Study of motorcycle crashes

denverpilot

denverpilot

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I haven’t ridden consistently in a long long time, but I know a number of you here do.

Ran across this article on a study done on a fairly decent sized group of riders using cameras and modern tech to document the crashes instead of eyewitness testimony and less reliable sources.

What I found fascinating was two things...

Riders are twice as likely to rear-end a car than a car trying to or hitting them. (Goes against the “common knowledge” that “cagers” are the biggest danger to a rider...)

And Riders are nearly as likely to drop their own bike (often “harmlessly” but also at speed) than be hit by a car. (Again, against the “common knowledge”.)

Interestingly once I read those things then I equated it back to Aviation and realized... yup... pilots are their own worst enemies, always, before outside “forces” or the decisions of others.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tre...ed-about-how-and-why-we-crash-our-motorcycles

Anyway, sharing... figured the regular riders here would find it interesting too. Be careful out there, y’all.
 
When I read that article, I immediately thought of the discussions we have here where folks confidently claim X kind of accident will never happen to them because ...

What I have found interesting over the 40 years I've been a biker is that the kinds of accidents srem to be evolving as the performance of the bikes increases, but I've not really done any research on it.
 
It's funny that you post this article. I had a friend that did her PhD at Virginia Tech studying motorcycle crashes. I think she was (at least for part of her work) looking into collisions with guardrails.
 
Long ago during my 45 years driving over the highways and byways of the US, I concluded a few things when it comes to the different vehicles on the road.

Motorcycle riders are a danger to themselves.

Truckers are a danger to most everyone else.

Car drivers are usually the ones that seem to take the most care.

That third one though is no longer as true with the prevalence of talking and texting while driving.
 
In the city, my right hand never leaves the brake lever and I slow at every intersection where there is a car in the left turn lane. I leave a ton of space in front as well, but that’s so I don’t get pinched with someone tailgating me and nowhere to go. That seemed to be the worst problem I had the last couple years, which parallels the findings that many crashes are ramming into vehicles ahead of you. It’s real hard to get a car off your ass when in traffic, and it takes your attention off what’s in front of you. I’ve even been tailgated by cops that wouldn’t back off.

I’ve commuted to work on a bike for many years, and have never had an accident on the street (crashed twice on the race track). But I sold my last bike to buy a plane, so my life expectancy has probably gone way up.
 
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denverpilot said:
And Riders are nearly as likely to drop their own bike
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Can’t pin this on the rider everytime (unless they say they studied each one, didnt read) as many drops are a response to what a cager does (pulling out in front, esp).
 
I commuted for decades on my motorcycles.
My scariest encounters were with:
1. Deer.
2. Guys on construction equipment backing out onto the road.
3. Woman doing make-up in the car.
4. People stuck in traffic and losing focus.
 
Bikers don't die when they drop their bikes (the Negrini is the only bike I've ever owned that I haven't dropped... yet). Bikers don't die if they rear end someone unless they're going really, really fast. Bikers often die when inattentive cagers run into them. And yes, bikers often die when they hit guardrails, signage, curbs and various other things. These events often involve drugs and alcohol, those I've lost from such incidents were every one of them high on something.
 
denverpilot said:
And Riders are nearly as likely to drop their own bike (often “harmlessly” but also at speed) than be hit by a car. (Again, against the “common knowledge”.)
Click to expand...
I actually think common knowledge amongst riders themselves (whether they admit it or not) is that dropping bikes at low speed is VERY common.....too many high seat height/short inseam riders out there with bikes that are too weighty on uneven surfaces.
Also the likelihood of dropping one’s bike is in direct proportion to the number of interested observers of same.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Can’t pin this on the rider everytime (unless they say they studied each one, didnt read) as many drops are a response to what a cager does (pulling out in front, esp).
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And this belief is part of the problem...unless you are hit, you should not drop your bike: I commonly hear guys say, "I laid it down to avoid an accident." Well guess what: laying a bike down IS AN ACCIDENT! A bike is more stoppable, more turn-able, more controllable in EVERY WAY, while still upright on two tires (or upright on one tire, as is often the case with braking a modern short wheel-base bike), as opposed to sliding on it's side. (Coefficient of friction on a sliding bike is usually around .4, on motorcycle tires braking it is as high as 1.2)
Note: I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn express, but I am a state certified advanced accident reconstructionist...
 
