Hocky
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Hocky
Well excuse me! So what else did I miss that you know for certain that I missed or are you just shooting from the hip right there?
I think you are.
Student pilot landing at OSH during show? Allowed?
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Well excuse me! So what else did I miss that you know for certain that I missed or are you just shooting from the hip right there?
I think you are.
Hocky
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Hocky
Well some people are more timid than others, what can I say? That is nothing to be ashamed of.
DesertNomad
Pattern Altitude
I am not sure if the OP is for real, but if he is going to OSH with that attitude, I think I'll just stay west of the Rockies.
tngarner
Pre-Flight
Here is a thought. Post when you plan to arrive. I bet it will only be you and a few other overly confident pilots. Good luck to you. I just hope no one is seriously hurt when you learn that being a pilot is only a licence to continue learning nothing more.
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Hocky
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Hocky
The plan is early on Sunday morning. Contrary to popular belief I do actually want to be cautious and come in when it is less busy.
I will announce myself "Hocky" as I turn downwind to base. Any POA'ers present then owe me a sixpack. I will not bother to bring beer with me because I will be well stocked by all of you.
If I die, well then I hope you were entertained and I hope I die well and with dignity.
Lawreston
En-Route
Well excuse me! So what else did I miss that you know for certain that I missed or are you just shooting from the hip right there?
Careful, Hocky; Attitude is showing, previously referenced as arrogance(or belligerence), and neither shall be welcome in the cockpit.
HR
. Flying doesn't care for arrogance or cockiness. Its an unforgiving hobby and you might end up in a ball of flames one day
jdennis1989
Pre-takeoff checklist
The plan is early on Sunday morning. Contrary to popular belief I do actually want to be cautious and come in when it is less busy.
I will announce myself "Hocky" as I turn downwind to base. Any POA'ers present then owe me a sixpack. I will not bother to bring beer with me because I will be well stocked by all of you.
If I die, well then I hope you were entertained and I hope I die well and with dignity.
I don't plan on getting mixed up in this debate, but if you really do attempt this post or msg me your N-number. Saturday and Sunday my dad and I usually set up near the flight line and bird watch. I'll have pictures and video of either the greaser landing or crash however it happens to end up.
dans2992
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I've been into OSH a couple of times. My main thought was, "It's amazing there are not more mid-airs!"
Once, departing Appleton in a 152, just after liftoff (prior to 400 ft AGL) some guy in an Aerostar flew directly _over_ me. It's just insanely busy.
Once, departing Appleton in a 152, just after liftoff (prior to 400 ft AGL) some guy in an Aerostar flew directly _over_ me. It's just insanely busy.
warthog1984
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LanCA'r
Hocky:
Relax and cool the jets for a little while.
It sounds like you do not have much experience with precision landing and/or congested airspace. If so, the most congested airspace in the world and the multi-dot runway is not the place to learn.
Not saying that you can't, under ideal conditions, but sounds like you are not leaving yourself any out for when things go wrong (and something will go wrong, guaranteed).
Flying into OSH is a great experience, but take it from somebody who planned a 300nm XC into a Bravo the day after his checkride- build up to it. If you don't have experience with Class C, XCs, and FF, get it. If you're familiar with Charlies, go into a Bravo during a moderate time. Once you're comfortable with flying into primary/secondary for the Bravo, then go to OSH.
I'm sure you're a great pilot, but you are still a student or new PP- give yourself some elbow room, for everybody's sake.
Relax and cool the jets for a little while.
It sounds like you do not have much experience with precision landing and/or congested airspace. If so, the most congested airspace in the world and the multi-dot runway is not the place to learn.
Not saying that you can't, under ideal conditions, but sounds like you are not leaving yourself any out for when things go wrong (and something will go wrong, guaranteed).
Flying into OSH is a great experience, but take it from somebody who planned a 300nm XC into a Bravo the day after his checkride- build up to it. If you don't have experience with Class C, XCs, and FF, get it. If you're familiar with Charlies, go into a Bravo during a moderate time. Once you're comfortable with flying into primary/secondary for the Bravo, then go to OSH.
I'm sure you're a great pilot, but you are still a student or new PP- give yourself some elbow room, for everybody's sake.
asgcpa
En-Route
Watching a little TV Ed? That commercial always cracks me up.
asgcpa
En-Route
Agree 1,000 percent. I'm a PPASEL and working on my instrument rating. I'm driving to OSH. Too much going on.
Jhernandez04
Line Up and Wait
You strike me as a bold pilot.
YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!!!!
Damn right. You shouldn't try it until you have a few hundred hours and even then if you're so current that you can fly the plane through the eye of a needle.
asgcpa
En-Route
What's that saying? There are bold pilots. There are old pilots. But very few bold old pilots.
