The testing center has accused me of cheating on my IR written.

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PPC1052 said:
You keep missing my point. You and I may agree that it's not reasonable to infer cheating. Are you certain the FAA will? Would you bet your certification on the FAA agreeing?
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I doubt that the FAA will take punitive action. But I do think that they have to investigate, because frankly, anybody whose had to study for one of these tests would want them to investigate any possibility of cheating. Which means FAA personnel and testing center personnel will be wasting their time for this "joke".

Sometimes we end up with stupid rules because we have people that don't know where to draw the line without a stupid rule forcing them.
 
Salty said:
I doubt that the FAA will take punitive action. But I do think that they have to investigate, because frankly, anybody whose had to study for one of these tests would want them to investigate any possibility of cheating.
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I agree with you that the FAA will probably not take punitive action against Bryan for cheating after all of the investigation has been completed. Like you, I also think the FAA will conclude that it is something that must be investigated. And because the FAA thinks it is something that must be investigated, it is something that the test center must report or risk losing their certification or other lesser sanction for failing to report an incident of possible cheating.
 
It will probably be investigated for the simple reason after some shootings and other crimes that have been committed that the authorities had prior knowledge they don't take chances anymore.
 
PPC1052 said:
You keep missing my point. You and I may agree that it's not reasonable to infer cheating. Are you certain the FAA will? Would you bet your certification on the FAA agreeing?

This is the same FSDO that felt it had to investigate Bryan because of the facebook post about providing instruction for hire. If they felt that had to be investigated, do you really think they would give the test facility a pass for not reporting this post?
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The FSDO that was REQUIRED to investigate because someone REPORTED it.

Both cases the same. Idiots reporting things.

I definitely would not worry in the slightest about cheating posts online — about a facility I ran. BECAUSE I OWN THE CAMERA and I know my staff did their job monitoring test takers.

The only reason to worry is if they aren’t doing the proctor job correctly. Uh oh. Could it be? Or did they get caught before? Would explain the paranoia.

Here’s your scenario:

FAA: “Did you guys see that post on Facebook that someone asked a question from a phone during one of your tests?”
Proctor: “Yeah. Did you forget we have cameras and a proctor watching them? He posted that from the parking lot two hours before he walked in.”
FAA: “Ahh I see that now. Thanks. Okay bye.”

Or your evil FAA guy scenario:

FAA: “I don’t believe you.”
Proctor: “I already reviewed the video. Where do you want your copy sent?”

What it really looks like to me, is the school marm at AF thinks outside customers need to be treated like his typical instructors and students ... who he stuffs into uniforms and pretends he’s running a little airline.

What other possible mentality would have him admitting he “wanted to punish” an adult customer walking in off the street?

LOL. More Epaulets! Punishment!

You don’t say that to a customer. Unless you’re regularly “punishing” someone else at your place of work. That’s truly insane.
 
Crow said:
It will probably be investigated for the simple reason after some shootings and other crimes that have been committed that the authorities had prior knowledge they don't take chances anymore.
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You’re equating asking a joke question about a single test question ...

... in a written test pool of hundreds of questions...

... to a person with 16 in person contacts with the FBI...

... who did nothing...

... shooting people?

Wow. That’s truly the stupidest thing I’ve read online this week.

Or an expert troll post.
 
denverpilot said:
You’re equating asking a joke question about a single test question ...

... in a written test pool of hundreds of questions...

... to a person with 16 in person contacts with the FBI...

... who did nothing...

... shooting people?

Wow. That’s truly the stupidest thing I’ve read online this week.

Or an expert troll post.
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You're taking this thread way too personal. I almost always agree with you, but you're really stretching on this one. You don't seem to be able to see that this is more than the silly things you have been meme'ing
 
Salty said:
You're taking this thread way too personal. I almost always agree with you, but you're really stretching on this one. You don't seem to be able to see that this is more than the silly things you have been meme'ing
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It’s only “more” than a joke because the proctor is truly stupid. I assume also a CFI.

Tell me. What would your response be to an idiot from a flight school on the phone telling you they reported you to FAA because they “wanted to punish you”?

I guarantee Bryan was probably nicer than I would have been.

It’s not personal. We just don’t need people that stupid running anything at flight schools or anywhere near aviation.

