Thinking About a Tornado Shelter/Safe Room

[Ted]

It's worked for tractors and boats.

While we were in the basement waiting for a storm with tornadoes to pass (we saw one out the window about 10 miles from our house), we were discussing our plans to finish out the basement, which included the theater room. Laurie had the idea that we make the theater room a tornado shelter. That way at least we can watch The Wizard of Oz while riding out tornadoes or having our house blown down. Plus the extra strength would likely also help with sound insulation, appropriate for a home theater.

I liked the idea. I read through the FEMA guidance and construction plans, which mostly make sense. Curious if anyone else has done this and how they've gone about it.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

We don't get basements down here so you have to buy a pre-fab safe room. They bolt then to the slab or bury them.

The theater the other hand... I've built 4 and they can be a lot off fun to make.

 

[Ted]

Well, Brian with a Y, I'm open to the theater room ideas too!

 

[Matthew]

I was driving home last night when the tornado warnings came over the radio for the tornado that was spotted near Paola/Louisburg.

My buddy is a general contractor and just finished building his own house. He put a shelter room in his basement but said it doesn't qualify as an official "tornado shelter". I didn't know there were certain codes for that, but I guess you can get an insurance discount if it's "official". I don't know what FEMA suggests, though.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

My setup (I am not an audiophile or video expert) I did this on the cheap and I have a really nice (IMO) HD theater. I am sure there are folks that can tell that its not bose or whatever high end stuff but its pretty stinkin cool for about the same price as a nice HD TV.

1080p Projector
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-HD20-Theater-Projector-Version/dp/B002G0CWSU

2 Pair of in-wall speakers
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4104

In-wall center channel
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=6317

Add the tuner of your choice

I got rid of the windows by sawing off the window sills and mounting drywall over them. I taped and covered w/ Mud and sanded it smooth. Framed it with wood trim and painted it a neutral grey color.

I built the riser so the back couch could see over the front one

I removed the closet in the back of the room and left a nook so I could put the equipment back there and not need to open a closet door to get to it.
Added a mini fridge of course.

The picture is about 125 inches and makes a good platform for flight sim

 

[Ted]

I was driving home last night when the tornado warnings came over the radio for the tornado that was spotted near Paola/Louisburg.

My buddy is a general contractor and just finished building his own house. He put a shelter room in his basement but said it doesn't qualify as an official "tornado shelter". I didn't know there were certain codes for that, but I guess you can get an insurance discount if it's "official". I don't know what FEMA suggests, though.

Yep, that was the tornado we saw out our back windows. I was afraid I'd need to drive the tractor out of my living room if it hit our house. Tractor would be fine, but the house might not appreciate the tractor going through the roof.

There are codes and guidelines as I discovered last night. I can say for sure that we won't build to the code exactly as that would be a huge effort and cost, but I'm thinking well use the wall/ceiling codes for the theater room.

I hadn't realized you were here as well. We'll have to get together sometime.

 

[Matthew]

Yep, that was the tornado we saw out our back windows. I was afraid I'd need to drive the tractor out of my living room if it hit our house. Tractor would be fine, but the house might not appreciate the tractor going through the roof.

There are codes and guidelines as I discovered last night. I can say for sure that we won't build to the code exactly as that would be a huge effort and cost, but I'm thinking well use the wall/ceiling codes for the theater room.

I hadn't realized you were here as well. We'll have to get together sometime.

Yeah, I'm here (in Olathe). I didn't realize YOU were here!

I'll be seeing my buddy tomorrow night and can ask him about specific codes. The ones I've seen are generally about 8x8 or so. Probably they require a reinforced concrete ceiling, among other things. But keep away from windows, gas lines, water heater, and don't be immediately below the kitchen refrigerator (in case it falls through the floor), and you might be good.

 

[ahkahn]

My setup (I am not an audiophile or video expert) I did this on the cheap and I have a really nice (IMO) HD theater. I am sure there are folks that can tell that its not bose or whatever high end stuff but its pretty stinkin cool for about the same price as a nice HD TV.

1080p Projector
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-HD20-Theater-Projector-Version/dp/B002G0CWSU

2 Pair of in-wall speakers
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4104

In-wall center channel
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=6317

Add the tuner of your choice

I got rid of the windows by sawing off the window sills and mounting drywall over them. I taped and covered w/ Mud and sanded it smooth. Framed it with wood trim and painted it a neutral grey color.

