Should I still tip?

Morgan3820

Morgan3820

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El Conquistador
So given the new in economics of labor, and just having paid $76 plus a tip for breakfast for three, do I still tip? Are we going to a European model where we pay a market wage to the staff and no tip or are we paying a market wage and still tipping 20%?
 
Morgan3820 said:
So given the new in economics of labor, and just having paid $76 plus a tip for breakfast for three, do I still tip? Are we going to a European model where we pay a market wage to the staff and no tip or are we paying a market wage and still tipping 20%?
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If meals have gotten too expensive to eat out, the appropriate thing is to do is to eat at home, not to skip the tip. Unless the establishment has gone away from the wait staff business model, the expectation is that you leave a 20% tip, lest the server not get paid for a service they provided.

Don't hate the player (server), hate the game.
 
Yeah, the cost of the food itself, doesn’t negate the need to tip the server. As far as I know, the hourly wage for a server hasn’t changed much if any. Like Brad said, if you can’t afford to tip them, stay home.
 
Brad Z said:
Unless the establishment has gone away from the wait staff business model, the expectation is that you leave a 20% tip, lest the server not get paid for a service they provided.
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Now we're rehashing what service a server is providing. To me, taking an order, bringing food, and collecting the money is the bare minimum service because without it, we wouldn't be doing business and I've had "servers" who only did one of those things. I don't tip the suppliers that deliver to me, the only reason we're expected to tip restaurant servers is because their bosses are too cheap to pay them a fair wage.

Thus, my solution is not to go to restaurants except when I have to.
 
bflynn said:
Now we're rehashing what service a server is providing. To me, taking an order, bringing food, and collecting the money is the bare minimum service because without it, we wouldn't be doing business and I've had "servers" who only did one of those things. I don't tip the suppliers that deliver to me, the only reason we're expected to tip restaurant servers is because their bosses are too cheap to pay them a fair wage.

Thus, my solution is not to go to restaurants except when I have to.
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Which is fine. But there are plenty of folks who hate the restaurant business model and retaliate by still going to restaurants and ordering food but stiffing the servers. If you're not going to tip, don't do to a sit-down restaurant.
 
I'm presented with about 3x more "tip lines" than say 5 years ago. I tip for full service restaurants (those that will bring and refill my beverages -- appx 5% per refill, as I normally drink 3 iced teas at a meal -- +10% if I get one to-go)

I don't tip fast casual, fast food, curbside, or takeout, despite some of their POS terminals helpfully pre-filling 18% for me. I will gladly find the 0 button, even if it's buried in the UI.

I still tip coffee at boutique-y places but not starbucks. I haven't sorted this one out in my head yet, but I think there is a "hotness quotient" at play. Particularly at my regular "cool" coffee place.
 
Brad Z said:
the expectation is that you leave a 20% tip
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I thought 15% was the standard on pre sales tax total. I've never heard of 20% as the expectation.

I agree, if the tip is too much, eat at home. It's healthier too.
 
schmookeeg said:
I'm presented with about 3x more "tip lines" than say 5 years ago. I tip for full service restaurants (those that will bring and refill my beverages -- appx 5% per refill, as I normally drink 3 iced teas at a meal -- +10% if I get one to-go)

I don't tip fast casual, fast food, curbside, or takeout, despite some of their POS terminals helpfully pre-filling 18% for me. I will gladly find the 0 button, even if it's buried in the UI.

I still tip coffee at boutique-y places but not starbucks. I haven't sorted this one out in my head yet, but I think there is a "hotness quotient" at play. Particularly at my regular "cool" coffee place.
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Lately I've noticed a few restaurants are very candid - there's an automatic 3-5% on the check for the "back of the house" crew - bussers, cooks, etc. in addition to the tip.

Our university went to a "food court" model years ago. At this point, the only vendor I use (maybe 2 days a week because I'm there from 10 am to 7 pm) is Subway. I'll always over tip (cash jar) because I know most of the students at the school can't afford to tip anything. (50% of our students are on some sort of financial aid)
 
Walboy said:
I thought 15% was the standard on pre sales tax total. I've never heard of 20% as the expectation.

