Thinking About a Tornado Shelter/Safe Room

Exactly. We'd basically be looking at building a room that's fully independent, other than the cement floor (foundation). It could get blown away, but probably not. I think that will be a good compromise. We need to figure out location and specifics. The 7' ceiling in the theater room would be a negative, but we might put it in a different part of the basement or eliminate the raised floor for the 2nd row. We could also make a different room the safe room, but the theater room seems the best option.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Exactly. We'd basically be looking at building a room that's fully independent, other than the cement floor (foundation). It could get blown away, but probably not. I think that will be a good compromise. We need to figure out location and specifics. The 7' ceiling in the theater room would be a negative, but we might put it in a different part of the basement or eliminate the raised floor for the 2nd row. We could also make a different room the safe room, but the theater room seems the best option.
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Get it back to an 8' ceiling by anchoring the beam to the foundation of the safe room. Not that tough to do and it may be able to carry the load of that tractor or any other random load...
 
Clark1961 said:
Get it back to an 8' ceiling by anchoring the beam to the foundation of the safe room. Not that tough to do and it may be able to carry the load of that tractor or any other random load...
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The problem is the 1' steel beam that we can't get rid of as it supports the house. Plus, as has been said, a safe room is specifically not supposed to be attached to the basement roof structure.
 
You guys from Kansas are scarin' the pants offa me. I am looking at a business opportunity there.
 
Tornadoes are like being hit by falling sheep:

You can ignore/accept the risk and go your whole life without incident.

Or you can take sensible precautions and be just fine in the small chance that something happens.

Or you can prep for doomsday only to find out that it's simply your time.
 
Zeldman said:
You guys from Kansas are scarin' the pants offa me. I am looking at a business opportunity there.
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Ted is just looking out for his family. Kansas isn't that bad and there is usually lots of warning on the storms.

With that said, a town I used to live in did "go away" one dark and stormy night. It's really unusual though. The small town/big prarie theory does work.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The problem is the 1' steel beam that we can't get rid of as it supports the house. Plus, as has been said, a safe room is specifically not supposed to be attached to the basement roof structure.
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Maybe it's time to adapt the rules to your setting. I know that if I've got steel and concrete I can make the steel stay where I want it to stay.
 
Clark1961 said:
Ted is just looking out for his family. Kansas isn't that bad and there is usually lots of warning on the storms.

With that said, a town I used to live in did "go away" one dark and stormy night. It's really unusual though. The small town/big prarie theory does work.
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There are occasional monsters: Greensburg and Joplin are examples.

This pic is claimed to be from Joplin:

tornado-damage.jpg
 
Zeldman said:
You guys from Kansas are scarin' the pants offa me. I am looking at a business opportunity there.
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My stereotype of Kansas growing up in New York City was that tornadoes send Dorothy to Oz every year and destroy everything. We know that's not true and it's pretty unlikely that you'll get hit by a tornado, as evidenced by the 100 year old barn on our property and outbuilding that I'm guessing is circa 1970s.

Since we are looking at building the theater room anyway, having it multi-purpose seems like a logical thing to do for not much extra money. I wouldn't be spending the money to build/buy one otherwise. I'd instead spend my money on more logical purchases like a 2-ton dump truck.
 
so....other than just building a theater room in your basement, what will be different to make it a "shelter/safe" room?

Are you planning to have concrete reinforced walls?.....reinforced room roof?....vault door?

I have fantasies of burring a steel shipping container and building a tunnel from my basement to it....obviously it could make for a great theater room too. :goofy: :rofl:
 
I gave a few abstract bits, but if you do a Google and get the FEMA documents, you can see the codes. Scroll to the build plans and it gives you options for wood or concrete.
 
denverpilot said:
Meh. Watch the radar and drive out of the way if it's tracking at you. No point in hunkering down for something you can tell is coming and is rarely more than 1/2 mile wide. Just leave.
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Doesn't help you when it's 1am, and you're woken up by the tornado sirens 60 seconds before the tornado hits . . . :rolleyes2:. If it's 3pm and you're up and around, fine, hopefully the terrain allows you to spot it before you paint yourself in a corner.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
My stereotype of Kansas growing up in New York City was that tornadoes send Dorothy to Oz every year and destroy everything. We know that's not true and it's pretty unlikely that you'll get hit by a tornado, as evidenced by the 100 year old barn on our property and outbuilding that I'm guessing is circa 1970s.

Since we are looking at building the theater room anyway, having it multi-purpose seems like a logical thing to do for not much extra money. I wouldn't be spending the money to build/buy one otherwise. I'd instead spend my money on more logical purchases like a 2-ton dump truck.
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Lol, well I've lived in Oklahoma my entire life and have never seen a tornado, they generally like to hop around a lot. There have been some within 10-15 miles, but almost all have been little more than enough to remove a few roofs. I wouldn't want to use a basement in OK unless it had a heavily reinforced ceiling. Nothing like having 2 stories of house ending up in the basement where you were seeking shelter. Now, if I were building a new house, having a safe room built under the staircase or a basement with the proper reinforcements would definitely be a consideration, simply because it adds a lot of functional living space when not being used for tornado precautions.

