Safety Pilot Questions

Possum

Possum

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Frank
Can a basic med pilot ride as a safety pilot for IFR practice or does it have to be at least a class 3 medical? Also, does the safety pilot have to sign the pilots logbook and provide his certificate number or does the practicing pilot just put the safety pilots name in the logbook? Thanks
 
You can be safety pilot if you are the PIC for the flight. So if you did NOT have a complex endorsement, you could not safety pilot under basic med if in an Arrow. No signing of logbooks. The person requiring the safety pilot just writes the safety pilot's name in his logbook.

Basically, are you legal to fly the plane, and do you have all the endorsements etc to ACT as PIC? Then yes you can safety pilot if you are the PIC under basic med.
 
Ran into that issue with a friend of mine.

He's BasicMed, and my plane's a Piper Lance.

The Lance is capable of being seven seats, which exceeds the capability of a BasicMed pilot. Thus, legally not allowed to be PIC, thus doesn't qualify as safety pilot.

There's an STC for the Lance which "removes" the capability of a seventh seat, thus, making the plane BasicMed qualified. I don't have this STC, and don't plan on getting it unless I need to at some future time.
 
Yeah, the FAA and Congress went full retard with that bit of legislation and regulation. Can act as 1st in command but not second. Idiocracy at its finest.
 
Okay, so I need a safety pilot so I don't lose currency. The pilot I get to fly with me is on basic med. He has to be pilot in command. I fly the plane and get my 6 approaches and holds in. I am now current, even though I had to name the safety pilot as pic. How do I log that?

The next question would be, "What if I am also flying on basic med? Is this allowed and am I current for ifr flight after the flight is completed under this scenario as well if it is allowed?"

Just so we don't complicate things, the flights were conducted under the hood in vfr conditions.
 
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Piper18O said:
Okay, so I need a safety pilot so I don't lose currency. The pilot I get to fly with me is on basic med. He has to be pilot in command. I fly the plane and get my 6 approaches and holds in. I am now current, even though I had to name the safety pilot as pic. How do I log that?
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Just like you would log any other flight.
Just put his name in the remarks. (Joe Smith, safety pilot)

The next question would be, "What if I am also flying on basic med? Is this allowed and am I current for ifr flight after the flight is completed under this scenario as well if it is allowed?"

Just so we don't complicate things, the flights were conducted under the hood in vfr conditions.
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Yes, allowed. He's acting as PIC and you're logging as sole manipulator.
 
Piper18O said:
Okay, so I need a safety pilot so I don't lose currency. The pilot I get to fly with me is on basic med. He has to be pilot in command. I fly the plane and get my 6 approaches and holds in. I am now current, even though I had to name the safety pilot as pic. How do I log that?
Click to expand...
You log it in the "PIC" column because you were the sole manipulator of the controls, in an aircraft for which you are certificated and rated. Note the name of your safety pilot in the logbook, and log the approaches.

Piper18O said:
The next question would be, "What if I am also flying on basic med? Is this allowed and am I current for ifr flight after the flight is completed under this scenario as well if it is allowed?"
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Yes. You still flew the approaches, and you can log them as approaches. The fact that your buddy was acting PIC is irrelevant. Just as when you were instrument training and not rated at all -- you logged the approaches and were (probably) current as soon as your IR checkride was over.​
 
kath said:
You log it in the "PIC" column because you were the sole manipulator of the controls, in an aircraft for which you are certificated and rated. Note the name of your safety pilot in the logbook, and log the approaches.


Yes. You still flew the approaches, and you can log them as approaches. The fact that your buddy was acting PIC is irrelevant. Just as when you were instrument training and not rated at all -- you logged the approaches and were (probably) current as soon as your IR checkride was over.​
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The instrument check ride sets the currency whether you had 6+1 in the previous 6 calendar months or not. Although, I find that situation to be highly unlikely considering the requirements to take the check ride.

If you took your check ride on, say today, you'd be current until March 31, 2021 even if your previous 3 approaches prior to the check ride were in August, or even July. (assuming you fly only three approaches on the check ride.)
 
EdFred said:
The instrument check ride sets the currency whether you had 6+1 in the previous 6 calendar months or not. Although, I find that situation to be highly unlikely considering the requirements to take the check ride.

If you took your check ride on, say today, you'd be current until March 31, 2021 even if your previous 3 approaches prior to the check ride were in August, or even July. (assuming you fly only three approaches on the check ride.)
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Really? I'm looking for that in 61.57, and don't see anything that says this... Where should I look?

