Student Pilot down KLHV

flyingpreacher

flyingpreacher

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flyingpreacher
Flight and accident details are very sparse at the moment, but a 17-year-old girl was flying a student pilot solo from KIPT to KLHV this morning and crashed just north of the threshold of RWY 27 killing her. She was a Civil Air Patrol cadet with good leadership skills and a vivacious personality. She had grand aspirations in the aviation world according to a newspaper article about her that was published just 13 days ago.

I met her several times over the past couple of months, on the ramp, CAP meetings, in the FBO… SUPER sweet girl.

Horrifically sad for the local GA community and the squadron of CAP that is based at Lock Haven. Of note, the plane was a club plane for employees of Lycoming Engines.

Teen pilot dies in plane crash on Thursday morning near Lock Haven

ASHTON PETERS/FOR THE EXPRESS A 17-year-old female perished in a single plane crash on Thursday morning, according to state police at Lamar. “At approximately 10 a.m. PSP was notified of a plane crash into the woods on Allegheny St, in Woodward Twp. The pilot, a 17-year-old female, was...
www.sungazette.com www.sungazette.com
 
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How sad. My thoughts to her family.
 
Heartbreaking. The poor family.
 
Poor family, and I'd hate to be her instructor as well.
 
That’s a rough one.

I looked up those airports. Less that 25 miles apart. I remember my own solo flights in a similar radius and how much that meant to me. I’m sure she enjoyed many of those same feelings. I’m really sorry it ended this way.
 
Very sad to hear.

For the sake of awareness (it doesn’t seem like it’d be a factor), here was the weather and active AIRMETs at Williamsport (Lock Haven doesn’t have a METAR):

KIPT 041354Z 00000KT 10SM OVC031 25/19 A2995 RMK AO2 SLP137 T02500189
TAF:KIPT 041359Z 0414/0512 24004KT P6SM BKN040 BKN110
FM041700 25007KT P6SM VCSH OVC080
FM042000 22003KT P6SM OVC100
FM050700 00000KT 4SM BR OVC050

G-AIRMET: Mountain obscuration
Valid:2024-07-04T15:00:00Z
Issued:2024-07-04T11:22:00Z
Due to:MTNS OBSC BY PCPN/CLDS/BR

Nothing actively on radar at the accident time, just some showers in the general area a few hours prior.
 
Flying Keys said:
Very sad to hear.

For the sake of awareness (it doesn’t seem like it’d be a factor), here was the weather and active AIRMETs at Williamsport (Lock Haven doesn’t have a METAR):

KIPT 041354Z 00000KT 10SM OVC031 25/19 A2995 RMK AO2 SLP137 T02500189
TAF:KIPT 041359Z 0414/0512 24004KT P6SM BKN040 BKN110
FM041700 25007KT P6SM VCSH OVC080
FM042000 22003KT P6SM OVC100
FM050700 00000KT 4SM BR OVC050

G-AIRMET: Mountain obscuration
Valid:2024-07-04T15:00:00Z
Issued:2024-07-04T11:22:00Z
Due to:MTNS OBSC BY PCPN/CLDS/BR

Nothing actively on radar at the accident time, just some showers in the general area a few hours prior.
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No, weather wasn’t a factor. I made the comment that it was a beautiful day to fly, but I had other responsibilities.
 
Given the location of the crash, it looks as if the accident occurred in the pattern, abeam the 27 threshold, about 1/3 NM north. Not really the spot you'd be doing anything but starting a descent.
 
You would think that, but there is a ridge there and many, if not most of us go to the other side of the ridge for the downwind leg, so it seems an odd place for us locals. I’ve run through everything I can possibly think of for that particular spot based on the ADSB data and I can’t figure it out. One ADSB track shows she was just entering the pattern for the first time, while another shows that maybe she had already done a touch and go.

If that were the case, MAYBE a crosswind turn stall-spin scenario, but that usually happens base to final not on the crosswind turn. Like I said, it doesn’t seem to make sense.

It’s a CTAF and not monitored by ATCLive, so no word on whether or not she made a mayday call.
 
