Sexism still exists against female pilots

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You'll find idiots everywhere. This is a surprise?
 
flhrci said:
I thought the world was beyond this and had accepted female pilots as being normal and just fine.

Note left for female pilot: Cockpit 'no place for a woman'

http://www.today.com/travel/note-left-female-pilot-cockpit-no-place-woman-2D79324042

Shameful behavior.

David
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I don't think we will EVER get to the point that every single human being has progressed past all the old-fashioned idea (going back eons).
All races will always have some racists. Homosexuals, or anyone with a different sexual preference will always have those that object to their persuasion. There will always be men that don't respect women and women that don't respect men.

The best we can do is marginalize those types of people. Hopefully, as time goes on they will become fewer and fewer, but those types of cultural shifts take multiple generations.

And even then, the first time someone loses out on something they wanted they will find some reason to blame somebody else.
 
Getting bent about passenger opinions is what little girls do, not captains.:D
 
Things for women are immensely better than they were 20, 30, 50 years ago, but there are still those who will express those sorts of attitudes. More than you might believe.

Nevertheless, I'm grateful that it has diminished so thoroughly that most people believe it doesn't exist.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Things for women are immensely better than they were 20, 30, 50 years ago, but there are still those who will express those sorts of attitudes. More than you might believe.

Nevertheless, I'm grateful that it has diminished so thoroughly that most people believe it doesn't exist.
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That's an excellent thought. I think it applies to racism as well, although maybe not to the same extent. There is still sexism and racism aplenty, but much less than in the past, and hopefully it is all continuing to decline.
 
There are idjits everywhere. They're not going anywhere, so we have to learn to put up with them.
 
JOhnH said:
There is still sexism and racism aplenty, but much less than in the past, and hopefully it is all continuing to decline.
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I believe it will eventually die out. It's kind of hard to pull it out of the heads of people living today. More important is to not pass it on to the next generation.

<more response on this would be SZ material>
 
My instructor is an amazing pilot, an amazing person, and oh… she's a woman! Never thought I'd have to think of her as any different than any other capable pilot and human!!
 
There are parts of the world where such misogyny is institutionalized. Thankfully I don't live in one of them.
 
I walked into our laundry room the other day, and there was a note on the washing machine that read "no place for a man." Didn't really hurt my feelings. :dunno:
 
rbridges said:
I walked into our laundry room the other day, and there was a note on the washing machine that read "no place for a man." Didn't really hurt my feelings. :dunno:
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Do you think that it affected any women?
 
FWIW, If find folks that get offended at this stuff were dying to be offended beforehand anyway. Our society needs to grow up on all sides.
 
duc750sport said:
My instructor is an amazing pilot, an amazing person, and oh… she's a woman! Never thought I'd have to think of her as any different than any other capable pilot and human!!
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And you have equal crushes on male CFIs?
 
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

:)
 
It exists in many fields. My wife use to race motocross back when there was not a women's class. She as a very good technical rider but did not have the forearm strength to hang after the first moto. Often was not an issue as after the first moto when she took off her helmet and guys saw they were beaten by a girl they would pitch a fit, load up their bikes and leave.
She has experienced it as a doctor. I remember one occasion when she was on call and a Spanish speaking man was brought in with some fractures. The man told a translator that he did not want my wife, he wanted a Spanish speaking male, so my wife went back to bed. Soon their was a knock on the door. The translator said the man wanted to know when the Spanish speaking male orthopeadist was coming. My wife told him she had no idea as they were the only level trauma hospital for a 250 mile radius, and went back to bed. Soon their was a knock on the door again. The patient said he would be okay with my wife treating him.
 
David, the one that left the note for the female pilot, is a moron.
 
rbridges said:
I walked into our laundry room the other day, and there was a note on the washing machine that read "no place for a man." Didn't really hurt my feelings. :dunno:
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Are you sure that there isn't a specific reason you shouldn't be there? :D

Not every one can do everything good. LOL

David
 
I hope she said she said she had a headache! :yes:

Blackhawk said:
It exists in many fields.

Soon their was a knock on the door again. The patient said he would be okay with my wife treating him.
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Or at least tripled her fee!
 
taters said:
FWIW, If find folks that get offended at this stuff were dying to be offended beforehand anyway. Our society needs to grow up on all sides.
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If someone jumps up and screams about it, perhaps. I find David's perspective to be outmoded. Frankly, I feel sorry for the guy- he clearly has a limited world view.

