Tesla Pickup Unveil

[SoonerAviator]

No reason to wonder. It’s a reality. Many regret leasing the land. They have a huge environmental impact.

When I was living in western Kansas they put one in just a few miles down the road. Was not a fan.

They sure look like fans.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

They sure look like fans.

Yeah. They do.

 

[Lowflynjack]

No reason to wonder. It’s a reality. Many regret leasing the land. They have a huge environmental impact.

When I was living in western Kansas they put one in just a few miles down the road. Was not a fan.

There was a great documentary on this. They can put them just far away from a house that if they fall, they won't hit it. The shadows cast on their houses was driving some of them crazy... it was like a strobe all the time. Between that and the noise, it was overwhelming.

 

[Zeldman]

Living near Austin, I see hundreds of these ugly wannabe trucks. I drive by a train depot where they load them onto trains. I think if you asked a 4 year old to draw you a truck, they'd do better than this! Hopefully I'm not being vague on how I feel about these hideous things...

Looks like the Wagon Queen Family Truckster on the way to Walley World, "America's Favorite Family Fun Park"...

Jack be nimble, Jack be quick
(Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
Take a ride on a West Coast kick
(Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Actually, nearly every train on the rails today is electric. Most of them carry a diesel generator to generate the electricity.

Diesel-Electric Locomotives

Although diesel locomotives first came to American railroads in the 1920s, their use was confined to switch engines, and later to passenger train locomotives. It wasn't until 1940 that the Electro Motive Division of General Motors (EMD) demonstrated that diesels could practically replace steam...

www.up.com

No ****.

I had no idea. /s

Lol

 

[tspear]

A very funny review of the CT. Cherry picked info, but still funny.

Tim

 

[FastEddieB]

My decision, as expressed in a Facebook post:

Bottom line: $99,990 for the AWD “Foundation” model. Compare that to what Elon teased in 2019:

 

[Grum.Man]

My decision, as expressed in a Facebook post:

Bottom line: $99,990 for the AWD “Foundation” model. Compare that to what Elon teased in 2019:

That guys is obviously a troll . No logical person would buy an electric truck to tow a travel trailer. Even if they did why not get a Lightning or Silverado EV over a Tundra.

People really got to get past the truck aspect or any justification for buying one. It's a toy and status symbol just like every other EV out there. People buy 300k Porsche's just to drive to cars and coffee, lifted HD diesel trucks with chrome wheels and rubber band tires, Corvette's to have an excuse to wear their white Nike's and knee socks. I see 60's Corvettes with less hp than a modern V6 Camaro sell for 6 figures. Time to accept the fact that it's an enthusiast car for a different generation.

 

[Salty]

That guys is obviously a troll.

lol

 

[Grum.Man]

If everyone made logical decisions with the salvation of the planet in mind they would be driving base model Camry's they bought 20 years ago or a new one they plan to keep for the next 20. If you want an electric car for the performance, image, or a status symbol then do so. Just don't be one of those people pretending you are saving the environment every time you turn your lease in for the next hottest car.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

That guys is obviously a troll . No logical person would buy an electric truck to tow a travel trailer. Even if they did why not get a Lightning or Silverado EV over a Tundra.

Except when the travel trailer powers itself.

Lightship’s Electric RV Is a Battery Beast That Basically Tows Itself

Lightship’s all-electric L1 RV doesn’t reduce range when it’s being towed and can expand to 10 feet when stationary.

www.inverse.com

"The L1 has its own 80kWH battery that powers an electric drivetrain... This way, you won't have any range or miles per gallon lost"

Lightship’s Electric RV Is a Battery Beast That Basically Tows Itself

Lightship’s all-electric L1 RV doesn’t reduce range when it’s being towed and can expand to 10 feet when stationary.

www.inverse.com

 

[FastEddieB]

Cool! But no way they can sell them for that. Look what Winnebago Class C’s are going for:

Albeit a motor home and not a trailer, but still…

 

[RyanShort1]

If everyone made logical decisions with the salvation of the planet in mind they would be driving base model Camry's they bought 20 years ago or a new one they plan to keep for the next 20. If you want an electric car for the performance, image, or a status symbol then do so. Just don't be one of those people pretending you are saving the environment every time you turn your lease in for the next hottest car.