I built the riser so the back couch could see over the front one

I removed the closet in the back of the room and left a nook so I could put the equipment back there and not need to open a closet door to get to it.
Added a mini fridge of course.

The picture is about 125 inches and makes a good platform for flight sim

Very nice setup, Bryan! I've got my theater room on the short list to redo. It was last done in 1997 by a guy I think may have been a bookie. There are a lot of TV's. Elvis would be proud (if you've ever been to Graceland, you'd understand).

 

[Zeldman]

Man.... and I was entertaining the thought of moving to Kansas...

 

[Clark1961]

Man.... and I was entertaining the thought of moving to Kansas...

Kansas is sorta okay, just don't live in a trailer park.

And then there is Greensburg where I lived for a couple years...well before the storm. Anyway, reinforced concrete structures seem to do quite well in 'naders.

 

[Norman]

Kansas is sorta okay, just don't live in a trailer park.

Tornadoes home in on those places.

 

[Matthew]

They are called "tornado magnets".

 

[txflyer]

I don't think I would bother with an above ground safe room in Kansas.

They get F-5's out there that can pull up a foundation.

 

[Ted]

I don't think I would bother with an above ground safe room in Kansas.

They get F-5's out there that can pull up a foundation.

And that's why the codes are what they are, because they're a "worst case" set of codes for a safe room that can handle the worst tornadoes, hurricanes, etc. Of course, the codes DO allow for above ground safe rooms.

It ultimately comes down to risk/benefit. It surprised me that none of the houses we looked at here had any sort of true tornado shelter. We'll get about 90% of it. Oh, and then have to run a separate router because of the metal in the walls.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

no risk of flooding down there?....in the basement.

 

[Ted]

no risk of flooding down there?....in the basement.

That's why some choose an above-ground.

Our basement is a walk-out and our property has a slight slope to it. So, we're not worried about floods as much.

 

[Sac Arrow]

This is the best sell job for a man cave I've ever seen.

 

[Matthew]

I don't think I would bother with an above ground safe room in Kansas.

They get F-5's out there that can pull up a foundation.

An EF5 did this to an above ground shelter:
http://archive.news-leader.com/article/20110602/NEWS01/106020364/Hard-lesson-saves-family

I've only seen hardened shelters in a couple of new houses. Most of us have a concrete basement and have a preferred corner. My buddy built his room under his concrete porch (I'm pretty sure), but doesn't have a door on it. He built a concrete wall attached to the foundation and built it in such a way you walk around a corner to get in. He figures that will prevent anything from blowing in directly. I might be over at his place tomorrow night, maybe I'll peek at it again.

 

[Matthew]

no risk of flooding down there?....in the basement.

Not really, it isn't like a hurricane with a storm surge.

If your basement doesn't flood in a multi inch thunderstorm, a tornado isn't going to flood it unless the power to your sump pump fails and you get a couple inches of water down there.

 

[paflyer]

We don't get basements down here....

Why is that? Always wondered why south and west houses (not southeast with the high water tables) don't have basements.

 

[denverpilot]

Meh. Watch the radar and drive out of the way if it's tracking at you. No point in hunkering down for something you can tell is coming and is rarely more than 1/2 mile wide. Just leave.

 

[N801BH]

My setup (I am not an audiophile or video expert) I did this on the cheap and I have a really nice (IMO) HD theater. I am sure there are folks that can tell that its not bose or whatever high end stuff but its pretty stinkin cool for about the same price as a nice HD TV.

1080p Projector
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-HD20-Theater-Projector-Version/dp/B002G0CWSU

2 Pair of in-wall speakers
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4104

In-wall center channel
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=6317

Add the tuner of your choice

I got rid of the windows by sawing off the window sills and mounting drywall over them. I taped and covered w/ Mud and sanded it smooth. Framed it with wood trim and painted it a neutral grey color.

I built the riser so the back couch could see over the front one

I removed the closet in the back of the room and left a nook so I could put the equipment back there and not need to open a closet door to get to it.
Added a mini fridge of course.

The picture is about 125 inches and makes a good platform for flight sim

You do realize that windows in residential structures are considered "egress" and cannot be covered up..... Especially upstairs rooms....

If you are going to live there for a while then you are not going to get caught... When you go to sell, then the windows have to be returned to their previous condition...

