Saab to be shuttered

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Well we have tarrifs now and they are nothing new. I expect that same. The question is how to put them in the right industry sectors. Over use of them is not a good idea.

I'm not talking about tariffs (sorry for the confusion).

Instead, I'm thinking more along the lines of "if you don't make it here, you're not allowed to sell it here."

I'm not saying it's necessarily a good idea (you're right - tariffs have historically been an overall negative for the U.S.); but I do expect to see something along those lines attempted (at least).

 

[ScottM]

I'm not talking about tariffs (sorry for the confusion).

Instead, I'm thinking more along the lines of "if you don't make it here, you're not allowed to sell it here."

.

I am not sure we will ever see that. I am pretty sure that international trade treaties would no allow that type of action. Even protectionist tariffs have come under fire.

 

[ScottM]

Go to Prague. Visit the Wenceslas memorial. We got nothing on Christmas (er Feast of Stephen)...

C'mon, you are kidding me with that?? That sounds like the lyrics to a song!!!

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

I am not sure we will ever see that. I am pretty sure that international trade treaties would no allow that type of action. Even protectionist tariffs have come under fire.

Like (I think) I might have mentioned, the biggest obstacle would be the foreign policy implications. And, those are significant. Particularly in the area of foreign trade agreements.

But, without trying to send this into SZ, there comes a point at which you have to weigh the benefits of continuing to honor a treaty against the benefits of breaking it. When it comes to things like treaties, it's a dog-eat-dog world...and, to paraphrase Norm, the U.S. is wearing milk-bone underwear.

There's a wonderful paragraph in Gibbon's Decline and Fall regarding the Romans' purchase of luxuries (for the women, keep in mind this was written in the 1770's): it's to the effect of "the Romans spent massive amounts of national resources buying things, from people outside the Roman world that would become enemies of Rome in the future, that were not needed to preserve either themselves or their quality of life - and, once spent, those resources could not be recovered."

While history never repeats itself, it's worth keeping the Roman experience in mind....

 

[Everskyward]

Instead, I'm thinking more along the lines of "if you don't make it here, you're not allowed to sell it here."

I think that would be a huge step backward because, of course, that would also mean, "if you make it here you can't sell it there."

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

I think that would be a huge step backward because, of course, that would also mean, "if you make it here you can't sell it there."

Indeed, but that begs the question of what we export.

I'm not familiar enough with global trade patterns to really know authoritatively, but memory says that our primary exports are things like scrap steel, movies, technology that we've invented that can be both made and improved elsewhere, and manufacturing jobs....

Anyway, I guess I ought to shut my cakehole before sending this to SZ.

 

[Everskyward]

Indeed, but that begs the question of what we export.

Airplanes. OK, I kept it aviation related.

 

[wabower]

If you really think that when you buy a stock that means somebody else has to lose (from your earlier post) you might want to spend part of the holidays brushing up on how the market really works.

Wow pleasant thoughts around the holidays eh??
( really, most of the time I'm pretty upbeat and positive, but this past year has really got me down, I think I need to go flying and burn some more fossil fuel,100LL, and spread the lead)
Happy Holidays Everyone And to all a good night

 

[flyingcheesehead]

We bought a Volvo S70 T5 with a 5sp and had to special order it back in '97. There was only one available in the US at the time. They thought I was nuts. "Sure you don't want an automatic??" Like heck!

My VW is one. Seems the only 6-speeds are coming out of Germany.

Well, I don't have a 6-speed, but I do have a 5-speed on my Volvo S60 T5... And I think that may be why I got such a good deal on it! Seems most people these days are too lazy to shift, or don't know how.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I agree re: Ford trucks. My parents actually did like their Ford trucks wayyy back in the day. My brother gets a new Ford pickup every 4-5 years - they are hauling horses and all the accoutrements thereof (you know, hay...) and needs a big tough truck.

Some of Ford's recent developments have impressed me, and obviously others as well. They seem to be doing very well right now.

Ford's biggest problem, IMHO, is their dealer network. Their dealers SUCK. Ford needs to give 'em all some customer service training.

 

[kevin47881]

Some of Ford's recent developments have impressed me, and obviously others as well. They seem to be doing very well right now.

Ford's biggest problem, IMHO, is their dealer network. Their dealers SUCK. Ford needs to give 'em all some customer service training.

I agree completely! CS training is exceptionally difficult due to the turn over rate. I've been involved directly and indirectly with process improvement training at dealerships for 20 years and it's an on-going battle. Not impossible, just difficult.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I do go to a locally owned cheese shop for my imported cheeses!

Imported from Wisconsin, I hope.

 

[el con]

If you really think that when you buy a stock that means somebody else has to lose (from your earlier post) you might want to spend part of the holidays brushing up on how the market really works.