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tawood said:
And this belief is part of the problem
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I have read about and attended two bike accidents where a biker was all alone and laid it down so I know what you are talking about. My 'belief' as you call it, in which I say some are due to people pulling their car out in front of the bike is based upon innumerable accident reports in which the bike did contact a vehicle that simple did not see the biker and pulled into space he was just about to occupy.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I have read about and attended two bike accidents where a biker was all alone and laid it down so I know what you are talking about. My 'belief' as you call it, in which I say some are due to people pulling their car out in front of the bike is based upon innumerable accident reports in which the bike did contact a vehicle that simple did not see the biker and pulled into space he was just about to occupy.
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I wasn't clear, sorry...I wasn't really meaning YOUR belief...just that there is a common belief, amongst cyclists, that somehow "laying a bike down" is better than driving into an accident. That belief is what I was talking about...
 
And expounding further on what I was trying to say...
If riders didn't lay their bikes down when a car pulls out in front of them, but instead swerve or brake (or some combination of both), there would be a great reduction in those types of accidents.
So, its not the motorcyclist's fault that someone violates their right-of-way, but it still is at least partially their fault (due to lack of skill, etc) that it resulted in an accident.
 
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I wonder how the results of the study are different for the group who have cameras attached to their bikes, compared to the much, much larger group who does not. I suspect (and it is just that, a suspicion) that the riders less likely to ride in a way that increases their risk, are also far less likely to attach a video camera to the bike or helmet.
 
Oddly enough, yesterday I was behind a guy on a smaller cruiser (Sportster or similar) while we were in a line of about 25 cars waiting to get through a 4-way stop. I thought the guy was going to hit the back of the car ahead of him at least a dozen times. He had a tendency to give it too much throttle while letting the clutch out in order to move up 5-6ft at a time, then getting grabby on the front brake to get stopped less than a foot from the bumper of the car ahead of him. I watched it repeat over and over, in addition to watching his awkward foot placement during the ordeal. I assume he was just a "green" rider and hadn't gotten used to the proper amounts of clutch/throttle input. For all I know, he's been riding like that for decades, but I doubt it.

My father's Stratoliner (much heavier bike than this guy was on) takes relatively little-to-no throttle input while letting out the clutch slowly if you're just moving forward a few feet on flat ground.
 
DaleB said:
I wonder how the results of the study are different for the group who have cameras attached to their bikes, compared to the much, much larger group who does not. I suspect (and it is just that, a suspicion) that the riders less likely to ride in a way that increases their risk, are also far less likely to attach a video camera to the bike or helmet.
Click to expand...

I thought that riders who volunteer for a safety study would be less likely to take risks.
 
Riding a bike is just like flying an airplane. You keep in control all the way into a crash.
 
When I started I was familiar with all the "common knowledge" about cars being the problem. Then I started ready accident statistics and discovered that over 40% of motorcycle fatalities don't involve any other vehicle. I started with the MSF course and at least half the people in my group had years of experience and just decided to take the course to improve themselves. The stuff these people didn't know was shocking. A lot of people don't understand countersteering and are convinced that they steer their bike by leaning their body or something. No wonder so many people hit stop signs and trees etc.

And I've even heard cops advising motorcyclists to a few mph faster than the traffic they're in for safety, despite the fact that the danger is overwhelmingly from things in front of you, not behind you.
 
injb said:
When I started I was familiar with all the "common knowledge" about cars being the problem. Then I started ready accident statistics and discovered that over 40% of motorcycle fatalities don't involve any other vehicle. I started with the MSF course and at least half the people in my group had years of experience and just decided to take the course to improve themselves. The stuff these people didn't know was shocking. A lot of people don't understand countersteering and are convinced that they steer their bike by leaning their body or something. No wonder so many people hit stop signs and trees etc.

And I've even heard cops advising motorcyclists to a few mph faster than the traffic they're in for safety, despite the fact that the danger is overwhelmingly from things in front of you, not behind you.
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I think the most shocking "lack of knowledge" concerning motorcyclists is braking...especially front vs rear braking...what to do during tire lock-up (modern anti-locks can help in this regard), and how to maximum-performance brake. My personal experience (albeit with a "relatively" low-sample of being an accident investigator on about 100 motorcycle accidents, and being a police motor officer) is that the lower the performance the motorcycle, the more likely that some simple training could have prevented, or at least lessened the severity of, the accident. The higher performance bikes... usually just need to slow down.
 