I agree, if the tip is too much, eat at home. It's healthier too.
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Careful though, to some on here, tipping 15% is the same as not tipping, because eXPecTaTiOns.
The Gospel according to Them, I call it. I tip 15% btw, though I don't agree with the US tipping system. I would prefer the Euro pricing system. I also tend to patronize restaurants on a takeout basis, as I find the sit down experience anywhere I go (and certainly where I live) too crowded for my liking anymore. The food is mundane as it is already.

The "if you can't afford it" smear is so tired though. The irony of course being, it is because I have enough money in the bank, the reason I can "afford" make decisions about value that aren't beholden to affordability in the first place lol. I wouldn't expect the hand-to-mouth or financed-millionaire crowds to understand that paradox, if we're casting passive aggressive socioeconomic aspersions.
 
As I think most people do, I tip because it's expected and I don't want to stiff the wait staff. It is a demanding job even if it isn't exactly skilled labor.

I completely detest the practice though. I don't think it makes sense and I wish we'd do it another way. Put a server fee on my bill, pay your wait staff a decent wage and charge more for the meal. Something other than this weird arbitrary percentage that's semi-voluntarily added to the bill. Why a percentage? Does the person delivering a burger and fries work harder/provide more value than the person delivering lobster?

More importantly, why am I in the position of determining how much someone gets paid when I didn't hire them? I don't want to deal with socioeconomic issues, I just wanted some lunch.
 
SkyChaser said:
How and when did 20% become the standard tip? That used to be the expected rate for larger groups, usually at 8+ people, when I was growing up, not the expected tip any time you went out.
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It didn't, but that's the macro point: it's all arbitrary and capricious. The gospel according to someone else who declared by fiat to self-assign license to speak on behalf of the cultural majority. It's all BS. More importantly, not codified into law. So ultimately a case of "...put it on my tab", pun very much intended. :D
 
Brad Z said:
If you're not going to tip, don't do to a sit-down restaurant.
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I didn't say I won't tip. But I resent tipping to make up for cheap bosses. I also resent tipping when the only time I've seen a server is when they took my order and then I have to flag down someone else to get refills on drinks, check on food, and deliver the bill.
 
There have been only a handful of times that I haven't tipped (in situations where tipping is appropriate). In almost all cases, when service is that bad, I end up speaking to the manager. One time, we just walked out. The server brought us menus and took a drink order and then we never saw another employee (this was very weird).

Several times I've tipped even when I wasn't charged for the dinner. One time, we had come in and gotten our wine delivered and ordered, but then the manager came up and said "I'm sorry, but you're going to have to leave. The building is on fire." I had noticed the fire engines arriving. I could see that they had blocked my car in so we just took our wine out and sat in the parking lot with it until they dealt with the issue. We were invited back inside, but the ovens had shut down so it would be a protracted delay on anything that couldn't be cooked on the stovetop. They offered us another bottle of wine during the delay. The bill was comped for us, but we left an very large tip for the waitress as she wasn't likely making much that night (most of the rest of the restaurant did not return that evening).
 
flyingron said:
There have been only a handful of times that I haven't tipped (in situations where tipping is appropriate). In almost all cases, when service is that bad, I end up speaking to the manager. One time, we just walked out. The server brought us menus and took a drink order and then we never saw another employee (this was very weird).
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Happened to us one evening too. It certainly was strange. The waitress brought us iced tea, then just... disappeared.

We do tip most of the time. I do feel like it's getting to be more and more of an "entitlement" attitude though. I'll go to pick up a carry-out order - and the restaurant tries to automatically add a 20% tip to the bill. Seriously? And there's my favorite. The woman who cuts my hair. Self employed, and charging a premium price (which I'm happy to pay, since she does a really good job) - but then tries to add a 20% tip to the bill. For what, exactly? Does her boss not pay her enough? Then she should have a talk with herself. If you're going to charge more, then just charge more.
 