Hey, I’m driving a 2007 Prius that has 250,000 miles on it… for real.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Cool! But no way they can sell them for that. Look what Winnebago Class C’s are going for:

Albeit a motor home and not a trailer, but still…

I dunno, it's basically a Ford Lightning (or insert EV example here) with extra interior space and no need for a ton of the safety/infotainment gadgetry. I'd think that you could probably make a small version (20'-25') for $120K as minimalist as they showed in the video. Those Class C examples have to purchase an existing Ford/Ram/Mercedes chassis and then build it out. You can buy new 30' travel trailers for $30K-$40K all day long. So can they take a basic EV drivetrain/battery and adapt it to a $40K trailer? I don't see why not. The problem is convincing people to spend 3-4Xs the money for a travel trailer over a traditional model. I can buy a TON of fuel for the extra $80K it takes to buy an EV travel trailer.

Edit: I'd guess they are targeting the type of buyers who buy Airstream trailers for $120K-140K, who might see it as a wash between the two.

 

[TCABM]

Cool! But no way they can sell them for that. Look what Winnebago Class C’s are going for:

Albeit a motor home and not a trailer, but still…

$125K is the bottom end of the lux 5W market or Airstream market. I’d be more worried about tongue weight/TV payload limits on a bumper pull. Plus it’s an incredibly niche consumer segment.

ETA: they’re spec’ing 27ft & 7500 GVWR. Considering a model 3 is 4k lbs and an X plaid is the chunkster at 5400lbs, I’m skeptical. Then, will a standard 30A or 50A campground outlet fit the needs? Lots of handwaving at the practicals of RVing.

 

[SoonerAviator]

$125K is the bottom end of the lux 5W market or Airstream market. I’d be more worried about tongue weight/TV payload limits on a bumper pull. Plus it’s an incredibly niche consumer segment.

Lol, I edited my comment to suggest the Airstream guys. Definitely a class of buyer who pays a ton for the name/visual appeal (and some increased quality as well).

 

[FastEddieB]

Before buying our aluminum CampLite, we had joined an Airstream forum and were considering one.

Lots of complaints about declining quality, filiform corrosion on brand new trailers due to the inferior aluminum now used, and general QC issues. Still iconic, but this Google image search made up our minds:

To wit: our Camplite has an aluminum floor.

 

[SoonerAviator]

$125K is the bottom end of the lux 5W market or Airstream market. I’d be more worried about tongue weight/TV payload limits on a bumper pull. Plus it’s an incredibly niche consumer segment.

ETA: they’re spec’ing 27ft & 7500 GVWR. Considering a model 3 is 4k lbs and an X plaid is the chunkster at 5400lbs, I’m skeptical. Then, will a standard 30A or 50A campground outlet fit the needs? Lots of handwaving at the practicals of RVing.

So, say they build it out at 5K curb weight, and have a battery pack that can run it 250 miles on a charge. Should be doable for those who are just running 2-3 hours down the road right? Charge at that campsite off of Level 2 30A charging all day (while also having to power A/C/fridge/stove/etc), tow back home with a full charge. I think the campgrounds would have to adjust their electric fee for those, as they certainly aren't planning on an RV pulling full 30A load for 12 hours straight, lol.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

So, say they build it out at 5K curb weight, and have a battery pack that can run it 250 miles on a charge. Should be doable for those who are just running 2-3 hours down the road right? Charge at that campsite off of Level 2 30A charging all day (while also having to power A/C/fridge/stove/etc), tow back home with a full charge. I think the campgrounds would have to adjust their electric fee for those, as they certainly aren't planning on an RV pulling full 30A load for 12 hours straight, lol.Yu

Yup. But the early adopters will get a free ride until the sites figure it out.

Plus, how many of these will really sell, if it moves beyond vaporware, for the reasons above.

The concept is intriguing, though. Pull a fully equipped travel trailer with a Ford Maverick, anyone?

 

[TCABM]

So, say they build it out at 5K curb weight, and have a battery pack that can run it 250 miles on a charge. Should be doable for those who are just running 2-3 hours down the road right? Charge at that campsite off of Level 2 30A charging all day (while also having to power A/C/fridge/stove/etc), tow back home with a full charge. I think the campgrounds would have to adjust their electric fee for those, as they certainly aren't planning on an RV pulling full 30A load for 12 hours straight, lol.

The idea is grand alright. For comparison, the Airstream Flying Cloud 27’ has curb weight of 6k lbs and a GVWR of 7800. inTech’s 26’ offering is in that same range. A Rockwood Minilite is 5500lbs/6900lbs.

That’s a pretty big innovation gap to close. I wish them luck.

