The Bone is grounded

kyleb said:
And if the big bad ever decides to pick a fight, your high tech stuff is either worn out or has been surveyed extensively by the big bad's agents while you were using it to crush the Lilliputians.

Ultimately, you need a high/low mix to deal with the spectrum of problems most efficiently.

It seems like we're doing this the wrong way...
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Yeah and a high / low mix is key and that’s why they keep the B-1 around. If we keep it around, then those crews are going to need to stay proficient by engaging in low threat guerrilla type warfare. That’s what we had in both Iraq and Afghanistan after the first couple of months and the B-1 has adapted well. Same as the B-52.

Sen McCain’s comments show just how out of touch he was with what is going on over there. Personally took part in an Op (Strong Eagle) where a B-1 was providing CAS and ultimately dropped a 500 lb JDAM. This B-1 pilots last comment below is dead on. There is a mix of overhead aircraft 24/7 over there. On any given day I could look on a CAS card and see not only those 5 types of aircraft but also coalition Typhoons, Harriers, Rafales, Tornados etc.

No one is going to deny the fact the A-10 is an awesome CAS platform but you’d be hard pressed to find a significant difference with other platforms. During tight budget times, they’re going to eliminate aircraft such as the A-10 that can’t perform a multi mission. Same thing we went through in the Army with the OH-58 getting axed. A nice to have asset where it’s observation capabilities couldn’t be matched but like the A-10, they felt other aircraft (AH-64/ISR) could adequately fill its role. Time will tell.

https://breakingdefense.com/2014/05/sen-mccain-b-1s-really-do-cas/
 
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kyleb said:
Interesting. I tend to believe those subs have a lot of value in their ability to open and close sea lanes, which are (IMO) the key to global trade.
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Some of them. You won’t be using SSBNs for that job.

And they’re much better at closing than opening.

If there’s active ASW going on, you probably don’t want to be there in a merchant ship.
 
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kyleb said:
Interesting. I tend to believe those subs have a lot of value in their ability to open and close sea lanes, which are (IMO) the key to global trade.
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That's not their mission. The surface fleet has that responsibility.

There are two types of subs in the US fleet, SSBN ballistic missile boats that have nuclear capability, and attack subs that target other countries' subs. Some attack subs can also launch cruise missiles.
 
Velocity173 said:
Whoa now! It’s not a nuke bomber anymore. It’s actually a CAS platform that a lot of commanders prefer because of long station times and a variety of ordnance at their disposal ...well the Sniper Pod does have some IR issues though.
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Not a Sniper pod issue......it was the crew's lack of understanding of their pod's capes. Sniper, like ATFLIR or Litening G4, is unable to "see" ground based handheld IR pointers. I guess you could say that is an "issue", though pretty much every fighter FLIR today has the same issue. That one happened while I was flying in AFG. Sad day for everyone involved.
 
35 AoA said:
Not a Sniper pod issue......it was the crew's lack of understanding of their pod's capes. Sniper, like ATFLIR or Litening G4, is unable to "see" ground based handheld IR pointers. I guess you could say that is an "issue", though pretty much every fighter FLIR today has the same issue. That one happened while I was flying in AFG. Sad day for everyone involved.
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I know, as usual 60 minutes exaggerated the story to make it seem like the pod has serious flaws. Linked it to the B-1 as well when obviously other aircraft have Snipers. Just another example of the limitations that always exist with hardware and a bad chain of events.

Not a pod issue but the same thing happened early on in OEF in Dec 2001 with the initial SF group. AF JTAC gave his position and B-52 dropped a 2,000 lb JDAM on them. Another sad deal, especially when things were being wrapped up there.
 
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DaleB said:
I wonder about the condition of the cockpit after the ejection seats depart... would it even BE flyable if there were someone left to fly it?
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If the front seats went out, the forward windshield is gone and the integrity of the fuselage is suspect.
And no, the OSO is not an AF pilot and no acces to flight controls. Manual bailout through any hole available.
(Retired B-1B IOSO)
 
hindsight2020 said:
Some corrections to this story. The ejection sequence was commanded in manual, meaning the seats were chosen not to be auto-sequenced. Meaning everybody was their own seat commander that day. This decision was made presumably by the AC in order to avoid the back seaters being struck by the blown hatches on an **uncontrolled bailout, fatality mode that has occurred in the B-52 for instance.

So it is not accurate to say that they were all at risk of uncommanded seat firings at any moment. None of the seats were actuated, except the OSO which was first down the list. The failure of his seat to fire is what prompted the AC to make the decision to stay with an airplane that had a failed fire suppression system, for which the Tech Order calls for ejection (which is why they attempted to eject in the first place).

It is in his decision to stay with the trapped OSO, risking his life and that of the rest of the crew, latter which could have ejected individually at any point they felt like, the reason they all will get medals out of this. That much has never been disputed. The alternative would have been for the rest of the crew to attempt to eject individually, eventually leaving the trapped OSO and whoever else's seat didn't fire, to perish with the aircraft. As a former B-52 Aircraft Commander I can tell you I would have made the same choice this AC did. I'm not leaving a guy trapped if I can help it. He got lucky that the fire warning was not in earnest; had it consumed the aircraft they would have been forced to leave the OSO behind. As I've said before, we work in an unforgiving business.