Sad condolences to the family and friends RIP
 
flyingpreacher said:
If that were the case, MAYBE a crosswind turn stall-spin scenario, but that usually happens base to final not on the crosswind turn. Like I said, it doesn’t seem to make sense.
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I believe @wanttaja has posted info about this before. Here's a link from Pilotinstitute:

Stall/spin incidents lead to the most fatal accidents, but it is worth noting that the takeoff and climb phase sees more stall accidents than descent and approach.
Click to expand...
pilotinstitute.com

Aviation Accident Statistics Revealed

This article will dive into the latest general aviation accident statistics to uncover the most common causes of these incidents.
pilotinstitute.com pilotinstitute.com
 
Daleandee said:
I believe @wanttaja has posted info about this before. Here's a link from Pilotinstitute:


pilotinstitute.com

Aviation Accident Statistics Revealed

This article will dive into the latest general aviation accident statistics to uncover the most common causes of these incidents.
pilotinstitute.com pilotinstitute.com
Click to expand...
That’s sad to hear, but good to know. I just did my spin training for CFI and the first one was the absolute worst feeling I’ve ever had in a plane. Once I knew what was coming, it wasn’t so bad, but I sure wouldn’t want to have one in the takeoff/climb phase.
 
Removed due to issues with the article.
 
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Reminds me of the July 2019 accident with N994CP in Oxford, MS.
 
Seems odd to me that the student’s second solo flight was to an airport 23 miles from her home airport. Looking back at my PPL flight training, I had 3 supervised solos and was then endorsed to operate solo only in the traffic pattern at my home airport. With additional dual and solo flight, I earned a local practice area endorsement followed by a solo endorsement for a cross country flight similar to this accident flight (mine was 35 nm distant).
 
Not odd depending on how busy or windy the home airport was.
 
Hengelo said:
Not odd depending on how busy or windy the home airport was.
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Still odd, as stated, second solo the student does not have a sign off to go to any other airport. Even more so as the track shows it flew one way the day before and this was a return flight.

Also odd, the ASN report says departure and arrival at KIPT, but the crash was at KLHV.

Flight Aware shows a flight on Wednesday July 3 from KLHV to KIPT, then the next day the flight from KIPT to KLHV that ended in the crash. No pattern work at KLHV on the track, but that could be loss of ADSB signal on final for the first pattern and not getting high enough to show up after a touch and go.

One thing that would help is if more airports installed an ADSB receiver connected to the internet for better coverage.
 
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Ah, I missed the unexplained transit between airports.
 
Pinecone said:
Still odd, as stated, second solo the student does not have a sign off to go to any other airport. Even more so as the track shows it flew one way the day before and this was a return flight.

Also odd, the ASN report says departure and arrival at KIPT, but the crash was at KLHV.

Flight Aware shows a flight on Wednesday July 3 from KLHV to KIPT, then the next day the flight from KIPT to KLHV that ended in the crash. No pattern work at KLHV on the track, but that could be loss of ADSB signal on final for the first pattern and not getting high enough to show up after a touch and go.

One thing that would help is if more airports installed an ADSB receiver connected to the internet for better coverage.
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There is nothing odd, the student had an endorsement to solo to LHV and the airplane was based at IPT.
 
"About half-way down the 3,799-ft-long runway, the airplane began a left, climbing turn. During the climbing turn, ground speed slowly increased
46 knots. The last recorded radar target showed the airplane on a north-northwesterly ground track at a groundspeed of 46 knots."

Sounds like a botched go-around. Reminds me of the recent student pilot crash at Quebec City:

Air transportation safety investigation report A23Q0088 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

www.tsb.gc.ca www.tsb.gc.ca

Are instructors not teaching go-arounds to proficiency?

edit: Could also be a botched touch-and-go, possibly with forgotten or stuck flaps, though the NTSB doesn't say anything about the flap position.
 
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dmspilot said:
"About half-way down the 3,799-ft-long runway, the airplane began a left, climbing turn. During the climbing turn, ground speed slowly increased
46 knots. The last recorded radar target showed the airplane on a north-northwesterly ground track at a groundspeed of 46 knots."

Sounds like a botched go-around. Reminds me of the recent student pilot crash at Quebec City:

Air transportation safety investigation report A23Q0088 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

www.tsb.gc.ca www.tsb.gc.ca

Are instructors not teaching go-arounds to proficiency?

edit: Could also be a botched touch-and-go with forgotten or stuck flaps, though the NTSB doesn't say anything about the flap position.
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Flaps + carb heat on a go around? Sometimes the landing just doesn’t look right, and things get missed on the go around.