Jhernandez04
Line Up and Wait
Hank S
En-Route
I went to Sun-n-Fun with about 400 hours, and a pilot in the right seat to help watch for traffic. Got there just as the field was opening after the airshow, thanks to early morning fog that I didn't want to take off through. [I like the option of landing again just in case.]
It was a circus! At one point, I was able to count twelve (12) planes bobbing and weaving in line in front of me in less than a mile's distance; the one I was instructed to follow was going up and down 100' or more, and flew past the first two turns by a good ¼ mile each. Then as I was lining up to land behind him, on short final 100-150' agl, ATC told me to step sideways from 9R [the taxiway] to 9L [the big runway], then made me fly past the intersecting runway before they told me I could land. That was a mile, in slow flight, at 20-30' agl.
Are you up to that?
To say nothing of the idiots who turn the wrong way, fly too fast, can't speed up to 90 knots, misunderstand ATC, have old batteries in their handheld radios, don't follow instructions well, etc. There's a reason the FAA keeps vehicles parked beside the runway, to catch a few clowns after they land, like the guy who ignores the NOTAM and lands against traffic in his twin.
Then realize that this is Oshkosh, not Lakeland, so expect four times as many planes.
If you insist on going, take someone with you to look for traffic and idiots on the right side, as you'll be plenty busy watching them out the left!
It was a circus! At one point, I was able to count twelve (12) planes bobbing and weaving in line in front of me in less than a mile's distance; the one I was instructed to follow was going up and down 100' or more, and flew past the first two turns by a good ¼ mile each. Then as I was lining up to land behind him, on short final 100-150' agl, ATC told me to step sideways from 9R [the taxiway] to 9L [the big runway], then made me fly past the intersecting runway before they told me I could land. That was a mile, in slow flight, at 20-30' agl.
Are you up to that?
To say nothing of the idiots who turn the wrong way, fly too fast, can't speed up to 90 knots, misunderstand ATC, have old batteries in their handheld radios, don't follow instructions well, etc. There's a reason the FAA keeps vehicles parked beside the runway, to catch a few clowns after they land, like the guy who ignores the NOTAM and lands against traffic in his twin.
Then realize that this is Oshkosh, not Lakeland, so expect four times as many planes.
If you insist on going, take someone with you to look for traffic and idiots on the right side, as you'll be plenty busy watching them out the left!
Darsh
Pre-Flight
Re: Student Solo at Airventure
Just because you legally CAN do something doesn't mean you should. For example, a newly minted PPL can legally fly into KORD without any special training or minimum hour requirement. Is this a good idea? Absolutely not. KORD's taxiways alone cause confusion for even ATP's. Similar idea here, but on a wayyy less scale.
Just because you legally CAN do something doesn't mean you should. For example, a newly minted PPL can legally fly into KORD without any special training or minimum hour requirement. Is this a good idea? Absolutely not. KORD's taxiways alone cause confusion for even ATP's. Similar idea here, but on a wayyy less scale.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I've just learned that things online are not always as they seem. Especially when people know the right chum to toss in the water, and/or are getting help from people already belonging to the forum.
DFH65
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I can't imagine trying to do this when I was a newly minted PPASEL without someone in the back helping me look and listen. A lot going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejXdXKdDhVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejXdXKdDhVE
steingar
Taxi to Parking
I first flew into Oshkosh about 6 months after getting my private. I had no one but me, no load for a passenger. Everything went smooth as an infants derrier. That said, it could have been far worse, and has been in some years.
If the OP can convince an examiner that he can safely pilot and aircraft says me come on in. It is his privilege as a private pilot. It really isn't that big a deal.
Now Sun N Fun, what a mess! I wouldn't advise anyone to fly into that, bleeech! My one approach was one of the most dangerous things I've ever done in an aircraft, indeed one of the most dangerous ever. Sidestep for that aircraft, and oh, make way for the gyro. WHAT GYRO! Oh cripes, 100 feet off the ground and what's my AIRSPEED! I've never operated so close to another aircraft even when I flew in formation. Ii am genuinely surprised no one's had a mid air there. Smaller I guess.
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Velocity173
Same thing I thought when I went there. I flew in there in 2009 in the Glasair just as a thunderstorm was clearing the area. There were aircraft all over trying to get in because everyone was waiting for the storm to clear. I did one lap at Ripon and was getting ready to turn in when I saw a whole stream of LSAs inbound. I just didn't feel comfortable flying above that mess so I tucked in behind tail end charlie and followed at 90 kts. Everything was going until short final when ATC launched an LSA in front of me. As I'm touching down on the dot I was looking up into his tail lifting off about 500 ft in front of me. As I was taxiing into parking I hear ATC "Cessna on final to rwy nine go around! Go around!" I look to see a C-210 going around and a Citation just eating him up maybe 1/4 mile behind him.