Go be a mall cop if you think your role in life is to “punish” a customer by forcing a government investigation on them, instead of just asking them or looking at your own camera footage.

Or as Engvall would say...

“Yeah genius. I was cheating on a test from your parking lot. Here’s your sign.”
 
denverpilot said:
It’s only “more” than a joke because the proctor is truly stupid. I assume also a CFI.

Tell me. What would your response be to an idiot from a flight school on the phone telling you they reported you to FAA because they “wanted to punish you”?

I guarantee Bryan was probably nicer than I would have been.

It’s not personal. We just don’t need people that stupid running anything at flight schools or anywhere near aviation.

Go be a mall cop if you think your role in life is to “punish” a customer by forcing a government investigation on them, instead of just asking them or looking at your own camera footage.

Or as Engvall would say...

“Yeah genius. I was cheating on a test from your parking lot. Here’s your sign.”
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I'm sorry you can't put yourself into their shoes and see that Bryan's joke inconvenienced them and he deserves what he's getting. I doubt they had the discretion NOT to support it, but you can't seem to see that. I don't understand why. Cheating on a federal test is no small deal. I also find it interesting that you take Bryan's word for what a third party said without any question at all. Not that I think he's lying, but it's VERY possible he misconstrued or even misremembered the exact words used. The next cheater can use this as an excuse to say "no, it was just a joke, like that Bryan guy". It opens a can of worms and leads to senseless investigations and more rules. This was a terrible "joke".
 
I feel badly for Bryan. I truly do. He’s honestly funny with *most* of his postings, but things are not always perfect and this is a prime example.

Actually I usually chuckle at his posts, but this one just wasn’t funny... regardless of the cheating thing.

Do I think he cheated? No.
Do I think he used poor judgment and crossed the line with this latest post? Yes.

Do I wish him well with the future hoops he may have to jump through? Absolute effing lutely.
 
Salty said:
I'm sorry you can't put yourself into their shoes and see that Bryan's joke inconvenienced them and he deserves what he's getting.
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Ahhh. Right. Running your business is an inconvenience and we all deserve to be punished with a Federal investigation if we inconvenience a puppy mill staffer.

Salty said:
I doubt they had the discretion NOT to support it, but you can't seem to see that. I don't understand why.
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Because they did.


Salty said:
Cheating on a federal test is no small deal.
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It’s impossible to cheat on a test by asking a question that isn’t an actual question anyway, from a parking lot. Nor is it putting anyone at any risk whatsoever since you can’t pass a practical anyway by the answer to one question.

Ooh. It’s a “federal test”. I forgot. That makes it a big deal automatically. No.

I’ve already mentioned just how important it is with FAA not closing Sheppard down. Clearly FAA isn’t truly concerned about it.

And no. Boilerplate text that says “if you see something, say something” isn’t any indication of any sort of real concern.


Salty said:
I also find it interesting that you take Bryan's word for what a third party said without any question at all. Not that I think he's lying, but it's VERY possible he misconstrued or even misremembered the exact words used.
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I know him personally. Yes it counts for something.

But I’ve clearly stated why it doesn’t matter multiple times. You say I’m missing things. You keep purposefully ignoring that dum dum there at AF has a camera.


Salty said:
The next cheater can use this as an excuse to say "no, I was just joking". It opens a can of worms and leads to senseless investigations and more rules. This was a terrible "joke".
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I’ve already described how anybody can post a completely untraceable complaint on every single social media site that anyone is cheating.

I wish the hacker community was interested in SWATting test takers. You can look up that term. It’s real.

If every test facility had at least ten false FB complaints per day, they’d quickly forget all about worrying about anything but their job... a working camera and someone smart enough to look at the video.

Please let me know when you or anyone you care about is about to take a test. I’ll make sure to mention to some hackers who are bored that they can get you a permanent investigation record with an untraceable social media post.

Well only if a moron who wants to punish them reads it. Darn. It always comes back to one idiot who panicked about the Internet. Look at that!

Guess who won’t panic. A non flight school connected testing facility. The entire internet is full of posts joking about cheating or wanting to cheat on tests that are much harder. Federal ones even.

Normal testing site: YAWN! We have CAMERAS and proctors who do it professionally and aren’t forced to do it as a side gig as flight instructors... to make the puppy mill more profitable...