Maybe a touch and go? I know CFIs are all different, mine was really strict with not allowing touch and goes. “Make a landing a landing and a takeoff a takeoff. As a student you already have enough going on.”
 
dmspilot said:
"About half-way down the 3,799-ft-long runway, the airplane began a left, climbing turn. During the climbing turn, ground speed slowly increased
46 knots. The last recorded radar target showed the airplane on a north-northwesterly ground track at a groundspeed of 46 knots."

Sounds like a botched go-around. Reminds me of the recent student pilot crash at Quebec City:

Air transportation safety investigation report A23Q0088 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

www.tsb.gc.ca www.tsb.gc.ca

Are instructors not teaching go-arounds to proficiency?

edit: Could also be a botched touch-and-go, possibly with forgotten or stuck flaps, though the NTSB doesn't say anything about the flap position.
Click to expand...

They teach it usually right, but I'll personally attest to there could be things you just weren't fully ready for when you are cleared to solo initially.

For me the incident was specifically go around but it was dual. We were doing simulated engine failure in the pattern and I screwed it up. So go around right? Yes put in power but we were trimmed so nose up it pitched up quickly. I knew you had to push it down but my muscle memory wasn't working yet and while physically capable of pushing against the trim I just wasn't pushing hard enough fast enough. The stall warning light came on and my instructor shoved the yoke forward. Was the closest to accident for me and something I'll never forget just about 20 foot above the grass beside the runway doing that.
 
AquaLand said:
Seems odd to me that the student’s second solo flight was to an airport 23 miles from her home airport. Looking back at my PPL flight training, I had 3 supervised solos and was then endorsed to operate solo only in the traffic pattern at my home airport. With additional dual and solo flight, I earned a local practice area endorsement followed by a solo endorsement for a cross country flight similar to this accident flight (mine was 35 nm distant).
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After my first solo, my instructor "set me free" almost entirely. I was free to fly wherever and whatever I wanted within the area of the airport/local practice area (no prior contact necessary), and she was very happy to give me endorsements to go elsewhere whenever I wanted, as long as I stayed within my weather limitation. My second solo was two hours of touch-n-goes on the grass runway after work one day absolutely on my own. Apparently, she had a tag on the plane on Flightaware because when I landed for the last time, she texted me and said my patterns were looking awesome. Not everyone has their hand held to the same degree after solo, and I don't think it's strictly necessary, either.
 
I learned today that she did not touch base with her instructor and that he didn’t know she was even flying that day until the accident happened.

To be fair, KLHV is one of two airports to which most instructors send their students out of KIPT for their first “adventure” away from the home drone, so it isn’t surprising. My first solo away from KIPT was to KSEG and then my second was KLHV.
 
The the states CFI don't have to authorize solo flights? Everyone of my solos were briefed and authorized or they don't count. I mean remember this incident https://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2018/a18o0096/a18o0096.pdf ? I am oddly connected to that crash. Pilot's a anesthesiologist (Dr. Butt, not a joke or anything) who did the epidural for my neighbor. I met the instructor who authorized the fatal flight. Later on I found out more about that instructor and I have to say I am sorta glad I went with the flight school.
 
flyingpreacher said:
I learned today that she did not touch base with her instructor and that he didn’t know she was even flying that day until the accident happened.
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I find that very hard to believe. We're talking about a CAP cadet, they are more disciplined than that. Especially straight after her first solo.

This has a not so faint odor of CYA to me. Her logbook has probably been destroyed in the fire, so any evidence of solo endorsements is most likely gone.

I wonder if she already had a checkride scheduled and things were being rushed to meet it (similar to the previous CAP mishap). Judging by the downwind to base to final turn, her traffic pattern skills could've used a bit more honing.

It does look like a go-around gone wrong (flaps down, carb heat on?). I wonder if her instructor only taught full stop landings.

In any case, I don't think she's the main cause of this accident. Someone else let her down training-wise and I suspect they might be trying to cover it up now.
 
AV8R_87 said:
I find that very hard to believe. We're talking about a CAP cadet, they are more disciplined than that. Especially straight after her first solo.

This has a not so faint odor of CYA to me. Her logbook has probably been destroyed in the fire, so any evidence of solo endorsements is most likely gone.