Does a checkride also reset regular 90-day currency or night currency? I would say "no". If so, where do I find that?
 
kath said:
You log it in the "PIC" column because you were the sole manipulator of the controls, in an aircraft for which you are certificated and rated. Note the name of your safety pilot in the logbook, and log the approaches.
Click to expand...

So i log it in the PIC column even though I was not the official PIC. Is that because there is no real other place to log?
 
kath said:
Does a checkride also reset regular 90-day currency or night currency? I would say "no". If so, where do I find that?
Click to expand...

I would think that it does not reset the night currency. Night currency is not required in passing a checkride. Night currency only applies to carrying passengers and can be attained by yourself anytime with just 3 full stop landings. The IFR checkride, or in the alternative after the rating is attained the IPC resets the clock because you are deemed current and competent to fly IFR.
 
Piper18O said:
So i log it in the PIC column even though I was not the official PIC. Is that because there is no real other place to log?
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No, you log it there because that's what 61.51(e) says you can do if you are the sole manipulator of the controls.
"Being" the official pilot in command is NOT related to whether you log something in the PIC column, according to the regs. Wild, but that's how the regs are written.

-- mucking around in regs again, thanks to Ed... :)
 
kath said:
No, you log it there because that's what 61.51(e) says you can do if you are the sole manipulator of the controls.
"Being" the official pilot in command is NOT related to whether you log something in the PIC column, according to the regs. Wild, but that's how the regs are written.
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Yes, now that I think of it, the approaches are logged separately from the time, and since it is only the approaches that matter for currency, I understand why PIC on this point is a moot.

Ironic that you could have 2 pilots, both flying under basic med, the safety pilot without an ifr rating logs pic time while doing nothing but sitting there and looking out for traffic, while the pilot under the hood does the flying and has the rating, and he doesn't log the PIC time. Yep, that sounds like a government regulation in today's world.
 
Piper18O said:
Yes, now that I think of it, the approaches are logged separately from the time, and since it is only the approaches that matter for currency, I understand why PIC on this point is a moot.

Ironic that you could have 2 pilots, both flying under basic med, the safety pilot without an ifr rating logs pic time while doing nothing but sitting there and looking out for traffic, while the pilot under the hood does the flying and has the rating, and he doesn't log the PIC time. Yep, that sounds like a government regulation in today's world.
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What?
 
Salty said:
What?
Click to expand...

Approaches are logged in a separate column, and the currency we are talking about is for instrument flight. If you were questioning something else, you will have to be less vague.
 
Salty said:
Both can log pic
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The AOPA article said, "Even though the pilot under the hood cannot simultaneously act as PIC, the simulated instrument flight still satisfies that pilot’s recent flight experience requirements for a PIC under FAR 61.57, since that regulation does not require the pilot to be acting as PIC while he or she performed the required tasks during the simulated instrument flight."

WannFly said:
https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2017/september/01/basicmed-and-safety-pilots
Click to expand...

Is this not correct, or are you saying that you can log pic even though you are not acting as pic since you are manipulating the controls?
 
Piper18O said:
The AOPA article said, "Even though the pilot under the hood cannot simultaneously act as PIC, the simulated instrument flight still satisfies that pilot’s recent flight experience requirements for a PIC under FAR 61.57, since that regulation does not require the pilot to be acting as PIC while he or she performed the required tasks during the simulated instrument flight."



Is this not correct, or are you saying that you can log pic even though you are not acting as pic since you are manipulating the controls?
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You’re confusing act and log. Both can log, only one is acting.
 
If your friend is acting as safety pilot and also acting as PIC for the flight, then he can also log in the "PIC" column, because of a *different* provision of that same logging reg.
It says you can log in the PIC column if the flight requires two crewmembers (which this one does, if one person is under the hood) *and* you are acting as the PIC.

Sole manipulator? Rated in the aircraft? Then log PIC, whether you're acting as one or not.
Safety pilot? AND acting as PIC for the flight, and legal to do so? Then log PIC. The person next to you (who is sole manipulating) can also log PIC for different reasons, and this is fine.
Safety pilot but NOT acting as PIC for the flight? You can log SIC.
Taking a friend out for lunch, and acting as PIC but letting them do all the flying? Technically, you should *not* be logging PIC for this. Your buddy the sole manipulator can, if he or she is rated. It's possible that neither person can.

