Sexism still exists against female pilots

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Velocity173 said:
Yeah no doubt the initial women combat pilots had it rough. These days there's been so many of them go through the program that the sexist attitudes are almost nonexistent. If anything they get treated better than male pilots. A lot of times, male pilots in the unit get over protective of their female counterparts. I'd say for the most part it's just a minor distraction and rarely affects unit cohesion. I never looked on the women as just one of the guys but I always treated them professionally and graded them fairly.
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One thing was kind of funny. I went to Ft. Bragg, our next duty assignment, while she was in the 58D course. When I got there some of my friends in the Cav made a bunch of noise to me about how this female was coming in and how she was going to ruin the Cav. I just kind of smiled and nodded my head in agreement. She showed up and the same guys commented "Hey, we know a -60 pilot with the same last name as you." She replied, "What a coincidence. My husband is a -60 driver and he has the same last name as me." A few of them came scrambling back to me to apologize and I told them not to worry about it. Change is hard and my wife understood that as much as the next person. She knew there was a time to hang with the pilots, but a time to let the boys be boys.

On an embarrassing side I was the first known male inducted into the Order of the Yellow Garter. I never lived that down in my unit.
 
Blackhawk said:
One thing was kind of funny. I went to Ft. Bragg, our next duty assignment, while she was in the 58D course. When I got there some of my friends in the Cav made a bunch of noise to me about how this female was coming in and how she was going to ruin the Cav. I just kind of smiled and nodded my head in agreement. She showed up and the same guys commented "Hey, we know a -60 pilot with the same last name as you." She replied, "What a coincidence. My husband is a -60 driver and he has the same last name as me." A few of them came scrambling back to me to apologize and I told them not to worry about it. Change is hard and my wife understood that as much as the next person. She knew there was a time to hang with the pilots, but a time to let the boys be boys.

On an embarrassing side I was the first known male inducted into the Order of the Yellow Garter. I never lived that down in my unit.
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:D:D:D
 
Kristin said:
While sexism in aviation still exists, as some of the responders herein prove, I want to know how a passenger gets access to the cockpit to leave such notes.
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Note was probably left by a senior pilot.
 
To this day when I get on a commercial flight and there is a female captain who talks over the PA system I feel a little concerned. I know it is not right but I am just being honest. I would never say anything though. If you do an anonymous poll you would be surprised by the results many men think like I do. Heck many men think women shouldn't be driving let along flying! Think about it. I'm not excusing this behavior though writing that mean note was totally out of line.
 
jenkins said:
To this day when I get on a commercial flight and there is a female captain who talks over the PA system I feel a little concerned. I know it is not right but I am just being honest. I would never say anything though. If you do an anonymous poll you would be surprised by the results many men think like I do. Heck many men think women shouldn't be driving let along flying! Think about it. I'm not excusing this behavior though writing that mean note was totally out of line.
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This is why my wife never raised a stink if someone said something to her, be it about being a female motocross racer, rigger, female pilot, Cav pilot, doctor, or orthopedic surgeon. You might get a person to shut up but you will never change their attitude. The only way to do that is through quiet professionalism.
 
Ghery said:
I think they take a special class for that. :D
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It's all the classes and note writing...I used to print very rapidly and very neatly - product of a time spent as a draftsman - but now people attempt to give me **** about my handwriting. I quietly explain to them that my penmanship went away somewhere between the MS and PhD and that they'll just have to get used to it.
 
jenkins said:
If you do an anonymous poll you would be surprised by the results many men think like I do.
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I found out a fair amount of women do too, and they are not as shy about expressing shock and surprise. :rofl:

I figure it's because it's something they can't picture themselves doing. :dunno:
 
jenkins said:
To this day when I get on a commercial flight and there is a female captain who talks over the PA system I feel a little concerned. I know it is not right but I am just being honest. I would never say anything though. If you do an anonymous poll you would be surprised by the results many men think like I do. Heck many men think women shouldn't be driving let along flying! Think about it. I'm not excusing this behavior though writing that mean note was totally out of line.
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Funny, I get just the opposite reaction. I just know she's had to climb higher work harder, and perform better to get where she is.

Talking about women pilots, it's difficult to imagine what the black (colored) pilots of WWII had to endure in order to do their job. Then to return home to discover they still couldn't fly for a living.
 
My first instinct is that the note is a hoax. Much like the many Facebook posts we've seen about notes left on receipts for waiters instead of a tip. I have no evidence for this other than it appeared on the Internet, and therefore must be assumed to be a lie until proven otherwise.

I'm not saying there isn't still sexism in many workplaces, just that I'm not buying this particular story.
 
Lindberg said:
My first instinct is that the note is a hoax. Much like the many Facebook posts we've seen about notes left on receipts for waiters instead of a tip. I have no evidence for this other than it appeared on the Internet, and therefore must be assumed to be a lie until proven otherwise.