I am glad the fleet is being grounded, as this was a no-s--t confirmed failure to fire on an ejection seat. Major problems exist here and they need to be straightened out. My hope is the directorate of mx for the Bone doesn't obfuscate the process. The animosity between MX and OPS is a known quantity, and this is certainly not the time for CYA, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Here! Here!
Yes, the AC decided to stay with the jet. He could have decided to get the DSO out, but if the copilot goes then the pilot area of the fuselage is compromised.

(Retired B-52G Nav, B-1B IOSO)
 
3393RP said:
That's not their mission. The surface fleet has that responsibility.

There are two types of subs in the US fleet, SSBN ballistic missile boats that have nuclear capability, and attack subs that target other countries' subs. Some attack subs can also launch cruise missiles.
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It’s a nice little nuclear weapons delivery and deterrent circle jerk.
 
Velocity173 said:
Not a pod issue but the same thing happened early on in OEF in Dec 2001 with the initial SF group. AF JTAC gave his position and B-52 dropped a 2,000 lb JDAM on them. Another sad deal, especially when things were being wrapped up there.
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Wasn't there for that one, though I've heard the case study discussed. By and large, you can sum up the majority of FW CAS blue on blue with some variation of this theme. Either JTAC erroneously gave friendly location as line 6, aircrew inadvertently input friendly location into own system based on misunderstanding and/or lack of correlation, or a sub genre I suppose, where the wrong end of the IR pointer or other marking device was identified (i.e. the friendly location) as the target. The perceived or real urgency of a "TIC" seems to have historically contributed to these types of errors, and in recognition of that and the often "fogged" nature of real world combat comms/talk ons/etc, I'm certainly not pointing a finger and saying it could never happen to me. But that is also what good training during the pre deployment workup cycle, and good habit patterns will hopefully prevent.
 
35 AoA said:
Wasn't there for that one, though I've heard the case study discussed. By and large, you can sum up the majority of FW CAS blue on blue with some variation of this theme. Either JTAC erroneously gave friendly location as line 6, aircrew inadvertently input friendly location into own system based on misunderstanding and/or lack of correlation, or a sub genre I suppose, where the wrong end of the IR pointer or other marking device was identified (i.e. the friendly location) as the target. The perceived or real urgency of a "TIC" seems to have historically contributed to these types of errors, and in recognition of that and the often "fogged" nature of real world combat comms/talk ons/etc, I'm certainly not pointing a finger and saying it could never happen to me. But that is also what good training during the pre deployment workup cycle, and good habit patterns will hopefully prevent.
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Yeah, wish I had a dollar for every time I got wrong coordinates, timelines that were way off and then poor commo??? It always amazed me how such a seemingly simple thing like commo can get totally screwed up.

Not saying I was perfect on my end either. I made my share of errors and bent some things because of poor judgment. Fortunately no one was ever injured through my actions. I was also thankful that I was never in a situation like the B-1 incident where life and death was a trigger away. So many guys got their decisions scrutinized because of an error in judgment that any average aviator would make.
 
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3393RP said:
There are two types of subs in the US fleet, SSBN ballistic missile boats that have nuclear capability, and attack subs that target other countries' subs. Some attack subs can also launch cruise missiles.
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They also have two special ops subs, one on each side of the canal. Or they did in the '90s anyways. I served on one based out of Pearl.
 
35 AoA said:
Truth. The muster report is essentially a roster of f***** nerds :)
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You people are harsh. Don't blame me if I bought a programmable Casio to simplify the reactor chemistry report. Programmed it to accept the inputs from the reactor water Chem tests and output all of the required reportables. Simplified my life. My department head tested it for accuracy and also used it. You should come over to one of my parties :D We will have a blast.
 
woodchucker said:
You people are harsh. Don't blame me if I bought a programmable Casio to simplify the reactor chemistry report. Programmed it to accept the inputs from the reactor water Chem tests and output all of the required reportables. Simplified my life. My department head tested it for accuracy and also used it. You should come over to one of my parties :D We will have a blast.
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I guess we won't need lighting if its an outdoor party since you glow in the dark. :stirpot:
 
woodchucker said:
You people are harsh. Don't blame me if I bought a programmable Casio to simplify the reactor chemistry report. Programmed it to accept the inputs from the reactor water Chem tests and output all of the required reportables. Simplified my life. My department head tested it for accuracy and also used it. You should come over to one of my parties :D We will have a blast.
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I worked in Code 2330 at Mare Island over 40 years ago. Primary plant instrumentation on the old S5W plant. I'm sure the sailors in the stern would have loved to have had such toys back then. Good on you.
 
I was assigned to a surface ship in SUBFLOTSIX, in Charleston, SC. Our primary mission was to resupply the Sub Tenders in Holy Loch and Rota. Being a surface ship, we got every submariner who fouled up and was sent to the brig, and subsequently was released. Can't send these sailors back to the nuke!

A few nerds would have been a breath of fresh air! -Skip
 
Sheesh. I didn't know we had so many swabbies on this board.
The kid who grew up across the street is the ExO on a nuclear sub out of Groton.
Navy nerds explains a lot.
 
Seems appropriate for this group. LOL.

Kid needs a lot less caffeine in his life methinks.

 
another brown shoe Navy nerd shellback swabbie here ... Have a fine Navy day!
 
How soon does the “boat” vs “ship” discussion start?

Cheers
 
heck if I know ... I just had to land there ... because "this is where your food is, son!"
 
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