 

[overdrive148]

Take the two hour long storm spotter training classes provided (for free ninety-nine) by the National Weather Service next season (early 2016). I did the basic and advanced and it was really interesting. Couple that with the stormspotter app for radar and rotation, NWS severe weather products, and news outlets and you're set for most stuff

Planning on a weather radio for next season as well. And being ready to move to a real shelter instead of a corner of my apartment like last season to boot. Not a single shelter in these apartments

 

[denverpilot]

You do realize that windows in residential structures are considered "egress" and cannot be covered up..... Especially upstairs rooms....

If you are going to live there for a while then you are not going to get caught... When you go to sell, then the windows have to be returned to their previous condition...

Around here a theater room isn't required to have window egress in a basement, only bedrooms that may be "occupied/lived in" at night. Neither is a home office required to have an egress window.

(Whether smart or not, is a different story than what the rulebooks from the 'crats want.)

Old construction is grandfathered but as soon as you touch a basement bedroom to remodel it, egress window has to be dug in and added.

A single door for the entire basement is also considered adequate in most jurisdictions here, so a walk out basement can have no windows anywhere and still be legal. (Again not necessarily smart.)

 

[Zeldman]

Kansas is sorta okay, just don't live in a trailer park..

Well shoot. I was looking at a 1969 single wide with a big screen Tv, sat dish, 12 hounds under the porch and 14 disabled vehicles in the yard.... Guess I'll look into houses with a basement instead...

 

[flyingron]

I hunker down in the wine cellar.

 

[timwinters]

We don't get basements down here...

Why is that?

Expansive soils. Over time, repeated swell/shrink cycles can crush a basement...or at least crack the hell out of it...

 

[Lindberg]

We don't get basements down here so you have to buy a pre-fab safe room. They bolt then to the slab or bury them.

The theater the other hand... I've built 4 and they can be a lot off fun to make.

Actually, some of us do have basements. We are currently building a house with a basement and a safe room. We started with the FEMA guide, but there are actually folks who specialize in such things. The walls were all poured with the basement, with appropriate reinforcement to the beams under the floor. The tops of the walls in the safe room were formed with a "shelf" and embedded J bolts to receive and secure the steel ceiling. I put a water closet and sink in ours so we can comfortable stay in it all night when we get our big spring storms.

Ours is different than yours would be, since ours is being built with the house. But it isn't something I would want add on myself. There's got to be specialists in your area who could recommend the best way to retrofit.

 

[Lindberg]

Expansive soils. Over time, repeated swell/shrink cycles can crush a basement...or at least crack the hell out of it...

It was explained to me that there aren't many basements down here because they aren't necessary to get below the frost line, so it's usually an unnecessary expense. But there are some houses with them, including some from as far back as the '30s, and they're somewhat popular now in new construction.

 

[txflyer]

If I were going to spend the money on anything I would go ahead and try to get one of those pre-fab egg shell shaped CBRN underground shelters that covers all the calamities in the book.

You dig the hole, they deliver and set it in and you do the hookups and backfill.

The poor boy way to do it is use the huge galvanized round culverts big enough you can stand up in them. They make nuke shelters out of them because their round shape takes compression well. Also, you can direct backfill bury them because of the round shape. You don't need any reinforcing.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

what?

 

[Matthew]

Meh - just move into one of the decommissioned Minuteman silos scattered all over around here.

 

[Ted]

Ours is different than yours would be, since ours is being built with the house. But it isn't something I would want add on myself. There's got to be specialists in your area who could recommend the best way to retrofit.

In our case, we're building a room in the basement anyway, and the idea makes sense in our area to add some safety/security. So it will be a theater room, not just a dedicated safe room. The extra benefit is that the added insulation provided by building the safe room will also help the home theater aspects, so I think if you're going to make a multi-purpose room into a safe room, that is a logical choice.

I'll plan on following the schedules for materials and strength, but may not follow the exact dimensions. I went down and measured the area we're planning on. It would meet the width requirements at about 11'6", but the depth would be a consideration as 14' would make a pretty shallow theater room. 20' is more in line with what we were thinking. So, we may make it a bit bigger.

I was also looking at ceiling height. Although the ceilings in the basement are 9', the area we're looking at has a steel beam running through the middle that would take it down to 8'. Then subtract about 1' for the 2x10s that would be required for the ceiling, 2 layers of 3/4" plywood, and 1/2" drywall, and now you have a 7' ceiling height. That would still work, albeit be a bit short. But it would also mean that if we did a raised section, I wouldn't be able to stand up.