There is a cement-walled storm cellar built into the wrap around porch on my house, but I rarely go down there and I wouldn't leave my dry house to go outside in the wind/rain/hail to hide in the musty cellar. I'll take my chances in the bathroom underneath the stairs.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My setup (I am not an audiophile or video expert) I did this on the cheap and I have a really nice (IMO) HD theater. I am sure there are folks that can tell that its not bose or whatever high end stuff but its pretty stinkin cool for about the same price as a nice HD TV.
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Looks pretty good. You don't want Bose for home theater stuff anyway, so you made out good on that! I built a similar setup for the parent's theater room, and it came out well, too. 1080P Sony Projector, 7.1 surround with Klipsch towers/center channel up front, in-walls for the sides/rear, and sub in the back behind the 3-tiered risers we built for the reclining theater seats. Pretty simple on installation, all running off of a Pioneer Elite AVR in the air conditioned closet (along with the rest of the peripherals on the rack). Not high-end audiophile by any means, but 100" of HD picture and some decent speakers have impressed everyone who has viewed it.

Luckily we were able to prep it when the house was being built, and were able to run the speaker wire and HDMI over the ceiling as well as having the closet with an A/C vent to keep everything cool. There is one window behind the screen, but some dark window tint and a piece of foam cut to fit the opening blocks out all light. If they ever wanted to convert it to a bedroom, they simply pull out the foam form and it's a bedroom to code.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
My stereotype of Kansas growing up in New York City was that tornadoes send Dorothy to Oz every year and destroy everything. We know that's not true and it's pretty unlikely that you'll get hit by a tornado, as evidenced by the 100 year old barn on our property and outbuilding that I'm guessing is circa 1970s.
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That's the funny thing with odds. I am about to move to a town in Maryland that has been wiped out by a F4 tornado twice. Once in 1926, the second time in 2002. Both storms took the same track and wiped out the same schoolhouse. We are currently planning a theater room for the new house....maybe that safe-room concept isn't such a bad idea.
 
weilke said:
That's the funny thing with odds. I am about to move to a town in Maryland that has been wiped out by a F4 tornado twice. Once in 1926, the second time in 2002. Both storms took the same track and wiped out the same schoolhouse. We are currently planning a theater room for the new house....maybe that safe-room concept isn't such a bad idea.
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It makes sense to us here. I'm doing the labor myself and figure it'll add about $1k in materials. It will add insulation to the room (good for theater purposes), and makes a comfortable place to ride out storms. Concrete is not required, and unless you care about meeting the codes exactly you can make some adjustments as you see fit.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
It makes sense to us here. I'm doing the labor myself and figure it'll add about $1k in materials. It will add insulation to the room (good for theater purposes), and makes a comfortable place to ride out storms. Concrete is not required, and unless you care about meeting the codes exactly you can make some adjustments as you see fit.
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The FEMA documents look like they were written by a committee of lobbyists. Unless you want to get FEMA funding for your saferoom, their standards are a resource only.

If you look at tornado fatalities, if you own a non-modular home with a basement, you are already way ahead of the game.
 
weilke said:
The FEMA documents look like they were written by a committee of lobbyists. Unless you want to get FEMA funding for your saferoom, their standards are a resource only.
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Agreed, but that doesn't mean they don't have value, or at least some degree of usefulness.
 
I have a basement, but every time a storm comes around with a tornado, i'm always standing outside looking for the tornado.

Several years ago I was driving home at night in rural VA and pulled off the road to watch an intense lightning show that seemed to be 10-15 miles away. After I got settled in and could focus on watching the storm, I noticed two things. 1) the lightning was closer than I thought. 2) every lightning flash was illuminating a large tornado!
 
weilke said:
The FEMA documents look like they were written by a committee of lobbyists. Unless you want to get FEMA funding for your saferoom, their standards are a resource only.

If you look at tornado fatalities, if you own a non-modular home with a basement, you are already way ahead of the game.
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No doubt, but the insurance company might give you a discount for the safe room built to FEMA code, no such discount for anything less I'm sure.
 
SoonerAviator said:
No doubt, but the insurance company might give you a discount for the safe room built to FEMA code, no such discount for anything less I'm sure.
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I doubt home insurance gives a discount for a safe room. They still have to replace 99% of the rest of the house. They do give discounts for SIF concrete construction and laminate glass windows in the hurricane zone.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
something to think about.....:D

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Exactly what I would expect from the ICF association. Comparing ICF to plywood, really? And I like how the CMU is unenforced and unfilled, which does not meet the FEMA safe room specs. And where's the 8" steel-reinforced concrete wall, like mine has?