Morgan3820 said:
So given the new in economics of labor, and just having paid $76 plus a tip for breakfast for three, do I still tip? Are we going to a European model where we pay a market wage to the staff and no tip or are we paying a market wage and still tipping 20%?
Click to expand...
Hmm. Good question. I suppose checking out the Minimum Wage in your State or locality might help you make the decision on how much to tip. If it’s enough to actually live on I can see cutting back a little. Like most people who have ever had a tipping job, I’m a pretty good tipper. And I tend do it a little bigger than a coupla years ago. I’m just glad they are there instead of not working at all.
 
My tip-o-meter starts at 15%. Staff performance is the deciding factor after the beginning. Some days I find tips annoying. Some I don’t. In general I think I get better service because of tips. If we went to a no tip environment there would be no upside to doing a good job or a bad job. I think most of the wait staff would work hard enough to not get fired and only that hard. An upside would be they would not care how long it took me to eat so they would probably stop rushing everyone to clear the table and make more tips.

no free lunch. Good and bad to both.
 
I find it pretty amusing that a bunch of people that fly and/or rent airplanes, which is a pretty expensive endeavor, are bellyaching about tipping an extra 5%.

I always tip 20% plus a few extra $$$. The people bringing your food have bills to pay and mouths to feed just like the rest of us, and a few extra bucks won’t bankrupt me any time soon. I’ve been incredibly fortunate in my life, I have no issue spending a few extra bucks on a tip.
 
DaleB said:
Self employed, and charging a premium price (which I'm happy to pay, since she does a really good job) - but then tries to add a 20% tip to the bill. For what, exactly? Does her boss not pay her enough? Then she should have a talk with herself. If you're going to charge more, then just charge more.
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The "rules" say you don't tip the proprietor of the business. For just this reason. You assume he's paying himself.

One thing that also galls me, and is in fact illegal in the US, is the management taking a cut of the tips or even forcing a tipout to the non-service staff.
 
flyingron said:
The "rules" say you don't tip the proprietor of the business. For just this reason. You assume he's paying himself.

One thing that also galls me, and is in fact illegal in the US, is the management taking a cut of the tips or even forcing a tipout to the non-service staff.
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Speaking of tip sharing. I used to be craps dealer in a Casino in Reno. All tips from all the games were pooled and divided equally. Some of the girl dealers didn’t particularly like that system.
 
I’ve got to admit I’ve starting tipping a lot better than I used to. I might be up to where most of you were before the pandemic. Lol

I still despise the entire concept.
 
I think its a generational thing. I had the misfortune of staying with my dad in a hotel that had a breakfast buffet with waitress service. He was paying and wasn’t going to leave a tip even after I explained it to him. I ended up leaving cash on the table, much to his chagrin.
 
When the American Legion reopened their dining room for the first time after closing for Covid, my ife and I had breakfast, check was $23. I gave our waitress $5,, the buss man $5., and sent $5 to the cook. Long time no see, and I am sure they did not get rich while away. The cook came from the kitchen with a big smile, and thanked us.

That was about a 60% tip. Since then, the tip has been about 20%, plus a separate buck or two to the old guy bussing tables.

Is it any surprise that when we sit down, he comes to the table and asks if we want the usual drinks? And at breakfast, that is coffee for my wife, and large orange juice for me, Dinner time, water with lemon for her, and a Pepsi for me.

On the other hand, 2 couples went to a fairly nice French Restaurant, crowded, but one table back in a corner, sort of out of sight, and we would find, out of mind. The meal was average, but service glacial. Much more than an hour between being seated, and getting the desert menu. We skipped desert, as we did not wish to be there another half hour, and paid the check. Our tip was 4 cents, one at each place. Our waiter was amazing fast at returning to our table to claim his tip, then furious, and caught up with us before we reached the front door, and returned it to us.

Service that fast would have merited a good tip.

The tip system allows us to strongly express our opinion of the quality of SERVICE we have had, as opposed to the quality of food the kitchen created. I only tip for table service, and occasionally for counter ordered but delivered to the table, which only merits 5% if napkins and condiments are also brought.

My wife and I just had a 2 block taxi ride, meter said $2.65, He carried our single bag 20 feet to the station platform, and we gave him $5.00. Percentage wise, huge, dollar wise, small, but he was more than happy with it.
 