 

[weilke]

To harden it enough to survive a twister, it will require a pretty solid ceiling (steel or reinforced concrete). You will find that it will be cost prohibitive to do for a home theater.

I used to have a home with a small shelter room in the basement. Poured concrete walls, steel door and steel ceiling welded to I-beams bolted into the concrete. It doubled as saferoom, gun storage and reloading bench. If you want to have entertainment in the shelter, just hook up an extra TV, DVD player and a UPS. The few times we had tornado warnings or severe storms that had a risk of a cloaked twister, they were over in an hour or two. Unless your concern is the zombie apocalypse, a purge or periods of prolonged civil unrest, setting up your shelter with overnight sleeping accomodations is overkill.

 

[NoHeat]

Oklahoma could use a lot of big shelters. It's probably the worst place in the country for twisters, but most schools lack a safe place.

 

[Lawreston]

I'm up here in the northeast - rarely the type of storms discussed in this thread - but I almost live in a storm shelter re my studio which is the first level(basement/entertainment room/studio).
The hill on which I live, 3/4 from the top, is a huge ledge under the trees. Tons of ledge had to be blasted before foundation could be poured in 1997. The floor on which I'm sitting(studio), at its back wall, is between 10 and 12 feet lower than ground level under my back(upside-east) deck. The north and south foundation walls are similarly "sided" with ledge varied by the pitch of the hill.
Driveway and main entrance are on the lower level. So far, I've had built (1) or personally built (2) stone walls, all supplies having come from piles of the left-
overs from blasting; I'm still harvesting more from the ground around the 1½ acres in the trees. The studio seems so tight that AM radio is difficult to receive unless local stations; and cell phone reception (signals) are poor.

The aerial shot is from 2014; 2nd shot is from 2007 before I bought the house; 3rd shot is the latest batch of stuff I've muscled from the piles for the newest wall. 4th shot is also from 2007 pre-buy. Very little "lawn," as such. I recently planting some lupines. There only about 12-14" of soil in which to plant. Under that, solid ledge. A lot of the blasted ledge was used in the landscaping back in 2007. So, here I sit in my quasi storm shelter. My neighbor, a bit down the hill from picture #4, says we're on an earthquake fault line. A few year ago he was taking up a carpet in his basement. He was surprised to see a diagonal crack all across his concrete floor and on a diagonal that comes straight down from where I'm sitting. No earthquakes since I've been here(June 2007).
RE THE PICTURES: Right click and open in a new window. One is a LARGE file.

 

[SkyHog]

How many tornadoes do you get in Ohio? Can't imagine it is enough to justify the expense...

 

[Ted]

How many tornadoes do you get in Ohio? Can't imagine it is enough to justify the expense...

You're not very observant today, Nick.

Hint: take a close look at my location.

 

[Ted]

To harden it enough to survive a twister, it will require a pretty solid ceiling (steel or reinforced concrete). You will find that it will be cost prohibitive to do for a home theater.

I used to have a home with a small shelter room in the basement. Poured concrete walls, steel door and steel ceiling welded to I-beams bolted into the concrete. It doubled as saferoom, gun storage and reloading bench. If you want to have entertainment in the shelter, just hook up an extra TV, DVD player and a UPS. The few times we had tornado warnings or severe storms that had a risk of a cloaked twister, they were over in an hour or two. Unless your concern is the zombie apocalypse, a purge or periods of prolonged civil unrest, setting up your shelter with overnight sleeping accomodations is overkill.

The FEMA guidelines allow for wood construction which is not cost prohibitive, just more expensive. Obviously a twister could throw my tractor through the shelter and we're done. At some point, it's just not your day.

 

[Lindberg]

It's important that the ceiling be strong, in case something lands on it, but also not part of the structure of the house, in case the house is gone. Typical basement construction will get you through with some luck, but you'll see plenty of post-tornado pictures of caved in basements, some with cars in them.

Our shelter is probably overkill for the storms we get down here, but from my perspective, that's the only way to build one. We'll have storms that last the night, work the sirens going off several times. And we have a neighbor whose house was smashed by a giant tree typed by straight-line winds. Had it fallen a foot from where it did, it would have killed someone in their sleep.

So big storms == sleep downstairs.