 

[Velocity173]

Had the typical Tesla SC experience today. Needed to replaced the top windows on my rear (Falcon Wing) doors because Tesla uses a crappy rubber trim. Can’t replace the trim. No, the entire window with new trim must be replaced.

Anyway, took 3.5 hrs (not bad) for both sides but when it was done, I noticed the left side didn’t look as well aligned as the right. When I shut the door it made a creaking sound but I thought it was the strut. Got home, did another walk around and found a big crack on top. Going back tomorrow to get fixed free of charge.

 

[Salty]

Had the typical Tesla SC experience today. Needed to replaced the top windows on my rear (Falcon Wing) doors because Tesla uses a crappy rubber trim. Can’t replace the trim. No, the entire window with new trim must be replaced.

Anyway, took 3.5 hrs (not bad) for both sides but when it was done, I noticed the left side didn’t look as well aligned as the right. When I shut the door it made a creaking sound but I thought it was the strut. Got home, did another walk around and found a big crack on top. Going back tomorrow to get fixed free of charge.


View attachment 127179View attachment 127180View attachment 127181

Yeah I've had it with mine. This last software update was the final straw for me. I'm sure they'll fix all the problems eventually, but this one was so bad all the crap I paid extra for is useless so WTF? I can't believe more people aren't complaining. I've heard very little about it.

 

[Larry in TN]

or the entire Power grid before too many more people flood in and we start enjoying the daily blackouts in August and September.

Last I saw, some months ago, was the Tesla Energy's wait list for Megapacks (grid-level backup) was two years. Hawaii recently put a Megapack site online and it replaces a peeker-plant. They also have a lot of solar and wind generation which is much more useful with the grid backup.

My question is this, if these EV's are so super awesome, why do we need to incentivize people to buy them?

They shouldn't. That isn't government's role. Their role is infrastructure and they've even messed that up. When they made funding available for public charging infrastructure they required the use of a charging standard (CCS1) than less than half of the EVs in the US have and that all of the manufacturers are abandoning because they didn't like the politics of the CEO of the company that made the majority of the US' EVs.

The mass market, affordable EVs are coming and they'll get here fastest if the government just stays out of the way.

 

[Larry in TN]

"We are going come to your house and drain some fuel out of your car occasionally. We may or may not replace it at some later time, but if we empty your tank we'll give you a credit on your next bill at whatever we determine the going rate to be."

Do you really think that this is an acceptable business model? Why or why not?

Who has that business model? Why would anyone sign up for that?

The proposals I've heard would have the utility paying a monthly credit to anyone who makes a percentage of their home batteries, or EV batteries, capacity available to the grid. The owner still gets to choose how much they'll release to the utility. Release more, get paid more.

 

[Rich Holt]

Last I saw, some months ago, was the Tesla Energy's wait list for Megapacks (grid-level backup) was two years. Hawaii recently put a Megapack site online and it replaces a peeker-plant. They also have a lot of solar and wind generation which is much more useful with the grid.

This has nothing to do with Tesla. This factory only makes grid backup batteries.

 

[Larry in TN]

This has nothing to do with Tesla. This factory only makes grid backup batteries.

If Tesla Energy has a two-year waiting list then the demand for such megapacks must be strong. Hence the need for the factor in your area.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Boy, I've got some catching up to do on this thread!

Let's think about this in terms of a car that nearly everyone owns today.

What would your response be if the utility came to you and said:

"We are going come to your house and drain some fuel out of your car occasionally. We may or may not replace it at some later time, but if we empty your tank we'll give you a credit on your next bill at whatever we determine the going rate to be."

Do you really think that this is an acceptable business model? Why or why not?

My brother has a few Tesla PowerWalls and a large solar array on his house, and he has a pretty sweet deal with the power company. It isn't "whatever we determine the going rate to be"... It's a predetermined fixed fee, he kicks back 3kWh to the grid from his battery and gets paid nearly $37 each time. That's 100 *times* what I pay for power. Then he recharges it from solar for free.

So yeah, if someone offered to come to my house and drain gas out of my car at $300/gallon, I'd take that deal.

That would still work for my application. I think my uncle probably averaged 3-5 miles on his truck per day at the ranch.

Even if solar on the vehicle would work for your application, it'd still be cheaper and easier to have stationary solar and plug the truck in. On-vehicle solar is unlikely to ever be worthwhile for much more than a few niche use cases.

My question is this, if these EV's are so super awesome, why do we need to incentivize people to buy them? Shouldn't they just, you know, sell themselves?

