Breese said:
...the 2012 change in the AIM...
Click to expand...

BTW, I have a 2013 copy of the AIM, and the explanation of changes section confirms that you're right about the effective date of this change.
 
MAKG1 said:
Actually, there is a reason to turn it to standby at an airport without ground surveillance.

Ever get TIS alerts from taxiing aircraft while in the pattern? They suck.
Click to expand...

I am surprised you passed the Form 5 check ride since 2012..:nono:
 
Everskyward said:
Why can't people accept that the guidance has changed within the past few years? Yes, in the old days we were supposed to run transponders in STBY on the ground but not any more.
Click to expand...

The most valid answer I've seen is that most GA airports don't have the type of equipment that benefits from leaving it on, and it is said to create a distraction issue (= safety issue). :dunno:
 
Palmpilot said:
The most valid answer I've seen is that most GA airports don't have the type of equipment that benefits from leaving it on, and it is said to create a distraction issue (= safety issue). :dunno:
Click to expand...
Anecdotally, I have never been asked to turn the transponder to STBY while taxiing, however I have been asked to turn it on more than a few times (that was before the guidance appeared in the AIM and we added it to the checklist).
 
Shouldn't it of OFF when you shut down? Maybe doesn't matter if you have an avionics master.
 
Palmpilot said:
BTW, I have a 2013 copy of the AIM, and the explanation of changes section confirms that you're right about the effective date of this change.
Click to expand...

AIM isn't regulatory.

If it were a real saftey issue itd be a FAR.
 
jtheune said:
There is also the issue for the SFRA that you must use the code they give you any time your inside the SFRA so unless you call and get a code before you start the engine you won't have a good code.
Click to expand...

I'm based in the SFRA at a towered field (KHEF - Manassas Regional) and start engines all the time with the previous flight's code and it's a non-issue. Taking off with the wrong code is a different story.
 
tsts4 said:
I'm based in the SFRA at a towered field (KHEF - Manassas Regional) and start engines all the time with the previous flight's code and it's a non-issue. Taking off with the wrong code is a different story.
Click to expand...

As long as you're on the ground and squawking something OTHER than 1200 (and outside the FRZ) you're not going to have a problem.
 
This is actually news to me… I was taught years ago that the transponder was to be set to standby when on the ground, and only set to ALT before takeoff. The checklists at the flight school where I rent also show that (apparently outdated) procedure.

But, I also took a few years off from flying between the time when I first got my ratings and these more modern days. A few notable changes took place during my absence: we now have plastic certificates that still lack a picture; we now "line up and wait", because someone got confused by "position and hold"; and evidently we now leave our transponders turned on at all times.
 
Vance Breese said:
I recently attended a FAST meeting at KSMX and the tower boss asked pilots to leave their transponders on standby until ready to take off.

It had to do with the particular kind of radar KSMX has.
Click to expand...


And not a single pilot in the room asked when the NOTAM would be issued, or the request would be put on the ATIS, until this standing request was added to the comments in the A/FD????

Facepalm. FAASTeam meetings are great. They're not an official flight information source.
 
We have a small airport with a University flight program that teaches transponder on,
Not alt on the ground. Every time I fly overhead in the company airplanes I get a aural
TCAS warning for traffic. If they would turn it to ALT I wouldn't get anything, which is the way I like it in the terminal area.
Dave
 
d.grimm said:
We have a small airport with a University flight program that teaches transponder on,
Not alt on the ground. Every time I fly overhead in the company airplanes I get a aural
TCAS warning for traffic. If they would turn it to ALT I wouldn't get anything, which is the way I like it in the terminal area.
Dave
Click to expand...


:confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
FastEddieB said:
And Anti-Authority is a hazardous attitude.
Click to expand...


Originally Posted by N801BH
I am surprised you passed the Form 5 check ride since 2012..:nono:



It's perfectly legit to exercise PIC authority, unless you're unaware.

Which is exactly why I asked MAKG how he passed the Form 5 check ride since the CAP are hell bent on following the book, any book...... To the T...:idea:
 
d.grimm said:
We have a small airport with a University flight program that teaches transponder on,

Not alt on the ground. Every time I fly overhead in the company airplanes I get a aural

TCAS warning for traffic. If they would turn it to ALT I wouldn't get anything, which is the way I like it in the terminal area.

Dave
Click to expand...


Or if the company upgraded yours to a system that was designed properly? It's not like ground level is a secret.

Are *your* limited/dumb/old avionics really *their* problem?
 
FastEddieB said:
Agreed. Just go with the flow.

The resistance to doing it as clearly recommended always leaves me perplexed.
Click to expand...



"That's the way we've always done it" is a hard habit to break.

I see targets from time to time that I know are on the ground when I'm flying. It's no big deal and not hard to figure out if you're aware of your surroundings and keep up with ground elevation.
 
Everskyward said:
Anecdotally, I have never been asked to turn the transponder to STBY while taxiing, however I have been asked to turn it on more than a few times (that was before the guidance appeared in the AIM and we added it to the checklist).
Click to expand...

The only person who has asked me to set it to standby while taxiing is an instructor who has experienced the distraction of false traffic alerts. I don't know why ATC would make such a request.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top