I don't see anything in that article about logging, so nothing contradictory to this. It is a nice article about ACTING as PIC.​
 
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kath said:
Really? I'm looking for that in 61.57, and don't see anything that says this... Where should I look?

Does a checkride also reset regular 90-day currency or night currency? I would say "no". If so, where do I find that?
Click to expand...
Are you asking whether getting an instrument rating today starts the currency clock?
 
kath said:
Really? I'm looking for that in 61.57, and don't see anything that says this... Where should I look?
Click to expand...
Appendix 5 of the Instrument ACS outlines the requirements for an IPC. An instrument checkride meets those requirements.
 
Piper18O said:
The AOPA article said, "Even though the pilot under the hood cannot simultaneously act as PIC, the simulated instrument flight still satisfies that pilot’s recent flight experience requirements for a PIC under FAR 61.57, since that regulation does not require the pilot to be acting as PIC while he or she performed the required tasks during the simulated instrument flight."



Is this not correct, or are you saying that you can log pic even though you are not acting as pic since you are manipulating the controls?
Click to expand...

I am not saying anything, these regs give me a headache.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Appendix 5 of the Instrument ACS outlines the requirements for an IPC. An instrument checkride meets those requirements.
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Huh. Well, I learned something today...
(Maybe someday I'll go for that double-I...)
 
EdFred said:
Kath - if it is not specifiaclly listed in 61.57 it was either an AC or CC opinion that stated the currency clock for IFR was set by the check ride date.
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2008 Wynne Letter

I've thought about writing an article on the 10 silliest questions asked of the Chief Counsel but figured it was too politically incorrect.

Maybe shortest responses by the Chief Counsel would be better. Probably turn out to be the same list.
 
Ok, I’ll be the ‘necro’ thread reviver today :).

When logging safety pilot time, are we required to write anything specific in the ‘Remarks’ section of the logbook entry, as far as who the safety pilot was or who we were riding safety for?

@Ryan F. @dmspilot @midlifeflyer
@tonycondon
 
My logbook has columns for PIC and SIC. There are lots of hours in both columns based on acting as part of a two-pilot required crew under part 135.

If I am the sole manipulator of a part 91 flight, under the hood with a safety pilot, which column is used? Neither? (Both of us are qualified and current).

Maybe newer logbooks have extra columns for this corner case...
 
IK04 said:
My logbook has columns for PIC and SIC. There are lots of hours in both columns based on acting as part of a two-pilot required crew under part 135.

If I am the sole manipulator of a part 91 flight, under the hood with a safety pilot, which column is used? Neither? (Both of us are qualified and current).

Maybe newer logbooks have extra columns for this corner case...
Click to expand...
Why would you not log PIC as sole manipulator of the controls?
 
IK04 said:
My logbook has columns for PIC and SIC. There are lots of hours in both columns based on acting as part of a two-pilot required crew under part 135.

If I am the sole manipulator of a part 91 flight, under the hood with a safety pilot, which column is used? Neither? (Both of us are qualified and current).

Maybe newer logbooks have extra columns for this corner case...
Click to expand...
What "corner case?" Each logging box in 61.51 - the "Universal Rule of Logging Flight Time" (my term), stands alone.

If you are the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft you are rated for while acting as qualified SIC in an aircraft requiring two pilots at night in actual instrument conditions, you log PIC, SIC, night, and actual.

The Part 61 regulations on logging for certificates, ratings, FAA qualifications and currency don't differentiate between parts 91, 135, etc. if you want to add other categories that the FAA doesn't count - retract time, distinguishing safety pilot PIC or SIC from the "real" thing for career purposes, point-to$point cross countries for Part 135 qualification, or flying at night while snow is falling - there's nothing preventing you from adding columns or creating a separate logbook "addendum" if you don't have columns to spare.

(eLogs make this easy)
 
The recent balloon commercial medical requirement also contains a clause that opens up basic med to any required crewmember which covers safety piloting even if you are not PIC.

The goofiness in the reg was that for expedience the FAA didn't stray from the congressional mandate on what basic med should be.
 
midlifeflyer said:
If you are the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft you are rated for while acting as qualified SIC in an aircraft requiring two pilots at night in actual instrument conditions, you log PIC, SIC, night, and actual.
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Mark, are you saying you would log PIC AND SIC on the same flight? I would never have thought to do that. I never logged PIC when I was sole manipulator SIC although by rights I could have. My choice. But I am not sure about logging both on the same flight.
 
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