Great, here's one more thing that I can't blame on someone else. /s I have a nice commute for a motorcycle without much traffic and few intersections, but as Shepherd mentioned, deer can be a concern.
 
dmspilot said:
I thought that riders who volunteer for a safety study would be less likely to take risks.
Click to expand...
I got the impression it wasn't a group of volunteers, but video collected after the fact. Using a group of volunteers would pretty much make any results meaningless except as applied to that group of volunteers.

Either that, or they were able to get an exceptionally crappy group of riders to equip with cameras right before they crashed.
 
I have about 75,000 miles on street bikes. It all came to an end about 20 years ago when I crashed. I would describe my riding style as "aggressively defensive", I'm not fast and I always did my best to put a car between myself and any possible collision where I could. That time, I just couldn't avoid it, I was going through an intersection when some tool in a pickup truck decided I wasn't there and turned left directly in front of me. It was all I could to to get my fingers on the brake level before I hit him. I haven't been on one since, I promised my wife that I wouldn't get another one until my daughters were grown, which is a few years away. I am going to rent one later this summer, and at that time I'm going to add another rule to my traffic avoidance set: When going through an intersection where someone wants to turn left, get up close to the car in front of you. If I'd been close to the car that preceded me through the intersection, the pickup driver would have been behind me.
 
DaleB said:
I got the impression it wasn't a group of volunteers, but video collected after the fact.
Click to expand...

The VTTI researchers recruited 100 riders from age 21 to 79 in California, Arizona, Florida and Virginia. They outfitted their motorcycles with video cameras showing the rider’s face and forward, rear, left and right views. GPS and data loggers captured other information, such as brake pressure, acceleration, etc.
Click to expand...

???
 
My first scene site in EMS was a motorcycle wreck. Someone cut the guy off and escaped with just a broken leg. Since then I’ve flown too many to count with all types of injuries. I support the choice of riding bikes but from the things that I’ve seen, no way I’d do it. Too much risk in my life already.
 
I've been riding motorcycles for the better part of three decades, can't say how many miles. I've crashed, even documented it on this site. That said, I've never been hurt and the bike I crashed still runs today (asusming the guy I sold it to fixed all the stuff that broke after I sold it to him). I think my Steiney sense keeps me out of a lot of grief, I usually spot the guy turning left into me before he does it and am out of the way before it can happen. So far so good.

Thing is, I'm the klutziest guy you'll ever meet. I'm probably the worst rider there is, I've never even popped a wheelie, done a racing turn, or read a book. But I've kept out of major grief, and I rode one of the fastest bikes there is for over a decade. It can be done.

Steingar, the guy hoping not to eat crow about this (though if I don't I suspect this thread will be the least of my worries).
 
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Of course this is an exception, but most of the motorcycle accidents here in my area are the fault of the rider.

Such as trying to imitate movies, front wheel stands, wheelies at speed on the interstate, standing on the bike at speed, speeding, lane splitting at twice the speed limit, running red lights and stop signs because I am too cool to stop, etc... Mostly locals are doing this. And alcohol is usually involved.

Now that winter is mostly over we are already getting large groups of bikers going through. They pretty much come through quietly and safely and obeying traffic laws. 5 or 6 years ago one couple traveling by themselves hit the back of a car with the husband suffering massive leg injuries. The church I belong to helped the wife get to Albuquerque, where her husband was life flighted to, then took care of their belongings until their relatives arranged to have everything but the bike shipped back to Kentucky.

Several years ago a guy was lane splitting on the interstate. He hit a car knocking him off the bike and under the car behind him. That young couple was so traumatized that they shipped their car home and took the train, cancelling their delayed honey moon. Sad deal all around.
 
Interesting stuff. My idea of two-wheeled fun is a dual sport bike...I used to have a couple of Honda XLs, then more recently a Suzuki DRZ400. At the time, I lived quite near Silverado Canyon where I could ride up on the network of trails/fire roads and go to the top of Saddleback (twin peaks around 5500'), or ride down Indian Truck Trail toward Corona to Tom's Farms, etc. Miles and miles of trails there, just minutes from SoCal suburbia.

Riding on the dirt gives you a freedom similar to what you get in a light aircraft, and the best thing is that if you get hurt or killed, there's a 95 percent chance that it was caused by your own bonehead move, not some drunken idiot running a red light, or a teen scrolling through Instagram instead of paying attention to the road. In our little planes it's much the same; operator error is most likely to be your downfall. That's actually pretty refreshing.
 
denverpilot said:
I haven’t ridden consistently in a long long time, but I know a number of you here do.