If you think the ICF performance is impressive:

Precast concrete panels:


6" concrete wall (up to 180 mph)


Fully-grouted structural brick:

Standard construction just ain't going to cut it.
 
weilke said:
I doubt home insurance gives a discount for a safe room. They still have to replace 99% of the rest of the house. They do give discounts for SIF concrete construction and laminate glass windows in the hurricane zone.
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Mine does. It's not about the cost to rebuild the home, it's about the reduction in liability due to injuries sustained during the tornado.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
something to think about.....:D

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Well that's particularly useless, seeing as it doesn't compare the FEMA-approved wall (two layers of 3/4" plywood in opposite directions + 14-gauge steel behind them). ;)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well that's particularly useless, seeing as it doesn't compare the FEMA-approved wall (two layers of 3/4" plywood in opposite directions + 14-gauge steel behind them). ;)
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That video showed a 75mph 2x4. An EF5 is >200 mph. Rare, but devastating, trees are rarely left after one of those. They are giant erasers.

In Joplin, there were a number of fatalities after the storm. People that were caught in exposed areas had minor injuries, but died from infection. Dirt was whipping so fast that it embedded deep into skin tissues and led to major infections.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...rode-joplin-tornado-to-unexpected-human-home/
 
And another reason why it's a useless video. :)
 
my 2 cents: A safe room and a theater room seem to be on opposite ends of the size spectrum.

I'd consider a "safe" room be co utilized as a wine cellar, walk in vault (this is what I did), or other small (like 8x10?) room. I didn't see how many people in your family, but for the relative short amount of time you will actually need to be "safe" I think a smaller room is more economical. Throw some games, puzzles, snacks, flashlight, etc inside and you are done.
 
Badger said:
my 2 cents: A safe room and a theater room seem to be on opposite ends of the size spectrum.

I'd consider a "safe" room be co utilized as a wine cellar, walk in vault (this is what I did), or other small (like 8x10?) room. I didn't see how many people in your family, but for the relative short amount of time you will actually need to be "safe" I think a smaller room is more economical. Throw some games, puzzles, snacks, flashlight, etc inside and you are done.
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You are self-imposing safe room size constraints. Sure, most people who add a safe room/shelter after the fact do it with a small, reinforced room. However, there's no reason, other than cost, that a large room can't be designed with those same principles in mind. Being able to create a dual-purpose room isn't outside of the bounds of anything but your pocketbook. In reality, a basement with a reinforced ceiling pretty much meets that need, however, it's pretty tough to build that into an existing basement.
 
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Badger said:
Throw some games, puzzles, snacks, flashlight, etc inside and you are done.
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Yep gonna be eating popcorn and playing hungry hungry hippos with the fam while waiting for the EF5 to finish erasing my community. :lol:
 
dell30rb said:
Yep gonna be eating popcorn and playing hungry hungry hippos with the fam while waiting for the EF5 to finish erasing my community. :lol:
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But only if you aren't in the McDonald's Drive Thru lane when it hits.
 
Lindberg said:
If you're planing to hang out in your unreinforced basement:

Dcp_0360.jpg



2011-06-30-tus-tornado-car-6.jpg
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Isn't "some" reinforcement better than "none", which he apparently has now? That might be the case if he puts something on the ceiling that could collapse on them, but otherwise...

This thread makes me thing of the phrase, "The perfect is the enemy of the good."
 
The Sharknado is the worst.

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It looks like EF0-EF2 are the most common, even here in tornado alley. But once you get to EF3, fatalities go way up.

EF0 - EF2 range in damage scale from broken windows and loss of shingles, to roof loss. (And complete destruction of mobile homes)

The new EF scale is based on damage - so even a large tornado that stays in open fields and doesn't cause any damage is rated at EF0. That probably causes some skew the numbers.

Wiki says EF5 accounts for 0.1% of annual tornadoes in the U.S.

EF0 = 35%-40%
EF1 = 35%
EF2 = 15%-19%
EF3 = 6% (but cause >75% of tornado deaths)
EF4 = 1%
EF5 = 0.1%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_intensity
 
Back in the day a lot of people just had storm cellars out in Amarillo.

All it was is a hand dug hole in the ground with a roof over it and the dirt mounded up over it. The walls were dirt, it had a bench in it to sit on.

The reality is you run in there and sit for about thirty minutes until the storm passes. Then you come out.
 
txflyer said:
Back in the day a lot of people just had storm cellars out in Amarillo.

All it was is a hand dug hole in the ground with a roof over it and the dirt mounded up over it. The walls were dirt, it had a bench in it to sit on.

The reality is you run in there and sit for about thirty minutes until the storm passes. Then you come out.
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Whaaaat? no video games?...or movies? :yikes:
 
Typical scenario here:

Storms move in from the west, NWS issues a TS watch, then a TS warning. Radar shows circular echos, and NWS issues a tornado watch for certain areas. By then, all you need to do is look outside to know that something is amiss. It's pretty obvious. About then, you might start thinking about what to do if the sirens go off, and start listening to the radio (my handheld has the NWS station on it). Once a tornado is spotted, the tornado warning is issued and the sirens go off. That's the signal for all the neighborhood guys to go outside because we want to see something, and the more sensible wives take the kids downstairs. Then 10 minutes later the sirens stop, and the rain starts back up and it's all over.
 
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