If you’re saying FAA might be scrutinizing these puppy mills, yeah... I could see that. :)
 
denverpilot said:
Proctor: “Yeah. Did you forget we have cameras and a proctor watching them? He posted that from the parking lot two hours before he walked in.”
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Here is the funny part about "tagging" a location in FaceCrack... You do not have to actually be somewhere to create a post from that location. You can "be" anywhere in the world with a FB post.
 
denverpilot said:
Normal testing site: YAWN! We have CAMERAS and proctors who do it professionally and aren’t forced to do it as a side gig as flight instructors... to make the puppy mill more profitable...
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You've missed the mark here, Nate. The test proctors I've seen at AF are not CFI's, they are usually reception and/or bookkeepers.
 
Ravioli said:
You've missed the mark here, Nate. The test proctors I've seen at AF are not CFI's, they are usually reception and/or bookkeepers.
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I’m guessing it wasn’t a front desk person or bookkeeper who called the Feds.

Or said they wanted to punish Bryan.
 
smv said:
Here is the funny part about "tagging" a location in FaceCrack... You do not have to actually be somewhere to create a post from that location. You can "be" anywhere in the world with a FB post.
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I guess I thought that was obvious, but I think there’s more old farts around here than I thought. Judging by how many take the internet seriously. LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
I guess I thought that was obvious, but I think there’s more old farts around here than I thought. Judging by how many take the internet seriously. LOL.
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You seem to think it’s ok to do any dumb thing on the internet and there should be no repercussions.
 
denverpilot said:
Or your evil FAA guy scenario:

FAA: “I don’t believe you.”
Proctor: “I already reviewed the video. Where do you want your copy sent?”
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Its very easy to say 'if I had such and such I would do this...' Its quite another thing to tie up your actual money into an actual business which relies on authority granted by the FAA in order to provide certain services and which can have that authority revoked without much recourse if the FAA would happen to decide that you did not follow the letter of their policy to report all incidents or allegations of cheating.

Glad to know that you're tough as nails and you wouldn't bat an eyelash at risking your operating authority by deciding for yourself how the FAA will feel about your interpretation of their policies. But I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you're going to expect every other business owner to do exactly as you would do in this sort of situation.
 
This is going to bubble and boil until the first day of April.

Then charlie 6 pack is going to shout "APRIL FOOLS".

Then some of us will laugh..........others, not.
 
Salty said:
You seem to think it’s ok to do any dumb thing on the internet and there should be no repercussions.
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Pretty much. Yeah. Here’s why.

Innocent people have been killed by SWATting. I told you to look it up.

Most official reactions to internet bull**** are extremely overblown and very few seem to realize how infinitely easy it is to manipulate.

(As I’ve pointed out, very few above a certain age even know how to turn on their damn computers. Including the FAA guy I watched try to log in for half an hour one day. His coworkers were clearly ignoring his attempts to blame the computer again, and didn’t come to his aid anymore. They probably once did. People learn quickly. “Call tech support!” They literally yelled from down the hall. The guy wasn’t qualified or capable to work a desktop PC and badge reader.)

I lived a mile from where a bunch of hut hut cops literally blew the entire back of a guy’s house off to get at a Walmart shoplifter. Then his city told him he couldn’t rebuild it the same as it was because code changed for drainage. Then he lost over seven years in Federal court suing them for damages.

Also live where a cop passed out in his patrol car drunk at over five times the legal limit was covered up with no consequences and no convictions.

Just using the cop stories because they’re egregious and easy to look up and not dismiss with a hand wave like the dead computer gamers who get SWATted. Or millions of others who deal with bureaucracy daily for no actual societal benefit.

Bigger picture point is, without TOUGH laws against REPORTING false crime, the Internet is about the last place anybody should be reporting anything from.

Remember. I killed Epstein. Let someone know!

Defending a moron who can’t tell a comment like that is not any actual harm to anybody isn’t a path to righteousness. It’s a path to insanity.

We close down places now for fake bomb threats. Fine. But still stupid. We also ignore real ones, so what’s the point?

But worse, we annoy millions with false accusations because our stupid society refuses to learn how to use computers and not have emotional reactions without any attempt to reach the person who they think did something from an online post.

All you have to do to Bryan’s comment is hit reply and say,

“I assume you know we have cameras on all test takers.”

There. Look at that. So easy. Communicate.

