Tr#mp TFR bust

I'm pretty sure there was another one today. I'm just north of Morristown, KMMU, and at 10:40 am something blasted over my house that sure wasn't a business jet.
 
It wasn't me!

I was planning to fly my Hatz to N72 (1/2 mile inside the TFR) this weekend, was pretty PO'd when I did an outlook briefing Thursday night.
 
What does the angle of attack on an F15 look like when it is flying along side a 172.
 
Seems like a lot of fuel for something one could do more effectively with a Blackhawk.
 
DFH65 said:
What does the angle of attack on an F15 look like when it is flying along side a 172.
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Impressive. I watched a pretty mis-matched set of aircraft (F16s to WWII vintage propeller aircraft including I think a P51) practicing formation flight near Pima-Davis Monthan AFB in Tucson when I was there for a meeting in late February. The F16s look pretty sloppy at the prop plane speeds. The A10s are fun to watch, too. They look fun to fly low and slow. BTW, the Pima Air Museum there is pretty awesome, with some unique specimens on display.
 
DFH65 said:
What does the angle of attack on an F15 look like when it is flying along side a 172.
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This is not an F-15, but it might look something like this (except the pilot probably won't be saluting):

Interception Photo.jpg

The above photo was taken from a CAP 182 on an interception exercise near the northern end of the Sacramento Valley.
 
Tr#mp

So now we can't even spell out the name of the president? :rolleyes:
 
Apparently was not just a minor clip. Rammed right through the center. Someone had the flight track on fb but was taken down
 
I once watched an F-15 intercept a Stearman that busted a TFR. He was seriously nose high, and doing an amazing job of hanging back with the biplane. The -15 took a lot longer than I’d expect to pull ahead and circle around.

I’m just happy that the TFRs are in place. They do a great job of protecting the President from...nobody really knows what. I assume Ryder trucks are also banned?
 
Arnold said:
Seems like a lot of fuel for something one could do more effectively with a Blackhawk.
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I don't think the Blackhawk can do more than about 200 knots or so. Good luck catching up to a Baron or 310 in that. Meantime not much that can outrun an Eagle or Viper.
 
Watching a jet fly at that angle of attack in slow speed is....painful :)
 
I kind of wonder what happens to the pilot. Do they lose their license temporarily? Fine? Jail?
 
Post 9-11 supposedly there was a J-3 on floats trying to sneak out of Surfside seaplane base.:rolleyes:
 
nrpetersen said:
Post 9-11 supposedly there was a J-3 on floats trying to sneak out of Surfside seaplane base.
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I know zippy about seaplanes and the regs associated with them. But if a seaplane base is under a TFR... maybe right on the edge, but the seaplane is water taxiing until it is no longer under the TFR, is that a bust?
 
I got a call one year that showed up as "AMOC" on my caller ID. They were chasing down someone who departed my airport during the TFR for the Democratic National Convention (this was 2012 and the president was in attendance). Turns out it wasn't the pilot's fault as the idiots moved the effective time of the TFR up minutes after he got his briefing where he specifically asked to confirm the TFR start time. Fortunately, he bugged out of the TFR area as soon as it popped up on his XMWeather display. By the time he reached his destination (Triple Tree flyin), they were looking for him.
The HSA promptly cleared him of any wrongdoing, unfortunately the bastards at the FAA strung him out for several months before begrudgingly admitting that short of calling flight circus from inside the aircraft, there's no way he could have known about the change in time.

I don't know about TFRs, but I've seen pilots hunted down for busting the supersized P-40 at times and things were not so pleasant for them.
 
Deelee said:
I know zippy about seaplanes and the regs associated with them. But if a seaplane base is under a TFR... maybe right on the edge, but the seaplane is water taxiing until it is no longer under the TFR, is that a bust?
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"All aircraft operations within the [...] area(s) listed above, [...] are prohibited except for..."
I do believe that taxiing with intent to fly is "operating".
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
"All aircraft operations within the [...] area(s) listed above, [...] are prohibited except for..."
I do believe that taxiing with intent to fly is "operating".
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Was there another dock he could have taxied to and tied up at that was outside the TFR?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I do believe that taxiing with intent to fly is "operating".
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Palmpilot said:
Was there another dock he could have taxied to and tied up at that was outside the TFR?
Click to expand...

Ah, ok. Yes, so maybe he was less taxiing, than out for a brief pleasure cruise and his destination happened to be a dock outside the TFR. Then he ties up there, gets out, gets a quick snack, then starts back up and takes off. Bust or no bust?

Better yet - what is the most bizarre, edge-case scenario we can collectively think up for not busting a TFR, but still doing something (not 'operating') under the TFR?
 
Does bizarre sea pane story from the 80's count? It involves LGA, the marine air terminal and fence scaling to catch a flight.
 
Deelee said:
Ah, ok. Yes, so maybe he was less taxiing, than out for a brief pleasure cruise and his destination happened to be a dock outside the TFR. Then he ties up there, gets out, gets a quick snack, then starts back up and takes off. Bust or no bust?

Better yet - what is the most bizarre, edge-case scenario we can collectively think up for not busting a TFR, but still doing something (not 'operating') under the TFR?
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Starting up a land airplane and taxiing it from one ramp to another, followed by shutting it down and securing it, are not considered "operating" by the FAA under its definition of the term. I'm not an attorney, but it seems to me that the same principle should apply to a sea plane.
 
This isn't an edge case, but when the Secret Service held a pilot briefing in Bedminster soon after the presidential TFRs and TFR busts started in NJ, we were told that taxiing under the TFR was fine, if you needed to get somewhere on the airport for maintenance or fuel or whatever. But, thanks to the airborne radar that follows the President, "If your wheels leave the ground, we'll know it." The latter comment was in response to a lot of first-year busts at several of the airports in the TFR where pattern altitude was underneath normal radar coverage, and pilots thought they could do pattern work without being detected--because they didn't yet know about the airborne radar.
 
Deelee said:
Better yet - what is the most bizarre, edge-case scenario we can collectively think up for not busting a TFR, but still doing something (not 'operating') under the TFR?
Click to expand...
You can't do flight training, but I believe you can re-position the airplane (and student?). Can you commence "flight training" once you are outside the ring of death? Or do you have to land somewhere else first? And, if you have to land; do you shut down, stop and go, or touch and go?
 
In many cases, you can move on the ground, but you'd be well advised to make sure your transponder (and/or ADSB out) is disabled when doing so or they may still come inquiring.
 
Deelee said:
I know zippy about seaplanes and the regs associated with them. But if a seaplane base is under a TFR... maybe right on the edge, but the seaplane is water taxiing until it is no longer under the TFR, is that a bust?
Click to expand...

I don't know about sea plane regs, but in Alaska the sea planes used to taxi out of the Class E into Class G and then take off. The resident feds didn't seem to care. But that was pre 9/11.
 
Cool video. Huge waste of my money. TFRs for this kind of crap needs to go away. One of the benefits of having presidents instead of Kings is they are replaceable.



before anyone gets their panties in a wad. It’s a joke. If it offends you then get over yourself. There is no right to not be offended.:cornut:


The part about shooting the president is a joke. The TFR part well... that is a waste of money.
 
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