Early on, the reason for incentives is to encourage enough adoption that the manufacturers can pay off their R&D costs in a reasonable amount of time by making consumer prices close enough to parity that unit sales are sufficient to make the R&D investment worthwhile.

Thing is, we're well past that point now. EVs have been coming out on top in lifetime costs for several years, and in some cases have even reached purchase price parity. There's no reason for incentives to still exist.

My decision, as expressed in a Facebook post:

Bottom line: $99,990 for the AWD “Foundation” model. Compare that to what Elon teased in 2019:

Keep in mind, that was $50k for a bare bones base model, while the $100K "foundation series" has every bell and whistle there is. Inflation has taken the $50K to $61K as well.

Are a lot of people disappointed? Of course. But once production catches up with demand and is ramped up enough to get costs down, I expect that a base single motor version will be reasonably affordable.

FWIW, Ford did this with the Lightning too, giving amazing (base) prices at launch and then producing few to none of the base models once it was introduced.

That guys is obviously a troll . No logical person would buy an electric truck to tow a travel trailer. Even if they did why not get a Lightning or Silverado EV over a Tundra.

People really got to get past the truck aspect or any justification for buying one. It's a toy and status symbol just like every other EV out there.

Forget electric. My dream is that someday I'll be able to buy one and get a travel trailer, after Tesla solves the self-driving and self-charging problems, and then I'll be able to pack my stuff and send it ahead to an airport near my destination, fly there and drive it the last mile.

Except when the travel trailer powers itself.

Lightship’s Electric RV Is a Battery Beast That Basically Tows Itself

Lightship’s all-electric L1 RV doesn’t reduce range when it’s being towed and can expand to 10 feet when stationary.

www.inverse.com

"The L1 has its own 80kWH battery that powers an electric drivetrain... This way, you won't have any range or miles per gallon lost"

Lightship’s Electric RV Is a Battery Beast That Basically Tows Itself

Lightship’s all-electric L1 RV doesn’t reduce range when it’s being towed and can expand to 10 feet when stationary.

www.inverse.com

Lightship and Pebble are both working on similar self-powered trailers. I hope at least one of them succeeds and makes something that doesn't suck.

Then, will a standard 30A or 50A campground outlet fit the needs? Lots of handwaving at the practicals of RVing.

That's probably going to be the real issue. While many campgrounds are equipped with 120V/30A TT-30 and/or 240V/50A 14-50 outlets, they generally do not have main power feeds that can keep up with sustained peak loads such as EV charging. All of this stuff is going to need to be able to charge at reduced rates. However, use of some smart-grid tech locally, potentially combined with some solar, might go a long way toward solving this.

 

[DaleB]

Saw my first Cybertruck in the wild today, turning left in front of me. I have to say, the unpainted stainless did make a very satisfying crunching noise as my F150 plowed through it broadside.

OK, I kid. But I did see one. I’m going to be perfectly honest here… the only thought that went through my mind at the time was how much it reminded me me of something out of a really low budget 70s or 80s sci-fi movie.

 

[Spring Ford]

how much it reminded me me of something out of a really low budget 70s or 80s sci-fi movie.

No that looks nothing like a Tesla.

 

[OneCharlieTango]

If you clicked “Buy” back in 2019, was the price locked in?

 

[bflynn]

My question is this, if these EV's are so super awesome, why do we need to incentivize people to buy them? Shouldn't they just, you know, sell themselves?

Rule 1 to understand: Incentives are not for the buyer. They allow the manufacturer to sell at a higher price. If you’re buying an apple for $1 and I give you another dollar so the apple seller can sell it at $2, you should be indifferent.

Incentives are to help companies recoup tooling and startup costs. But not everyone will make it in the new market.

 

[FastEddieB]

If you clicked “Buy” back in 2019, was the price locked in?

There was no “Buy” option in 2019. Just to put a refundable $100 down for a position, and no price was locked in. I don’t recall even having to specify which model I was wanting.

When I was offered to option to complete my order back in March, I declined, for reasons stated upthread. Had one with 500 mile range been a reality for the original $69,900, we’d probably own one today - we could easily manage 250 mile range when towing. Tesla still has our $100, and I assume if and when we’re ready to pull the trigger, we’re still in line. We’re giving it at least a year or more for the prices to come down, the bugs to be worked out, and for at least Autopilot to be available.

As an aside, we’re just starting to see them in the wild in and around Knoxville. Including this one parked at Costco yesterday.