1. Bryan realizes he’s “inconvenienced” a blowhard.
2. Blowhard’s “reputation” online (that he didn’t have) is saved.
3. PSI and FAA both know Officer Punishment is on Facebook patrol.
4. Nobody has a permanent Federal investigation record.

There’s really nothing hard about it until you are up to actual threats and not just “he said something against groupthink — double plus bad”.

Which is all this one is.

Off to go let the slave up out of the basement now. The Gimp is hungry.

Make sure to call the cops on me. I’m definitely hiding someone in my basement.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
But I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you're going to expect every other business owner to do exactly as you would do in this sort of situation.
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Oh hell no. I expect most businesses are stupid like they are.

Disappointment assumes I think they can be saved from that level of computer and internet stupidity. I’m not even surprised. Have I indicated otherwise?

But if I’m their customer and they pull that ****, they’re not going to like the consequences.

Bryan is way too nice.

If I come to you paying for a service as dumb as “watch me click on a computer and run a camera” that’s it.

You take it upon yourself to extend that service to my social media and the parking lot, didn’t bother to contact me if you misunderstood something, and also go start a Federal investigation on me?

You started the fight. I’ll make damn sure you’ve lost as much time and money as I have from it, before we are through.

And it won’t take me much time at all. Well worth every minute too. You’ll regret it.

Thankfully I rarely do business with vendors that dumb.

PSI certainly rates up there, but I’ve already known that for a long time after seeing the typical “flight school” PSI franchise and flight school / computer illiterate guy running it until it was closed.

Like I said above, lots of other tests with them at their much more professional locations.
 
denverpilot said:
I guess I thought that was obvious, but I think there’s more old farts around here than I thought. Judging by how many take the internet seriously. LOL.
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Heh... I am not much of a FBer. I have an account because some of the activites in which I participate seem to have gravitated to it for their primary information dissemination method. One day a buddy of mine (I do not have any FB "friends" I do not know personally) "checked in" in Singapore. Then a couple hours later, in Alaska. Figured out pretty quick what was happening. o_O
 
smv said:
Here is the funny part about "tagging" a location in FaceCrack... You do not have to actually be somewhere to create a post from that location. You can "be" anywhere in the world with a FB post.
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I was in my bed.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I was in my bed.
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Ok I've stayed out of this thread up until now, but I can't go without responding to this. Your kids seriously let you stay in bed until after 8:30 AM on a weekend? I'm lucky if I get to sleep until 6 AM on weekends before the miserable alarm clocks - sorry, cute little bundles of joy - come barging into my room every 5 minutes having the following exchange:

One of my kids: "DADDY ARE YOU AWAKE YET?!"
Me: "Oh you sweet little bundle of joy did you need something?"

(the response I typed in the line above may or may not be an accurate representation of what I actually say to my kids in response to repeated awakenings)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Ok I've stayed out of this thread up until now, but I can't go without responding to this. Your kids seriously let you stay in bed until after 8:30 AM on a weekend? I'm lucky if I get to sleep until 6 AM on weekends before the miserable alarm clocks - sorry, cute little bundles of joy - come barging into my room every 5 minutes having the following exchange:

One of my kids: "DADDY ARE YOU AWAKE YET?!"
Me: "Oh you sweet little bundle of joy did you need something?"

(the response I typed in the line above may or may not be an accurate representation of what I actually say to my kids in response to repeated awakenings)
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Things have been really really rocky at work. We cut 25% of our Staff last week and my wife has been a saint giving me a LOT of space to deal with this.
Normally the kids climb into bed on the weekends and beg us to get up but the last couple weeks have been horrible.
We made the Cuts on Thursday. I had to cut 1/2 my team. Both mornings last weekend she has gotten up and gotten the kids' wants and needs addressed. I slept until 9 on Saturday and probably would have Sunday as well if not for the test.

But yes normally, I can't get the kids out of bed on week days and on the weekends, they are ready to get up about an hour before me.
 
