Talk me out of a Columbia 400

I don't fly an experimental, but my understanding is they are not permitted in Mexico at this time


My source is Baja Bush Pilots.

I did talk to a comandante at one of the airports I fly into. He owns a Rans and he is still letting them in with a warning.
 
FORANE said:
so its been resolved?
I don't know, I've never flown to Mexico.
Click to expand...

According to CST via a post in their Forum on August 12th, 2022 it has. The article you posted is 18 months old. The post I'm referencing was specific to Cancun (MMCN) so there's no info as to when it was actually resolved, just that it is (at least in general). FYI, CST stands for Caribbean Sky Tours and they are a company with offices in the US and Mexico that promotes and facilitates international General Aviation travel to Mexico, Central America and The Bahamas/Caribbean.
 
Last edited:
MonkeyClaw said:
I've been happy with my 400 since I purchased it. They are more complicated than your Piper, and things can break that you've never had to worry about. The folks at Van Bortal are among the best in the business, so anything they say will be on the money. There are parts available (aside from supply chain issues), but what was mentioned near the beginning of the thread re the WAAS upgrade is correct. If you don't have G1000 WAAS, you are unlikely to ever get it. Aside from that, Cessna still supports them. All that said, it's a wonderful airframe and great traveler. I've taken 4+bags from Philly to Orlando and back with no issues (did 1 fuel/potty stop each way). Try to find one with AC, it's worth the weight!

There is a ton of info on https://www.cessnaadvancedaircraftclub.com/ with lots of helpful owners.
Click to expand...

thanks for the info. Joining today
 
So an update on this

The plane I was considering sold before I could make an offer

I have an appointment at Van Bortel this week to look at their inventory

My accountant and my lawyer have talked me into having the company buy the plane and then i will have to pay taxes on my personal use. To be fair to my partner, he will take a bonus to offset my personal use

Problems with this is that in Texas, a company owned plane will have to pay Business Property taxes every year. It's not an insignificant cost

But, the government will basically pay for 40% of the aircraft in the first year as an accelerated depreciation. (Yes, it's more of a loan from them as if it's ever sold that portion of the sales price would need to be paid back in taxes. I hope to be retired at that point, so it's their problem then)

The last person on my checklist to get approval from is my banker. As I have a very big line of credit with him, he may get a little nervous.
 
I didn't see you mention sales tax. Probably you are aware but in Texas (double check me) my understanding is you will pay the ~8% on the sale if put in the business name. If it comes from or goes to an entity with a Tx Comptroller certificate; boom.
Purchased for personal use, I think the Occasional Sale exemption applies.
(8% of ...say $200K is $16000.00 ouch)

AND be sure you closely check the state of origin! Every state is different but you could be on the hook for exit taxes (my term). My hero attorney saved me 5 figures when I bought my last plane. Man, I owe that guy.

Also, there is the liability issue. Here is a question for you (or attorneys, really) - if the biz purchases the plane, and the worst happens - is not the business on the hook for lawsuits?
I think if it's in your personal name, the liability falls only to you, and leaves the business out of it?
That might depend on the purpose of that specific flight, I dunno. Just some thoughts to add to your process.
 
The lawyer basically said I would get sued either way if the worst happens, so not to really worry about it.
 
And yes, in Texas you will have to pay sales tax (6.25%) but would also have to pay it if buying personally if I buy it from a broker

I'll check into the "exit tax". Thanks.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
… If it comes from or goes to an entity with a Tx Comptroller certificate; boom.
Purchased for personal use, I think the Occasional Sale exemption applies.
(8% of ...say $200K is $16000.00 ouch)
…
Click to expand...
Unless a broker is involved.
 
cowtowner said:
This is the plane we are looking at

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/210814029/2007-cessna-400-piston-single-aircraft
Click to expand...

With Van Bortel you will pay a premium, they have nice marketing photos and clean up their airplanes. Any good plane will likely sell the day it’s listed. Get an idea of what you want and keep an eye out daily and be prepared to pull the trigger. Anything sitting on the market for weeks is less desirable and will be harder for you to sell in the future. Mind you that you’re paying a premium right now as airplane prices have gone up considerably.