I wonder if she already had a checkride scheduled and things were being rushed to meet it (similar to the previous CAP mishap). Judging by the downwind to base to final turn, her traffic pattern skills could've used a bit more honing.

It does look like a go-around gone wrong (flaps down, carb heat on?). I wonder if her instructor only taught full stop landings.

In any case, I don't think she's the main cause of this accident. Someone else let her down training-wise and I suspect they might be trying to cover it up now.
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The quality of instruction has not been great but has fallen off a cliff within the past few years with the pilot shortage. No idea if her CFI was a timebuilder or not but it doesn't matter as bad CFIs come from all walks of life and I've seen too many students soloed while lacking basic airmanship skills. Luck is the only reason there aren't more accidents like the one in LHV and YQB.
 
Matthew said:
Maybe a touch and go? I know CFIs are all different, mine was really strict with not allowing touch and goes. “Make a landing a landing and a takeoff a takeoff. As a student you already have enough going on.”
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I personally do a lot of touch and go landings with my students. That is the law of primacy at work - I learned to fly in the US Air Force, and we routinely did touch and goes in all of the different airplanes I flew.

Here, our chief instructor recommends full stop/taxi back for the first few times before starting touch and goes.
 
SkyChaser said:
After my first solo, my instructor "set me free" almost entirely. I was free to fly wherever and whatever I wanted within the area of the airport/local practice area (no prior contact necessary), and she was very happy to give me endorsements to go elsewhere whenever I wanted, as long as I stayed within my weather limitation. My second solo was two hours of touch-n-goes on the grass runway after work one day absolutely on my own. Apparently, she had a tag on the plane on Flightaware because when I landed for the last time, she texted me and said my patterns were looking awesome. Not everyone has their hand held to the same degree after solo, and I don't think it's strictly necessary, either.
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I wasn't set free, but the only other airport I was endorsed to go to was 2800x 35'. Home drome is 40'.

Didn't have my hand held, but I was to brief my cfi about weather conditions prior to the flight
 
I found the paragraph below interesting:

For the next step in achieving her goal, Bitler starts at the LIFT (Leadership in Flight Training) Academy in South Carolina in September.

I wonder if that's why it feels like things were being rushed. Did LIFT require a PPL for entry? That leaves only two months from solo to a successful checkride.
 
AV8R_87 said:
I find that very hard to believe. We're talking about a CAP cadet, they are more disciplined than that. Especially straight after her first solo.

This has a not so faint odor of CYA to me.
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dmspilot said:
The quality of instruction has not been great but has fallen off a cliff within the past few years with the pilot shortage. No idea if her CFI was a timebuilder or not ...
Click to expand...

Instructor is a former B-52 and then B-1 pilot. Thousands of flight hours in all types. Pilot for 50+ years. Has trained USAF Thunderbird pilots.

@AV8R_87 mentioned CAP cadets being more disciplined. I'm not casting aspersions on the student, but I have my opinion on which was likely the more disciplined.

(Not going out of my way to defend him, just giving you a sense of student vs instructor character)
 
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Gilbert Buettner said:
I personally do a lot of touch and go landings with my students. That is the law of primacy at work - I learned to fly in the US Air Force, and we routinely did touch and goes in all of the different airplanes I flew.

Here, our chief instructor recommends full stop/taxi back for the first few times before starting touch and goes.
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Can you imagine the long lines if we did all full stops in UPT??????? :D :D

People who have done been there, done that, don't understand that there is an initial take off every 3 minutes from dawn to dusk. No touch and goes would mean each flight would get one take off and landing, maybe 2.

Hmm, what would they think of a touch and go to a closed pattern (not what civilians call a closed pattern. :D
 
This thread is the only context where I have seen a CAP pilot discussed as being more disciplined than their non-CAP peers. Interesting.
 
CAP CADET, not a Senior Member pilot. :)
 
Racerx said:
I wasn't set free, but the only other airport I was endorsed to go to was 2800x 35'. Home drome is 40'.

Didn't have my hand held, but I was to brief my cfi about weather conditions prior to the flight
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Same situation for me. After my 2nd or 3rd solo I was allowed to fly solo anytime as long as I briefed weather with instructor. I had 2 airports I was allowed to go to - a nearby Class D for tower practice, and a small uncontrolled field about 3200x75. Both were about 20nm away.

Home field was 3300x50.
 
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