 

[FastEddieB]

As an aside, earlier in the week I finally got the offer of the free week of Full Self Driving. Played with it yesterday.

There’s an expression: “The amazing thing about a singing dog is not that it sings well, it’s that it can sing at all!”.

That’s my impression so far. On the Interstate it’s creepily efficient. Had only one oopsie in maybe 30 miles - it started to change lanes out of the passing lane, not “seeing” a car merging from an entrance ramp. I intervened, though it probably would have handled it eventually. In town, even in the “Chill” setting, acceleration and deceleration were far more aggressive than the way I drive. More tiring to be constantly monitoring it than just driving. Still pretty amazing, though, and a glimpse at what the future holds.

At the current price of $8,000, no way. But it’s now available for $99/month, and I’d consider buying a month here and there for road trips. At a lower monthly rate it would be close to a no-brainer, especially as its capabilities improve.

 

[FastEddieB]

That "subscription" model will prevent me from buying one. Period. Not interested.

Either I own the vehicle 100% when I hand them a check or I will not make the purchase; I have zero interest in playing those sort of cash-siphoning revenue games and validating that mindset from a manufacturer.

NO subscription is required to enjoy a very complete feature set in a Tesla, including Autopilot. A feature set that grows over time at zero cost via Over-the-Air software updates.

I think your outrage in this case is misplaced.

 

[Larry in TN]

In town, even in the “Chill” setting, acceleration and deceleration were far more aggressive than the way I drive. More tiring to be constantly monitoring it than just driving.

Each revision improves the smoothness of how it drives.

It takes a few days to get comfortable with what it can do. Soon, you'll know what it does very well and what situations can cause it problems. That will remove the stress from monitoring and you'll find that using FSD is less stressful than driving yourself.

Your trial is a month, not a week, so you'll have plenty of time to see what it can do. Also, which version of FSD are you running? Most of us are on 12.3.6. 12.4 and 12.5 are due to start rolling out soon.

That "subscription" model will prevent me from buying one. Period. Not interested.

No subscriptions are required.

For FSD, you have a choice; $99/mo or $8,000 for the life of the car. At those prices, the subscription likely works out better for most owners as the breakeven point is nearly seven years. Previously, it was $199/mo or $12,000 which wasn't as good of a deal for the monthly plan.

 

[Salty]

I'm getting rid of my Tesla first chance I get. I'm totally and utterly infuriated that I have to choose between FSD, which I paid $12,000 for and normal cruise control. I mostly just use cruise control. FSD was a cool toy I would occasionally use. Especially in construction, it's a frustrating piece of garbage - and everything within 15 miles of me right now is under construction. Two releases ago they introduced "single push" which means I have to choose before my drive if I want to use adaptive cruise, or FSD. Can't change your mind without putting the car in park. ABSOLUTE BS. I really thought they would fix it after a release or two, but nope. I really can't believe I'm the only one bothered by this theft of value by an intentional software change.

I have to choose between not having a feature I use 90% of the time or not using a feature I paid $12,000 for.

Anybody want a Tesla?

 

[Larry in TN]

...At those prices, I will not purchase. I want to buy a vehicle, not a software license.

There's no requirement to buy FSD. All cars come with Autopilot. FSD is an add-on option.

 

[texasclouds]

 

[Larry in TN]

How do I buy the vehicle without paying for all of the hardware that has been built into it for that feature?

The hardware is used for Autopilot, which is included in every Tesla. Only the additional FSD features cost extra.

But, Teslas are not for everybody. I'm okay with that. I probably wouldn't want the type of car that you drive, either, though I have no interest in describing the reasons why I don't like it to those, like you, who do.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

I'm getting rid of my Tesla first chance I get. I'm totally and utterly infuriated that I have to choose between FSD, which I paid $12,000 for and normal cruise control. I mostly just use cruise control. FSD was a cool toy I would occasionally use. Especially in construction, it's a frustrating piece of garbage - and everything within 15 miles of me right now is under construction. Two releases ago they introduced "single push" which means I have to choose before my drive if I want to use adaptive cruise, or FSD. Can't change your mind without putting the car in park. ABSOLUTE BS. I really thought they would fix it after a release or two, but nope. I really can't believe I'm the only one bothered by this theft of value by an intentional software change.

I have to choose between not having a feature I use 90% of the time or not using a feature I paid $12,000 for.

Anybody want a Tesla?

You have a 3 or a Y?