Separate your business and personal assets, just makes life easier and you add a layer of protection in case someone tries to pull something on you or your business. Thinking “they’ll get you anyway” is foolish, risk management and proper set up is important.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Also, there is the liability issue. Here is a question for you (or attorneys, really) - if the biz purchases the plane, and the worst happens - is not the business on the hook for lawsuits?
I think if it's in your personal name, the liability falls only to you, and leaves the business out of it?
That might depend on the purpose of that specific flight, I dunno. Just some thoughts to add to your process.
Click to expand...

If you’re flying the plane, you’re responsible, always. LLCs and other corporations only protect you from your partners.
So if your partner is involved in an incident while flying the plane, they can only go after the corporation’s assets (as well as the partner’s).
The business is on the hook, but you won’t be.
 
Found a plane yesterday, local to me and a good price. Going in for Pre Buy next week.

Biggest downfall of this plane, no AC. But after reading all the problems on the forum specifically for these planes, and the spendy maintenance of the AC with it still not working well, I'll make due over spending the extra dollars for the others on the market of similar vintage that have it. This bird was recently upgraded with new IFD440's to replace both 430's, new audio panel and transponder. It's on the field where Van Bortel is, and has been maintained by them for 12 years. We will see when they tear it all apart next week.

It is an older model with Avidine PFD/MFD and STEC55X autopilot. To get into a G1000 waas with the garmin AP would be touching $500k
 
cowtowner said:
It's on the field where Van Bortel is, and has been maintained by them for 12 years. We will see when they tear it all apart next week.
Click to expand...
Who is they? Are you saying that Van Bortel maintained the plane for 12 years, and Van Bortel is also doing the pre-buy?
 
Sluggo63 said:
Who is they? Are you saying that Van Bortel maintained the plane for 12 years, and Van Bortel is also doing the pre-buy?
Click to expand...

No, my A&P that has some experience with the Columbia's is doing it
 
Tarheelpilot said:
At his level of experience I think this would be a bad idea.
Click to expand...

I got into a Lancair 360 when I had ~220 hours total time. It was a non-issue. Not all hours are created equal, and granted, aptitude levels vary from person to person, but I think it's a mistake to rule someone out of a Lancair based on having 500TT.

If an experimental is an option, a IV-P can be had for under $300k that will do 270ktas+ if speed is the goal. Alternatively for ~$250k there is a Super ES (fixed gear, like the 400TT) which is the predecessor to the Columbia 350 and 400, which became the Cessna 400TT.

My guess is the recurring maintenance on the Super ES will be considerably less than the 400TT. Of course, experimental vs certified is hardly a fair fight, but I wanted to make sure the OP had examples of what was out there.
 
coma24 said:
I got into a Lancair 360 when I had ~220 hours total time. It was a non-issue. Not all hours are created equal, and granted, aptitude levels vary from person to person, but I think it's a mistake to rule someone out of a Lancair based on having 500TT.

If an experimental is an option, a IV-P can be had for under $300k that will do 270ktas+ if speed is the goal. Alternatively for ~$250k there is a Super ES (fixed gear, like the 400TT) which is the predecessor to the Columbia 350 and 400, which became the Cessna 400TT.

My guess is the recurring maintenance on the Super ES will be considerably less than the 400TT. Of course, experimental vs certified is hardly a fair fight, but I wanted to make sure the OP had examples of what was out there.
Click to expand...
Without an instrument rating I believe the airplane is to much for anyone to safely use for travel. That’s the basis of my opinion not total time.

In regards to your comments about the experimental prequels of the Columbia the certified version was so heavily redesigned they just look similar. They have very different envelopes and behaviors at the margins. I think it’s unreasonable to recommend an experimental 4-p as a similar machine to the certified airframe.

as it is we are just sharing opinions. Interesting conversation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top