Departure was just as eventful. I was taxiing behind an RV-4 and a P-51 was behind me. We were going off 36 R with the quick right turn before the tower. The RV-4 does a SH climbing right turn and I was getting ready to out do him. ATC says "Glasair cleared for takeoff with a right turn before the tower." I start to roll and I hear "hold it Glasair! Cancel takeoff clearance!" I look up and some high wing flys 50 ft above me and lands out in front. Unbelievable.
To the OP, the event isn't dangerous but it requires everyone being on their game. There have been accidents at both OSH and LAL with pilots because they didn't have the SA to fly their aircraft, monitor the chatter on the radios and look out for all the traffic that's trying to kill you out there.
I'll give you a perfect example on a guy I used to know who flew into LAL. He was an older gentleman who built a Hummelbird single seat VW aircraft. It was a beautiful build with a P-51 paint job and even a little drop tank on the bottom. After he had completed the required test hours for flyoff, he was ready to take it down to LAL and show it off for the fly in. He was a low time VFR pilot and hadn't done a cross country in years. An instructor buddy of mine prepped him for the flight but he told me he was worried about his proficiency going into that type of airspace. Anyway, his flight down was uneventful. While there, his aircraft was quite the attraction and he was put in the show plane area. Unfortunately he was pressured to fly during the display portion...the ultralight display portion. His Hummelbird could easily cruise over 100 kts on that little VW engine and wasn't designed to be flying around at slow flight with a bunch of ultralights. During one of the turns he got too slow and spun it into a parking lot. He was seriously injured and spent a few months in the hospital down in LAL recovering. His beautiful aircraft completely destroyed.
So to the OP, I admire your confidence and wanting to be part of the OSH experience but you have to keep it in check. Over confidence coupled with almost a "get there itis" type attitude can sometimes end badly. Even experienced pilots have wrecked aircraft at OSH and LAL because of a pressure to perform and a lack of SA of their surroundings. Be careful.
JB1842
En-Route
So the OP is thinking he is a better pilot than most others, including his CFI's; he thinks that flying into Oshkosh is as simple as the NOTAM says; and in a previous thread he only cares about airplanes that have a certain "cool" factor. Either this guy has a serious case of little man/little d-ck syndrome, or we are all falling into some trolls trap. Maybe I'm wrong, and I sort of hope I am, but I hope the OP gets some humble pie in his belly on his own choosing before he is forced to get some by hurting himself or others.
Hocky
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Hocky
Yeah. That's a pretty cool cliche isn't it?
It must be right since it rhymes?
Plenty of 70+ year old pilots doing things you wouldn't even attempt in your dreams. There is a difference between bold pilots and reckless pilots.
Well frankly, I don't see that a well-trained student pilot is any worse off than the average Oshkosh pilot. New pilots tend to be very careful with their planning and more adherent to the regs than a lot of the old salts. Many of the old salts haven't got half the recent flight experience this person has.
Hocky
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Hocky
"Oh look someone who is braver than me and is flying something nicer. Man I'm jealous! Oh, I know, I'll just say he has a small dick. Yeah. That makes me feel better now! He may have a nicer plane but his dick is as small as mine."
azure
Final Approach
Re: Student Solo at Airventure
Why do you want to rush your training just to be ready in time for OSH? You can still get there, with a friend or an instructor, or you can fly into a nearby field like ATW or FLD. Tbh, I'm not sure why people are so keen on flying directly into OSH. I have over 1000 hours and I've never flown into that zoo. I have no particular interest in doing so, either. Too many average pilots interested in showing off their great skills by many accounts, not to mention idiots who can't follow instructions.
Until this post I thought it was a hypothetical question and everyone was just giving you a hard time.
Why do you want to rush your training just to be ready in time for OSH? You can still get there, with a friend or an instructor, or you can fly into a nearby field like ATW or FLD. Tbh, I'm not sure why people are so keen on flying directly into OSH. I have over 1000 hours and I've never flown into that zoo. I have no particular interest in doing so, either. Too many average pilots interested in showing off their great skills by many accounts, not to mention idiots who can't follow instructions.
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Velocity173
Lol! Going into LAL in 2006 I was following a J-3 Cub. I was flying my AA-5 so the slower speed wasn't that big of a problem. Anyway, the Cub busts off the approach and starts heading for the runway instead of the parallel taxiway. I say forget him and start my approach to the parallel. I hear hear ATC go "Cub on final we're landing on the parallel, turn right to the parallel." The guy cuts right in front of me on short final. I blame missing the dot and bouncing three times on him.