There's no doubt in my mind that any fighter pilot will out fly me regardless of the plumbing between their legs. I suspect that the fighter pilot will out fly any GA despite the bravado generally associated with pilots. Say what you will, but suggesting that plumbing dictates pilot ability is really quite pathetic.

I applaud anyone to blazes a new path. Be it a business operating model that introduces a new approach to the world, a woman disregards convention and pursues her interest and takes a traditionally male role, or a man to who would rather take a role traditionally filled by women. There are certainly differences between the genders which should be applauded, but to decide that a given task/role must be fulfilled by a specific sex "because it's always been that way" is antiquated.

I'm not offended, but if someone starts talking about a woman in my life you can bet your a$$ I'll be right there next to her supporting her decision to do whatever she wants to do.
 
Kristin said:
While sexism in aviation still exists, as some of the responders herein prove, I want to know how a passenger gets access to the cockpit to leave such notes.
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The original article just said that it was "left behind". I took that to mean somewhere in the airplane, not necessarily in the cockpit.

“The cockpit of an airliner is no place for a woman,” began the note scrawled on a napkin and left behind by a passenger on a recent WestJet flight from Calgary to Victoria, B.C.
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And maybe David is a girl?

Now, who's sexist in assuming it's a guy?

Hypocrites, all of you!
 
I agree with Spike. There are shortages of some things in this world, but there is no shortage of idiots.
 
flhrci said:
I thought the world was beyond this and had accepted female pilots as being normal and just fine.

Note left for female pilot: Cockpit 'no place for a woman'

http://www.today.com/travel/note-left-female-pilot-cockpit-no-place-woman-2D79324042

Shameful behavior.

David
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I leave the same sort of note when I find out the pilot is ex-Navy.

:D

Only kidding. Mostly.

Seriously. The world is full of stupid people. Why do we always act surprised when they act stupid?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfZbFh7qlCQ
 
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flhrci said:
I thought the world was beyond this and had accepted female pilots as being normal and just fine.

Note left for female pilot: Cockpit 'no place for a woman'

http://www.today.com/travel/note-left-female-pilot-cockpit-no-place-woman-2D79324042

Shameful behavior.

David
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David, you wrote it! Signed by "David"!

I doubt any women pilot would be deterred by a drunk writing a note on the back of a napkin. If they were offended or "deterred", they shouldn't be in the cockpit. :no:
 
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Bill Watson said:
...perhaps some level of sexism is justified in the cockpit

Army Women Better Helo Pilots Than Men
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The best students I had at Ft. Rucker were women and in the line I had never had a bad female pilot. Most of the ones I encountered who were labeled "bad pilots" would actually be average pilots if they were guys. Just for some reason since they were girls guys labeled them as weak pilots.
The other thing I did not have to worry about with female pilots was the "hey, watch this" attitude. I have searched the NTSB data base and, while there are probably some accidents out there, I have never found one where a female was killed doing a buzz job. Frankly, looking back on my early military career I'm am dumbfounded at surviving some of the stupid pilot tricks I pulled. Nothing like being a new 20 something, indestructible pilot in Korea where there were really only three rules. 1. Don't go past the DMZ 2. Don't fly into P-73 or the presidential prohibited areas 3. Don't break anything. In 2 1/2 years of flying there I never heard of anyone getting in trouble for flying too low.
 
Blackhawk said:
The best students I had at Ft. Rucker were women and in the line I had never had a bad female pilot. Most of the ones I encountered who were labeled "bad pilots" would actually be average pilots if they were guys. Just for some reason since they were girls guys labeled them as weak pilots.
The other thing I did not have to worry about with female pilots was the "hey, watch this" attitude. I have searched the NTSB data base and, while there are probably some accidents out there, I have never found one where a female was killed doing a buzz job. Frankly, looking back on my early military career I'm am dumbfounded at surviving some of the stupid pilot tricks I pulled. Nothing like being a new 20 something, indestructible pilot in Korea where there were really only three rules. 1. Don't go past the DMZ 2. Don't fly into P-73 or the presidential prohibited areas 3. Don't break anything. In 2 1/2 years of flying there I never heard of anyone getting in trouble for flying too low.
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The highest grade I ever gave to a student at Rucker was a female student. Really didn't see many weak ones but I think it's impossible to compare male vs female. I mean what is a "good" pilot anyway? Is it strictly based on accident history? That won't be acurrate because there's no telling who was on the controls when some accidents occurred. A lot of the accidents have occurred during some demanding profiles. How many of those were women assigned these big high level missions where accidents occur? I just think the data is skewed in the article. Way more variables involved than just a simple comparision of percentage of women vs men and the accident percentage with that.