Ran across this article on a study done on a fairly decent sized group of riders using cameras and modern tech to document the crashes instead of eyewitness testimony and less reliable sources.

What I found fascinating was two things...

Riders are twice as likely to rear-end a car than a car trying to or hitting them. (Goes against the “common knowledge” that “cagers” are the biggest danger to a rider...)

And Riders are nearly as likely to drop their own bike (often “harmlessly” but also at speed) than be hit by a car. (Again, against the “common knowledge”.)

Interestingly once I read those things then I equated it back to Aviation and realized... yup... pilots are their own worst enemies, always, before outside “forces” or the decisions of others.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tre...ed-about-how-and-why-we-crash-our-motorcycles

Anyway, sharing... figured the regular riders here would find it interesting too. Be careful out there, y’all.
Click to expand...

#1. Though i didn't know that, it's not surprising. Braking distances on the bike are typically much longer largely due to braking skills being much worse. This is somewhat true for cars, but in cars stability and tech allow for just mashing the pedal. That produces bad result for motorcycles without ABS. Unfortunately, it's not really easy to practice threshold braking on the street. And it's a skill that needs a lot of practice.

#2. Totally common knowledge. While this probably varies by types of bikes, single vehicle accidents are some of the most common ones. At least in a sport bike world. Over 20 years, I've had a few accidents. Nearly all of them did not involve other vehicles. Most were very minor(like dropping the bike during low speed maneuvering). All "major" were my own doing
 
genna said:
#1. Though i didn't know that, it's not surprising. Braking distances on the bike are typically much longer largely due to braking skills being much worse. This is somewhat true for cars, but in cars stability and tech allow for just mashing the pedal. That produces bad result for motorcycles without ABS. Unfortunately, it's not really easy to practice threshold braking on the street. And it's a skill that needs a lot of practice.

#2. Totally common knowledge. While this probably varies by types of bikes, single vehicle accidents are some of the most common ones. At least in a sport bike world
Click to expand...

I was always taught (many years ago) that a bike could easily out-brake a four wheeler.

As you say, though... skill is required and many people won’t get on the front brake nearly hard enough for fear of dumping it. Many haven’t practiced maximum braking on a bike until they do it for the first time in a panic.
 
tawood said:
To anyone that rides I recommend the book Proficient Motorcycling. It may have saved my life.

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&k...&hvtargid=kwd-95755455&ref=pd_sl_5lp1p9l65o_e
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Excellent recommendation, as is the sequel.

For those of us who enjoy "brisk" riding I'd also toss in Sport Riding Techniques ( https://www.amazon.com/Sport-Riding-Techniques-Develop-Confidence/dp/1893618072 ) and A Twist Of the Wrist ( https://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BS069PYB26G8QDPAC46V ).
 
denverpilot said:
I was always taught (many years ago) that a bike could easily out-brake a four wheeler.

As you say, though... skill is required and many people won’t get on the front brake nearly hard enough for fear of dumping it. Many haven’t practiced maximum braking on a bike until they do it for the first time in a panic.
Click to expand...

Maybe that was true many years ago, but modern cars brake much better than bikes. Even high performance bikes. Even if both deploy best maximum braking technique. This is largely due to modern tires and a lot more of them and more of a contact patch in the car. Skills, or lack of thereof, exacerbate this problem further.

it's hard to find test data for motorcycles, but i found this

http://msf-usa.org/downloads/imsc2006/Green-Comparison_of_Stopping_Distance-Paper.pdf

While the purpose of this is to compare ABS vs no ABS on motorcycles, the stopping test on BMW F650 was done from 70mph. Around 66m: 216ft

By comparison, new Toyota Camry does 70-0 in 167ft:
https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/camry
 
genna said:
Maybe that was true many years ago, but modern cars brake much better than bikes. Even high performance bikes. Even if both deploy best maximum braking technique. This is largely due to modern tires and a lot more of them and more of a contact patch in the car. Skills, or lack of thereof, exacerbate this problem further.

it's hard to find test data for motorcycles, but i found this

http://msf-usa.org/downloads/imsc2006/Green-Comparison_of_Stopping_Distance-Paper.pdf

While the purpose of this is to compare ABS vs no ABS on motorcycles, the stopping test on BMW F650 was done from 70mph. Around 66m: 216ft

By comparison, new Toyota Camry does 70-0 in 167ft:
https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/camry
Click to expand...