I'm not saying there isn't still sexism in many workplaces, just that I'm not buying this particular story.
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Likely. Sure women make fine pilots, but do drama queens make good pilots?
 
There has been a lot of cases on college campuses where these kind of things are found to be hoaxes by a member of a victim group who hasn't actually experienced any sort victimization.

I call shenanigans.
 
First. the note was from a pax. Who f'ing cares what some random pax writes on a napkin. I'd discipline the FA who escalated a doodle to a 'company issue' to web phenomenon.

Second...why is this girl pilot posting pax doodles on her FaceBook page only to then remove it? Sounds like a story there. I say 'girl pilot' because i'm a boy pilot and I'd never handle a random note from a pax by posting it to my personal FaceBook page....if I had a FB page...still...ya get the point.

Why do you girls feel such a need to share every random thing that ever happens to you? Did she report the 49 other pax that didn't complain? No...just the one negative comment...cant get over that. Go figure.
 
Captain said:
First. the note was from a pax. Who f'ing cares what some random pax writes on a napkin. I'd discipline the FA who escalated a doodle to a 'company issue' to web phenomenon.

Second...why is this girl pilot posting pax doodles on her FaceBook page only to then remove it? Sounds like a story there. I say 'girl pilot' because i'm a boy pilot and I'd never handle a random note from a pax by posting it to my personal FaceBook page....if I had a FB page...still...ya get the point.

Why do you girls feel such a need to share every random thing that ever happens to you? Did she report the 49 other pax that didn't complain? No...just the one negative comment...cant get over that. Go figure.
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Agreed. My first impression was that it was unprofessional of the pilot to make an issue of it. That said, the passenger was out of line. Passengers often are.
 
I didn't read the entire thread, so I'm not sure if someone hit a similar point but I think the captain is a part of this issue (if the story in, in fact, true).

If sexism didn't exist anymore, which it still does, and if she wanted to make a step towards a sexist-free society, she would have just thrown the napkin out instead of posting it on social media where it would undoubtedly get passed around.

She could have been the better person and ended the situation right then and there, but she didn't.

These topics are ALWAYS pointless.

jenkins said:
To this day when I get on a commercial flight and there is a female captain who talks over the PA system I feel a little concerned. I know it is not right but I am just being honest. I would never say anything though. If you do an anonymous poll you would be surprised by the results many men think like I do. Heck many men think women shouldn't be driving let along flying! Think about it. I'm not excusing this behavior though writing that mean note was totally out of line.
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I feel the same way. I don't doubt her ability to handle the aircraft in any way, shape, or form because she worked her way into that seat. I just get.. uncomfortable.
 
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jenkins said:
To this day when I get on a commercial flight and there is a female captain who talks over the PA system I feel a little concerned. I know it is not right but I am just being honest. I would never say anything though. If you do an anonymous poll you would be surprised by the results many men think like I do. Heck many men think women shouldn't be driving let along flying! Think about it. I'm not excusing this behavior though writing that mean note was totally out of line.
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I don't think I've ever seen a female pilot on any of my commercial flights, but it wouldn't concern me. It would probably strike me as unusual though. If she is there because of training and paying her dues, I don't care. Maybe I'm ignorant, but it doesn't strike me as a job where being physically stronger makes a lot of difference. I believe in hiring the best person for a job, regardless of race or gender.

I do have problems with women getting jobs where physical standards are lowered to allow them to qualify. I don't know if this has happened, but I remember talks of fire departments setting a lower standard for women, and I think this isn't right. Same with military and police departments. You can either meet the demands for this job or you can't. If you're strong enough to throw me on your shoulder and carry me out of a burning house, I don't care what kind of plumbing you have between your legs.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Agreed. My first impression was that it was unprofessional of the pilot to make an issue of it. That said, the passenger was out of line. Passengers often are.
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Also agree. But we don't know the whole story here. Perhaps the pilot posted it on Facebook as a "haha, look at this idiot" picture to her friends, not a "woe is me I got my feelings hurt" picture. It wouldn't be the first time something that was meant to be shared among a circle of friends got out to the public where it was twisted. Just giving the pilot the benefit of the doubt.
 
Girls can fly?
 
Women don't belong in the cockpit, they belong in the box office....
 
Captain said:
I'd discipline the FA who escalated a doodle to a 'company issue' to web phenomenon.
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"Discipline"? That seems a little harsh. What company policy or regulation did the FA violate by passing the note on to the captain?
 
