Time between filing and flying

Country Flier

Country Flier

Cleared for Takeoff
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Another post here got me thinking…Someone or somewhere I was told to file AT LEAST 30 minutes before picking up my IFR clearance (obviously not talking about a pop up clearance). I seem to remember that whenever you file, there needs to be time for your flight plan to work its way into the system…and I’ve always done it this way.
But now I’m wondering if this is really true. Do you need to wait, or is this an OWT like waiting 30 minutes after eating to swim? What’s the soonest you’ve picked up a clearance after filing?
 
The only related 30 minutes I’m aware of is that they get the strip with your clearance not sooner than 30 minutes before your ETD. Like @RyanB, I’ve filed and picked up my clearance 10 minutes later if within that 30 minute time frame.
 
I’ve been taxiiing out, when someone forgot to file so I hit the button & took off vfr, got clearance airborne in minutes.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The only related 30 minutes I’m aware of is that they get the strip with your clearance not sooner than 30 minutes before your ETD. Like @RyanB, I’ve filed and picked up my clearance 10 minutes later if within that 30 minute time frame.
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I believe the 30 minute rule is from years past. In the age of electronic everything, flight plans are transferred to ATC immediately.
 
I've filed on ForeFlight, waited the 30 seconds or so to get the message pop up that the plan had been accepted, jotted down the expected route, and called Clearance Delivery to pick it up. All within a couple of minutes.
 
Rheo said:
I've filed on ForeFlight, waited the 30 seconds or so to get the message pop up that the plan had been accepted, jotted down the expected route, and called Clearance Delivery to pick it up. All within a couple of minutes.
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This, exactly!
 
Rheo said:
I've filed on ForeFlight, waited the 30 seconds or so to get the message pop up that the plan had been accepted, jotted down the expected route, and called Clearance Delivery to pick it up. All within a couple of minutes.
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This. I usually file with Fltplan.com but sometimes Foreflight. As soon as I get the "filed" notification, the clearance is available from the appropriate CD. Usually within 60-90 seconds.

When I was flying in Alaska, I'd sometimes forget to file or have to re-file after a delay while on the ramp with pax aboard. ANC Center would have my clearance within 60-90 seconds as well.
 
I've sort of been testing this just to see how the system works. I only file on Foreflight, so other options may be different. So far, I've narrowed it down to about 2 minutes.
 
RyanB said:
I believe the 30 minute rule is from years past. In the age of electronic everything, flight plans are transferred to ATC immediately.
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That’s what I was starting to believe, hence why I asked!
 
I called for clearance from the hold short of an uncontrolled field. They couldn't find my flight plan (I had tried to file through Garmin pilot). While on the phone with the controller, I opened up the leidos site, filed, and it popped up on his end within about 3s of me pushing the button. I suppose it's possible the first plan just happened to go through then, but it seems more likely that they go through that fast.

The thirty minute number probably originates from the fact that that's how long the controlling facility gets your flight plan before your edt.
 
Yeah, I think the 30 min was the analog days.
Back when you chiseled the flight plan to stone and it was carried to OKC by camel.
 
RyanB said:
I believe the 30 minute rule is from years past. In the age of electronic everything, flight plans are transferred to ATC immediately.
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Perhaps some controllers can talk about it but I’m not talking about when the Center computer has it (immediately - been that way at least since DUAT), but when the the facility which will issue the clearance to the pilot has them displayed for easy access. The last I’ve heard, this is still the case.

IOW, I don’t think the flight plan I filed today for a flight tomorrow is sitting there in front of the TRACON or Tower controller right now. No, I am not saying you have to file 30 minutes before. If you file 5 minutes before, you are within the 30 minute window and the facility will have it immediately.
 