I’m so sorry. The last place I worked, layoffs were a nearly quarterly event for 8 years. Eventually one of the managers decided to base staff retention choices on the growth projections of the products supported rather than performance appraisals or other criteria, and I was definitely supporting a shrinking legacy product. Both of my tell tales, the people who I figured that if they were let go, it was time to start hunting, were let go the same day I was. In my exit interview, I think I did more trying to cheer up my boss than anything else. One of the others did not take it at all well, and it was bothering him. By the time I saw him, I knew enough about who else went that day, that I had zero interest in being left there holding the bag. As disruptive as that day was, that night and going forward was some of the best sleep I had in a long time. I no longer had the anxiety of wondering if my HRID was in the pool for the next round, and I never previously realized entirely how much it was bothering me.

Let’s hope your company can right the ship, you don’t have more rounds, and that the workload is bearable with what you have left. And I hope all your displaced staff easily find new opportunities. Dallas seems to be one of the hottest IT markets, so there is hope.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Things have been really really rocky at work. We cut 25% of our Staff last week and my wife has been a saint giving me a LOT of space to deal with this...We made the Cuts on Thursday. I had to cut 1/2 my team...
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Sorry to hear this Bryan.
I've been through too many of these sorts of "downsizings", "rightsizings", "restructuring", or whatever the overpaid management consultants and HR Depts are calling them these days (anybody who's worked in the oil patch for any length of time can't hardly avoid them).

Take time to take care of yourself man - sleep, exercise, family time.

After enduring multiple rounds of these, about 20 years ago I made a promise to myself I wouldn't ever stay in a company that wasn't growing.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Things have been really really rocky at work. We cut 25% of our Staff last week and my wife has been a saint giving me a LOT of space to deal with this.
Normally the kids climb into bed on the weekends and beg us to get up but the last couple weeks have been horrible.
We made the Cuts on Thursday. I had to cut 1/2 my team. Both mornings last weekend she has gotten up and gotten the kids' wants and needs addressed. I slept until 9 on Saturday and probably would have Sunday as well if not for the test.

But yes normally, I can't get the kids out of bed on week days and on the weekends, they are ready to get up about an hour before me.
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That really sucks, Bryan, I'm sorry to hear that.

To be fair, my wife is also pretty good about doing that a lot of weekend days when she's home. But since she's gone 50% of weekends, on those days it comes down to explaining to the kids "Waking up daddy super early = grumpy dad and while momma ain't happy ain't nobody happy if daddy ain't happy and there ain't no momma around your life will still not be fun."
 
Juliet Hotel said:
You must be tons of fun at a party. :rolleyes:
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He works in IT. Thinking everyone else is an idiot is part of the job description. :)

iu
 
denverpilot said:
You take it upon yourself to extend that service to my social media and the parking lot, didn’t bother to contact me if you misunderstood something, and also go start a Federal investigation on me?
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Ahh, Bryan is the one who included the companies social media into his joke. Its not like they went out to look for his post, they got a 'dinggg, you have been tagged on 6PCs post' message on their page. Can't wave it in their face and then expect to be ignored.
 
denverpilot said:
Innocent people have been killed by SWATting. I told you to look it up.
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So if I understand you correctly. No one should take anything they read on the internet as anything but a joke.

Example: The internet tells the authorities, via a post, that xyz house will be invaded by gun wielding thieves who intend to kill the occupants because money is owed for a drug deal. Should the authorities ignore the post because everything on the internet is garbage? Should they make an effort to protect the occupants? If the authorities ignore the post and the occupants are slaughtered including a few children, should the authorities be held accountable, after all, they had a warning?
 
Arnold said:
So if I understand you correctly. No one should take anything they read on the internet as anything but a joke.

Example: The internet tells the authorities, via a post, that xyz house will be invaded by gun wielding thieves who intend to kill the occupants because money is owed for a drug deal. Should the authorities ignore the post because everything on the internet is garbage? Should they make an effort to protect the occupants? If the authorities ignore the post and the occupants are slaughtered including a few children, should the authorities be held accountable, after all, they had a warning?
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This is the reason al gore should be arrested for inventing the internet.
 
denverpilot said:
I’m guessing it wasn’t a front desk person or bookkeeper who called the Feds.

Or said they wanted to punish Bryan.
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Let's see: Bryan, after a prior post about doing stuff against the regs and the resultant result, does essentially the same thing again, and gets the same result. The fact (if it is one) that someone want to punish him is irrelevant. It's a strawman; anyone who was interested in the integrity of testing could have reported it in good faith.
You are blaming the wrong person for wasting the FAA's and testing center's time.
 
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