I've always found them to be crack aviators, don't know what all the huff is about.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I've always found them to be crack aviators, don't know what all the huff is about.
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I've never seen it either, all the girls I've ever flown with we're just fine, and Betty Faux who DE'd a few of my rides was downright excellent and even highly respected by the area QBs.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I've always found them to be crack aviators, don't know what all the huff is about.
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Me either. More concerned about the state of the plane itself, definitely don't want any cracks in the airframe.
 
rbridges said:
I don't think I've ever seen a female pilot on any of my commercial flights, but it wouldn't concern me. It would probably strike me as unusual though. If she is there because of training and paying her dues, I don't care. Maybe I'm ignorant, but it doesn't strike me as a job where being physically stronger makes a lot of difference. I believe in hiring the best person for a job, regardless of race or gender.

I do have problems with women getting jobs where physical standards are lowered to allow them to qualify. I don't know if this has happened, but I remember talks of fire departments setting a lower standard for women, and I think this isn't right. Same with military and police departments. You can either meet the demands for this job or you can't. If you're strong enough to throw me on your shoulder and carry me out of a burning house, I don't care what kind of plumbing you have between your legs.
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As long as the standard is the same. I heard the argument against females being combat aircrews that they could not carry a fellow crew member out of a crash. I know many male pilots that could not meet this same standard. Physical size and strength has little to do with being a good combat pilot.
 
Henning said:
Women don't belong in the cockpit, they belong in the box office....
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A female friend of mine is a first officer with AirTran/southwest, when she has a female captain, they refer to the flight deck as the box office.:D But she's got a great attitude about being a female pilot and the issues that come with it, she just laughs and does her job! :D
 
Art VanDelay said:
I've always found them to be crack aviators, don't know what all the huff is about.
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Henning said:
I've never seen it either, all the girls I've ever flown with we're just fine, and Betty Faux who DE'd a few of my rides was downright excellent and even highly respected by the area QBs.
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catmandu said:
Me either. More concerned about the state of the plane itself, definitely don't want any cracks in the airframe.
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Either you guys missed his sarcasm or I'm more demented than even I thought I was.
 
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timwinters said:
Either you guys missed his sarcasm or I'm more demented than even I thought I am.
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No, just wasn't biting the 'crack' aviator...;) OTOH, you most likely are more demented than you think. Only the rare few of us actually realize the true depth of our dementia...:goofy::yes::rofl:
 
Henning said:
No, just wasn't biting the 'crack' aviator...;) OTOH, you most likely are more demented than you think. Only the rare few of us actually realize the true depth of our dementia...:goofy::yes::rofl:
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Remember guys, Henning does not bite crack !
 
The passenger who left the note might have had some unintended consequences.

I was volunteering at the first "Sky's No Limit. Girls Fly too" at the Langley BC airport on the weekend. Scuttlebutt was that the organizer (Kirsten) could not get any media attention until this story broke about the napkin comments. After that, the media was all over her to comment on the story.

She was able to insert her topic (the Event) into the response such that the attendance was overwhelming, the airport was PACKED. The lineup for rides was about 30-45 minutes, everyone had a good time. The weather was awful on Saturday, but Sunday made up for it.

Call me an optimist, but I choose to see the good side of this story.:goofy:
 
eaglepilot said:
I was volunteering at the first "Sky's No Limit. Girls Fly too" at the Langley BC airport on the weekend. Scuttlebutt was that the organizer (Kirsten) could not get any media attention until this story broke about the napkin comments. After that, the media was all over her to comment on the story.
...
Call me an optimist, but I choose to see the good side of this story.:goofy:
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The cynic in me wonders if Kirsten left that note.
 
I also suspect the whole episode was manufactured...

But the fact is there is sexism out there. And it goes both ways. If a female pilot is attractive/good personality AND she is competent I would say that she has an advantage... But if she looks like a bulldyke with the personality of, well a bulldyke, then maybe yes she would have a harder time getting equal treatment.

Anyone have a picture of this Captain? Preferably in a bikini? Then we can have an informed discussion.
 
jenkins said:
Anyone have a picture of this Captain? Preferably in a bikini? Then we can have an informed discussion.
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Really?

Perhaps after you post a pic of you in a Speedo.

No wait, bad idea, I just had lunch.:wonderwoman:
 
Thought problem:

Pilot A and Pilot B have identical qualifications. They have the same amount of time in the same types of planes, neither has dented an airplane or ever failed a check ride. They exceed the application requirements to apply to Big Airline, a U.S. flag part 121 international air carrier.

Both are heterosexual, both are members of the same racial classification. Neither is a felon.

The only difference is that A is female, B is male.

Who is most likely to be hired by Big Airline?
 
Everskyward said:
Also agree. But we don't know the whole story here. Perhaps the pilot posted it on Facebook as a "haha, look at this idiot" picture to her friends, not a "woe is me I got my feelings hurt" picture. It wouldn't be the first time something that was meant to be shared among a circle of friends got out to the public where it was twisted. Just giving the pilot the benefit of the doubt.
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Just because I'm a cynic and I've seen this go down before, it wouldn't surprise me if someone was trying to set up a hostile workplace claim.
 
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