Unless the place tells you that the waitstaff are hourly employees and that tipping is not expected, all you do by not tipping is screw the person who waited on you out of an hours wages.
 
ahh tipping. Ugh.
What's really bugging me lately is the places where you pay up front but still get service. I want to support good service, but I find more often than not pre-tipping seems to mean nothing to encourage good service. (not a surprise really....). In these situations I often try to just leave a small baseline tip up frontso they don't treat me like some sort of a tightwad.... and then tip a little more after...but sometimes that's not very convenient either.
and I sometimes wonder if to the server that looks like a small tip up front that by the end of the meal has been more or less forgotten about so when I leave a few more percent at the end to bolster it, then that just looks like a short tip.

I find the 15% or 20% debate almost funny....seems to be driven by folks that earn tips.
As far as I recall, it used to at least, be some sort of irs baseline of 10% used in calculations...so approx 15% was 'considered standard, more if good service or less if poor service. less than 10% was basically a negative tip...
Now I just don't know where any of it stands...
 
luvflyin said:
Speaking of tip sharing. I used to be craps dealer in a Casino in Reno. All tips from all the games were pooled and divided equally. Some of the girl dealers didn’t particularly like that system.
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That's legal. I know how you feel having been a player there. I was used to a casino where the tip went to the dealer, but it's far more common to have the pooled tips like yours. It surprised me the first time I tipped a place that did that.
 
Brad W said:
Now I just don't know where any of it stands...
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That's the whole problem with the concept of tipping. Someone earlier said "He was more than happy with it". Was he? How do you know? What I would consider a good tip if I were getting it, a lot of you would probably think was an insult.
 
Brad W said:
ahh tipping. Ugh.
What's really bugging me lately is the places where you pay up front but still get service. I want to support good service, but I find more often than not pre-tipping seems to mean nothing to encourage good service. (not a surprise really....). In these situations I often try to just leave a small baseline tip up frontso they don't treat me like some sort of a tightwad.... and then tip a little more after...but sometimes that's not very convenient either.
and I sometimes wonder if to the server that looks like a small tip up front that by the end of the meal has been more or less forgotten about so when I leave a few more percent at the end to bolster it, then that just looks like a short tip.

I find the 15% or 20% debate almost funny....seems to be driven by folks that earn tips.
As far as I recall, it used to at least, be some sort of irs baseline of 10% used in calculations...so approx 15% was 'considered standard, more if good service or less if poor service. less than 10% was basically a negative tip...
Now I just don't know where any of it stands...
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18% is becoming a thing. You see it on a lot of those push the button to pick a tip things and on the suggested tip things at the bottom of the paper slips.
 
Another problem I have with tipping is, I generally don't carry cash. If I do have cash it's usually 20's. I'm not going to carry a wad of 5's every where I go just in case I need to tip somebody.
 
Salty said:
Another problem I have with tipping is, I generally don't carry cash. If I do have cash it's usually 20's. I'm not going to carry a wad of 5's every where I go just in case I need to tip somebody.
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If you buy something, you’ll get change. If you use some service that is normally something you’d tip for, like a van ride or going to an FBO, bring some $5’s. It’s not hard, I’ll go to the bank every now and then and get $50 in $5’s. Depending how much I am flying, that lasts me at least a month. Once I start doing the airline thing, I’ll be tipping a lot more van drivers, so maybe I will have to go more often.
 
Groundpounder said:
If you buy something, you’ll get change. If you use some service that is normally something you’d tip for, like a van ride or going to an FBO, bring some $5’s. It’s not hard, I’ll go to the bank every now and then and get $50 in $5’s. Depending how much I am flying, that lasts me at least a month. Once I start doing the airline thing, I’ll be tipping a lot more van drivers, so maybe I will have to go more often.
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I bet one of the 20's in my wallet has been there for at least two years.
 
luvflyin said:
Hmm. Good question. I suppose checking out the Minimum Wage in your State or locality might help you make the decision on how much to tip. If it’s enough to actually live on I can see cutting back a little. Like most people who have ever had a tipping job, I’m a pretty good tipper. And I tend do it a little bigger than a coupla years ago. I’m just glad they are there instead of not working at all.
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Do wait staff fall under the minimum wage laws, or can they be paid less?
 
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