In Canada, when you file with less than 30 minutes notice, a pop up comes up saying “departure is in under 30 minutes, are you sure this is correct” or something in that realm. You can simply click “yes” and still file. I’ve filed as little as 10 minutes before departure and ATC had my flight plan. But, I’ve also had it where i filed less than 30 minutes before departure and ATC told me they didn’t have my flight plan yet so i guess it’s hit and miss.
 
midlifeflyer said:
but when the the facility which will issue the clearance to the pilot has them displayed for easy access. The last I’ve heard, this is still the case.
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From an article written by a controller:

Remember, flight plans print out of the system 30 minutes before the proposed departure time. If you call ATC before those 30 minutes, they’ll not likely have your flight plan in hand, so they ask the proposed departure time. As long as it’s within 24 hours and the system has acknowledged your flight plan, we can dig it up.​
 
ForeFlight seems to default to 10-15 minutes for the departure time. And like others, a couple minutes at most seems to be adequate today.

Believe that if you file at 08:00 for a 10:00 departure ATC won’t get the flight plan until 09:30. And then it will be available for another 90 minutes or something like that.
 
The other day tower didn’t have my clearance. Likely because I forgot to push file :eek: So I sent it from my phone. Tower called back a few seconds later asking if I was ready to copy.
 
If its 0800Z and you file for a proposed departure at 1200Z the flight plan will immediately be stored in ERAM for the enroute center that overlies your departure airport. At 1130Z a flight progress strip will print at the sector which overlies your departure airport. If you call for clearance at 1100Z, controllers will have access to your flight plan in ERAM, but will not have a strip yet, so will need to request one, which is a minor inconvenience.

Please keep in mind this is the enroute perspective, but I believe it also applies to terminal facilities not using electronic flight strip transfer system (EFSTS). I'm not familiar with that system at all. When I left, only ATL & CLT had EFSTS, but more terminal facilities were scheduled to transition to that system.

Finally, if you're running behind and you call for clearance at 1500Z, your flight plan will likely have been dropped out of the system, since most facilities use a two-hour proposed flight plan drop interval.
 
The IFR 30 minutes (4 hrs if abv FL230) filing is an AIM recommendation on the old domestic (7233-1) flight plans. That’s never been a mandatory thing. Just gives ATC planning time.

Your flight plan is in the system almost immediately after filing so you can still get your clearance within the 30 minute timeframe. Requesting a clearance hours before 30 min ETD is possible as well but might be a slight delay. Your FP doesn't show up on the ATC side until 30 minutes prior to ETD. That just isn’t for planning, but also the simple fact that if all the flight plans showed up immediately after filing, their strip board would be over flowing. They can still access your FP by doing a flight plan readout (FR) on your callsign or tail number. When it pops up, they can either amend (AM) the departure time to less than 30 mins or just do a strip request (SR) to push the system to print immediately. They can also do a departure message (DM) on you that'll both print and activate the flight plan.
 
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As others have said, it’s almost immediate these days. Things have changed since back when the Captain would be out in the King Air with the passengers loaded and the right engine running, while I was calling for a void time clearance from Flight Service on the pay phone. :)
 
Dave Theisen said:
As others have said, it’s almost immediate these days. Things have changed since back when the Captain would be out in the King Air with the passengers loaded and the right engine running, while I was calling for a void time clearance from Flight Service on the pay phone. :)
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Did they at least reimburse you for your dime?

Could you call flight service collect? :biggrin:
 
it's almost instantaneous anymore, i've filed while talking to atc to get my clearance and it popped up amost as soon as i pushed submit
 
Jim K said:
I called for clearance from the hold short of an uncontrolled field. They couldn't find my flight plan (I had tried to file through Garmin pilot). While on the phone with the controller, I opened up the leidos site, filed, and it popped up on his end within about 3s of me pushing the button. I suppose it's possible the first plan just happened to go through then, but it seems more likely that they go through that fast.