I agree, the fact that myself and several of my friends are still alive after bone headed mistakes early in our careers is a miracle.;)
 
Velocity173 said:
The highest grade I ever gave to a student at Rucker was a female student. Really didn't see many weak ones but I think it's impossible to compare male vs female. I mean what is a "good" pilot anyway? Is it strictly based on accident history? That won't be acurrate because there's no telling who was on the controls when some accidents occurred. A lot of the accidents have occurred during some demanding profiles. How many of those were women assigned these big high level missions where accidents occur? I just think the data is skewed in the article. Way more variables involved than just a simple comparision of percentage of women vs men and the accident percentage with that.

I agree, the fact that myself and several of my friends are still alive after bone headed mistakes early in our careers is a miracle.;)
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I agree on your point about the accident statistics on male vs female pilots in the Army. Too many variables at this point.

I saw with my wife the negative attitude toward female pilots in the military. I was an IP at Rucker when she went through flight school. Helped her with studies at times and she was very sharp. Did very well in primary. Day 1 of instruments she gets a pink slip in the simulator as being a deficient instrument pilot. I was ****ed. How in the &^ll can you give someone a pink slip day 1 of any phase if they have a good attitude and have their questions done?? I told her she needed to immediately get an IP change, but she refused. The guy was an ahole to her the entire phase and she hates instruments to this day.
Second incident occurred when she was selected as the second female to fly -58Ds. She already had a tour under her belt flying UH-1s single pilot in Korea. The Army knew this was not popular among the scout pilots and selected her IP- a tough but fair IP. Things went well. She is a natural pilot and is sharp so she knew her stuff. One day she has a guest IP. The guy starts asking her preflight questions like "How many Ohms are put out by this wiring of the DEC? How much torque is put out by the tail rotor gear box?" Pointless questions. She got a pink slip for the day. The guy was trying to make a point that she did not belong.
When she got to her unit she was among the "top guns" at every gunnery range. I always said that nothing scared me more than the thought of a ****ed off female with .50cals, 2.75" rockets and Hellfire missiles.
 
Kristin said:
While sexism in aviation still exists, as some of the responders herein prove, I want to know how a passenger gets access to the cockpit to leave such notes.
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He left the note on his seat .
 
Blackhawk said:
I agree on your point about the accident statistics on male vs female pilots in the Army. Too many variables at this point.

I saw with my wife the negative attitude toward female pilots in the military. I was an IP at Rucker when she went through flight school. Helped her with studies at times and she was very sharp. Did very well in primary. Day 1 of instruments she gets a pink slip in the simulator as being a deficient instrument pilot. I was ****ed. How in the &^ll can you give someone a pink slip day 1 of any phase if they have a good attitude and have their questions done?? I told her she needed to immediately get an IP change, but she refused. The guy was an ahole to her the entire phase and she hates instruments to this day.
Second incident occurred when she was selected as the second female to fly -58Ds. She already had a tour under her belt flying UH-1s single pilot in Korea. The Army knew this was not popular among the scout pilots and selected her IP- a tough but fair IP. Things went well. She is a natural pilot and is sharp so she knew her stuff. One day she has a guest IP. The guy starts asking her preflight questions like "How many Ohms are put out by this wiring of the DEC? How much torque is put out by the tail rotor gear box?" Pointless questions. She got a pink slip for the day. The guy was trying to make a point that she did not belong.
When she got to her unit she was among the "top guns" at every gunnery range. I always said that nothing scared me more than the thought of a ****ed off female with .50cals, 2.75" rockets and Hellfire missiles.
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Yeah no doubt the initial women combat pilots had it rough. These days there's been so many of them go through the program that the sexist attitudes are almost nonexistent. If anything they get treated better than male pilots. A lot of times, male pilots in the unit get over protective of their female counterparts. I'd say for the most part it's just a minor distraction and rarely affects unit cohesion. I never looked on the women as just one of the guys but I always treated them professionally and graded them fairly.
 
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