I know that was a simplistic statement, maybe more of a pyramid scheme.
Company issues initial stock ie. 10,000 shares.
Buyers pay let's say $2.00 a share , company gets $20,000 less fee's
Stock is traded over and over ,company get's nothing from the trading sales (unless they retain stock.)
Some buyers gain ,some lose. Brokers make money on both.
When the market is going up it seems like everybody is winning, although many panic and sell at below their cost when the market goes in a down cycle.
I think many people don't realize that the market is strickly a gambling operation. The really big players can ,and do, manipulate the market through wall street traders.SEC catchs some oncei n a while.
The US has gotten to the point where the only way to ever build a retirement nest egg is through stock. Gone are the days of safely putting your money in a savings account with a decent guaranteed interest.
Instead of your money being loaned out to valued adding companies, we have to put it in our gambling portfolios , where the money is just spun around by not hardworking companies ,but by day traders and such who add no value to our society ,but pad their pockets from the losses that the poor working class saps incure.
Again a simple view I know. When you invest in the initial stock offer you're helping a business, if the stock pays a dividend you're making some money.
If you're day trading and you're making money, in many cases you're taking from some poor slob's mutual fund. The pyramid part is the last guy's to get out when it starts tanking, those are the optimist's until they get their statement.
I would propose a dividend only stock market, to take the trading gamble out ,providing long term investments with more stength put toward growth and stability, and less of the gamble /greed, aspects of the current market.

 

[Everskyward]

If you really think that when you buy a stock that means somebody else has to lose (from your earlier post) you might want to spend part of the holidays brushing up on how the market really works.

I know that was a simplistic statement, maybe more of a pyramid scheme.
Company issues initial stock ie. 10,000 shares.
Buyers pay let's say $2.00 a share , company gets $20,000 less fee's
Stock is traded over and over ,company get's nothing from the trading sales (unless they retain stock.)
Some buyers gain ,some lose. Brokers make money on both.
When the market is going up it seems like everybody is winning, although many panic and sell at below their cost when the market goes in a down cycle.
I think many people don't realize that the market is strickly a gambling operation. The really big players can ,and do, manipulate the market through wall street traders.SEC catchs some oncei n a while.
The US has gotten to the point where the only way to ever build a retirement nest egg is through stock. Gone are the days of safely putting your money in a savings account with a decent guaranteed interest.
Instead of your money being loaned out to valued adding companies, we have to put it in our gambling portfolios , where the money is just spun around by not hardworking companies ,but by day traders and such who add no value to our society ,but pad their pockets from the losses that the poor working class saps incure.
Again a simple view I know. When you invest in the initial stock offer you're helping a business, if the stock pays a dividend you're making some money.
If you're day trading and you're making money, in many cases you're taking from some poor slob's mutual fund. The pyramid part is the last guy's to get out when it starts tanking, those are the optimist's until they get their statement.
I would propose a dividend only stock market, to take the trading gamble out ,providing long term investments with more stength put toward growth and stability, and less of the gamble /greed, aspects of the current market.

I rest Wabower's case.

 

[el con]

I think that would be a huge step backward because, of course, that would also mean, "if you make it here you can't sell it there."

That is true!,
What we need to do is balance the trade , we buy 300 billion from China, they buy 300 billion from us, etc, etc etc, . This would not be protectionist, this would wise business for us.

 

[ScottM]

Imported from Wisconsin, I hope.

I have not found a Wisconsin Cheese, outside of fresh cheese curds, that I really like. Mostly I get Spanish, French, and Swiss cheeses.

 

[Ghery]

For dinner tonight I drank and American bottle of wine.

No French stuff for me on this most American of days. When Rudolph and Santa died for my rights to buy gifts and stand in lines.

Wait, I might have that a little wrong

But at any rate. I had a nice bottle of Chateau Ste. Michelle Chardonnay. A simple wine from Woodenville, WA. I had the pleasure of visiting the winery a year or so ago. But found this bottle in my local wine shop. It went very well with the lobster tail, braised cabbage and potatoes ala Provence that I cooked for supper this evening.

Their Riesling is much better. But, I don't particulary care for Chardonnay.

And one of the best things about California wineries is that they do an excellent job of matching their wines to those who drink them.

Yeah, but Scott was talking about a wine from Washington state, not California. And that winery does a good job.

 

[Henning]

Shoot, I've had several Saabs over the years, there was nothing particularly wrong with them and they weren't any worse than any other car I've had. The only complaint I really had with one was the one I had in Aus was a 900EMS, right hand drive, but they left the key on the right side of the parking brake handle so it was always a bit of a contortion trick to turn the key with my left hand. Only real complaint I had with any of the Saabs I owned. My Saabs did better than my Beemers, that's for sure, way more reliable and less work to keep running.

 

[Henning]

Use coffee as an example, then. You only drink Kona from Hawaii, right? None of that Columbian stuff.

Ha! I have discovered Indonesian Mongoose Poo coffee....

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I have not found a Wisconsin Cheese, outside of fresh cheese curds, that I really like. Mostly I get Spanish, French, and Swiss cheeses.

I like Swiss cheese too - From Wisconsin.

I'm not talking anything fancy - Just your plain old cheddar, swiss, etc. should be from WI. If you want Brie or Limburger or any of those "fancy" (ie weird, IMHO) Euro cheeses you're free to shop elsewhere.