The thirty minute number probably originates from the fact that that's how long the controlling facility gets your flight plan before your edt.
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Same. Have filed (re-filed) from the hold short. It's quick.
 
midlifeflyer said:
From an article written by a controller:

Remember, flight plans print out of the system 30 minutes before the proposed departure time. If you call ATC before those 30 minutes, they’ll not likely have your flight plan in hand, so they ask the proposed departure time. As long as it’s within 24 hours and the system has acknowledged your flight plan, we can dig it up.​
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But if you do that during the Southwest morning push at Hobby, they will be really annoyed.

:dunno:
 
Not always available, but if you have your own plane and use Foreflight, you can register for pre-departure clearance (PDC) and when you file it will send you a text and load it in Foreflight for you. Tales less than a minute usually. Worth checking out.
 
It will be great when ForeFlight also has cdplc too.
 
RyanB said:
I believe the 30 minute rule is from years past. In the age of electronic everything, flight plans are transferred to ATC immediately.
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They may be but they don’t print out until 30 minutes prior to your proposed departure time. Pro tip, when you call clearance delivery for your clearance, tell them your proposed departure time. Because if you file and expect your clearance within 15 minutes, the computer will assume its already printed out and not print a flight strip. This way they will be more prone to look for it if it’s less than 30 minutes.

You can also ask ATC to amend your departure time if you want to go earlier. If your flight plan is in the system, we can do a lot to it, if not, we can’t do anything until it is.
 
jbarrass said:
Not always available, but if you have your own plane and use Foreflight, you can register for pre-departure clearance (PDC) and when you file it will send you a text and load it in Foreflight for you. Tales less than a minute usually. Worth checking out.
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Works great at the about 3 dozen airports which currently have PDC capability (mostly B's and Cs). It's the actual clearance, not an "expected" one.

Just a small clarification on this thread drift.
If you have your own airplane, you don't need ForeFlight.​
If you have Foreflight (need Performance Plus), you don't need your own plane.​
 
midlifeflyer said:
Works great at the about 3 dozen airports which currently have PDC capability (mostly B's and Cs). It's the actual clearance, not an "expected" one.

Just a small clarification on this thread drift.
If you have your own airplane, you don't need ForeFlight.​
If you have Foreflight (need Performance Plus), you don't need your own plane.​
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And to add more

It’s one pilot per N number, you don’t actually need to be the owner.

You don’t need to have ForeFlight. The text is useful, and yes, it’s the actual clearance.

But with ForeFlight it can auto load, and with the right interface, load into a GTN. No typing.
 
jbarrass said:
It’s one pilot per N number, you don’t actually need to be the owner.
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Depends.

In the “normal” PDC world, PDC capability is associated with an aircraft, no matter who is flying it.

Doing it through ForeFlight, the PDC can be associated with a ForeFlight Callsign. That callsign is associated with the ForeFlight subscriber and can be used in multiple aircraft, whether owned, leased, rented, borrowed, so long as you use the callsign for filing and can put the callsign in the transponder.
 
I have needed a pop up but tire of answering the onslaught of questions by ATC so if I have cell service I file with Foreflight in the air and pick it up right away.
 
This discussion brings up the question of is there any advantage of filing prior to startup/pre-flight? (Planning yes, I'm talking about pushing the actual filing button) Seems waiting until I'm ready to engine start or during pre-flight gives best estimate for time of departure. Maybe file before engine start just in case there are ground holds in place (would that even show up in expected routing/filed notifications?)
 
Tokirbymd said:
This discussion brings up the question of is there any advantage of filing prior to startup/pre-flight? (Planning yes, I'm talking about pushing the actual filing button) Seems waiting until I'm ready to engine start or during pre-flight gives best estimate for time of departure. Maybe file before engine start just in case there are ground holds in place (would that even show up in expected routing/filed notifications?)
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You say that as if the estimated departure time needs to be accurate within a minute or two. I think it doesn't.
 
File, use bathroom one last time, start up/taxi out. Seems to work just fine.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
But if you do that during the Southwest morning push at Hobby, they will be really annoyed.

:dunno:
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Do large airports even have a dedicated CD guy anymore??
Most (all?) airliners I know of have the clearance printed out via PDC.
 
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