JB1842
En-Route
"Oh look someone who is braver than me and is flying something nicer. Man I'm jealous! Oh, I know, I'll just say he has a small dick. Yeah. That makes me feel better now! He may have a nicer plane but his dick is as small as mine."
Braver? I doubt that. Jealous of an airplane? I won mine in a raffle, I have nothing to be jealous about. And I know how big my dick is. I don't need to post online to prove it. Tell you what, if for whatever reason you can't fly into Oshkosh, come to Hartford, WI and ride with me. Maybe after meeting you and sharing a beer, you won't be the tool you are portraying yourself to be on here.
Hocky
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Hocky
Well you're the one who starting talking about dick size.
I'll meet you for a beer but please you have to promise not to talk about dicks okay?
JB1842
En-Route
Well you're the one who starting talking about dick size.
I'll meet you for a beer but please you have to promise not to talk about dicks okay?
No promises.
Hocky
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Hocky
Re: Student Solo at Airventure
It's a goal. Last year at Oshkosh I set myself a goal to get my license and to fly in. I'm a little behind schedule (that work thing always gets in the way, doesn't it?) but I believe I can still make it. It's something important to me to be able to fly into OSH myself. Why climb Mt Everest? Rather just climb a smaller peak nearby it's the same right? No it's not.
It's a goal. Last year at Oshkosh I set myself a goal to get my license and to fly in. I'm a little behind schedule (that work thing always gets in the way, doesn't it?) but I believe I can still make it. It's something important to me to be able to fly into OSH myself. Why climb Mt Everest? Rather just climb a smaller peak nearby it's the same right? No it's not.
The plan is early on Sunday morning. Contrary to popular belief I do actually want to be cautious and come in when it is less busy.
I will announce myself "Hocky" as I turn downwind to base. Any POA'ers present then owe me a sixpack. I will not bother to bring beer with me because I will be well stocked by all of you.
If I die, well then I hope you were entertained and I hope I die well and with dignity.
I haven't read this year's NOTAM, so I didn't know that they had changed the procedure. When did flying downwind and announcing turn to base start?
azure
Final Approach
Re: Student Solo at Airventure
If you do go, I hope your skills are up to the challenge. You may be squeezed in on arrival between other people whose skills are not.
Oh, I totally understand setting goals. The thing is, it'll happen when it happens. I was ready for several months before I actually took my instrument checkride. Over 2 weeks between the oral and the flight part because of weather. It's not always under your control.
If you do go, I hope your skills are up to the challenge. You may be squeezed in on arrival between other people whose skills are not.
Hocky
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poadeleted20
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I see nothing further I can do to help you in this forum. Good luck with your flying.
Well excuse me! So what else did I miss that you know for certain that I missed or are you just shooting from the hip right there?
JasonM
Pattern Altitude
Some confusion going on there in the tower..
Hocky, I just got my PPL last summer and there were a lot of things that people would say I shouldn't do. The best thing I did was listen. It is hard to appreciate the advise from others when you feel otherwise about something, but more often than not, it is good advise.
My biggest fear is traffic while flying. I am good on the radio and working closer to my IR and have nearly 200 hours so far. I have been pushing myself and my abilities by flying to Class B and C airports and through more challenging situations with ATC. Dealing with a controller is no sweat until they start changing things up on you fast. Although that didn't seem like a crazy event, I can guarantee that pilots heart was beating fast, not knowing what was coming next and how to manage the task and risks surrounding that.
My advise would be to fly with someone into a congested place like that and learn from it without having to worry about everything else at the same time. You do have a lot to learn. I do as well. (some would say we all have a lot to learn). Good luck to you on getting your PPL. Its a great responsibility that only seems to get more serious the more you fly.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Mine is weather. Very, very few people die in midairs, none at the show thus far. Lots of people buy it from going into bad wx. You can't control it and it can sneak up on you.
I'd be afraid of running out of fuel (another thing that brines lots of pilots to grief) but I can control that and do.
The thing that kills folks at the show is basic airmanship, things like getting too slow in the turn from base to final. There I really would trust a newbie pilot, they've had these things drummed into them more recently than I and are likely to remember better.
Hocky
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Yep. I'm going to follow the NOTAM EXACTLY. I've already memorized the VFR FISK arrival. I'm also going to practice holding exactly 1800 feet and 90 knots and doing a tight pattern to final and then practising a go around. My biggest fear is not colliding with someone, it is doing something stupid on base to final. But there is no reason why this should be any different than any other landing in a busy area if I just treat it that way. I will listen up and do exactly what ATC tells me and be ready for a go around at any time.
I would bet a large sum of money I will be much better prepared than the majority of the people flying in.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
The vast majority read the NOTAM and follow instructions. Wouldn't work otherwise. But there are always a few jokers that are either clueless or too self important to bother. Them you have to watch out for.
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