Good to know. I wouldn’t get back on a bike these days without all new training and it probably would be covered, but always interesting to learn something from a random post of an article for y’all.
 
Also, with ABS modern cars can turn while maximum braking. Bikes can't really do that even with ABS(loads on rider and front wheel pretty much prevent that).
 
If you say so. The one time I tested it I stopped my liter sport bike from 45mph to nothing in a car length and a half. Surprised even me. My bike now won't do that, its 100 lbs heavier. And the 650's and 600s will do even better, they've the same brakes and they're lighter. Bikes have less rubber on the road, but they weigh a fraction of a car. That, and all a car can do is brake. A bike can go around stuff. I've done that more times than I can count.

Like I said, if a klutz like me can ride from the 80's to now, anyone can do it.

And find me a car who's name doesn't sound like a pasta dish that can stop from 60 to nothing in 100 feet. Most of the cars I see on the road couldn't do it, and most don't get the mileage of my airplane which was built in 1962.
 
steingar said:
If you say so. The one time I tested it I stopped my liter sport bike from 45mph to nothing in a car length and a half. Surprised even me. My bike now won't do that, its 100 lbs heavier. And the 650's and 600s will do even better, they've the same brakes and they're lighter. Bikes have less rubber on the road, but they weigh a fraction of a car. That, and all a car can do is brake. A bike can go around stuff. I've done that more times than I can count.

Like I said, if a klutz like me can ride from the 80's to now, anyone can do it.

And find me a car who's name doesn't sound like a pasta dish that can stop from 60 to nothing in 100 feet. Most of the cars I see on the road couldn't do it, and most don't get the mileage of my airplane which was built in 1962.
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I didn't make the numbers up. They are what they are.

I want to point out that R1 is on the level with very high performance cars, it's not your average motorcycle. An average bike would be a couple of hundred pounds heavier with a lot less brakes. Which, I assume, will take a lot longer to brake. But since you asked, Honda Civic Si: 102 feet(I did say, "just over 100ft") : http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/road_tests/2017-honda-civic-si

As far as weight of MC vs car... it's not that simple. 1L bike with fluids and rider can weigh close to 600lb. That's about 1/6 of the Civic above. But, in maximum braking your traction is limited to a small contact patch on the round(profile) front tire(rear is practically weightless at that point). Maybe a few cm wide. That is a very small area. Car has 4 tires with contact of full width of the square tire as wide as 25cm in all 4 corners(front is also more important). That is a lot more friction and a lot more braking traction. A loaded touring bike can weigh well over 1500lb and still have a tiny contact patch.

Although 600s will probably stop a little sooner, i suspect the difference is not that big. Their actual weight isn't a lot less than 1L bike. See post 32 for BMW F650.
 
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dmspilot said:
???
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Oh -- my bad!! I must have missed the link the first time around. So they saw 30 actual accidents of whatever sort, and what they interpreted as "near" crashes in a group of volunteer riders.

100 riders, an average of less than 4K miles per rider, and there were 30 crash or near crash events? Holy crap. I mean, if you include "tipped the bike over in a parking lot" it might be reasonable, but that seems like an awful lot.
 
When I had my motorcycle courier business, I rode on average 300 miles per day 5 days per week in the heart of Phoenix city traffic. Did that for about 3 years until I sold the business. In all that time of riding, I only went down once and that was due to hitting a fresh patch of antifreeze just as I was coming to a stop at a light. Slid through the intersection and had the bike picked up and on to the sidewalk in about 5 seconds to avoid getting hit by any traffic. Inspected the bike for any damage, then hopped on and continued on my way.

Riding that many miles per day in the thick of traffic, you develop a "6th sense" and can anticipate the stupid moves that people are going to make before they even make them. Nothing ever came as a surprise to me. Each intersection, I expected somebody to make a left turn in front of me. Same goes for people pulling out of parking lots or gas stations, I expected them not to see me and rode accordingly. That's basically how you survive on a bike. Always try to read and anticipate your opponent's next move.

I always kept my spidey senses when street riding and would often further my skills by practicing with the motor cops who competed in the rodeos. It was always a good time playing/practicing with those guys and I would always get invited to ride in their rodeos even though I wasn't a cop.
 
azblackbird said:
Riding that many miles per day in the thick of traffic, you develop a "6th sense" and can anticipate the stupid moves that people are going to make before they even make them. Nothing ever came as a surprise to me.
Click to expand...

That works well for cars, too. You can avoid so many potential accidents if you're focused and scanning ahead.
 
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