Saab to be shuttered

[steingar]

I keep cars an average of a decade and a half. Don't rack up huge miles though, since I live close to the University. I don't think I've ever had to fix anything but wear items on any of the Nip cars.

When I bought my Nissan truck I looked at the Ford equivalent (at the time it was the Ranger, I believe). I didn't buy one because I couldn't get anyone to actually talk to me. A few years later I met someone who bought a new Ranger about the same time as I bought my Nissan. The Ranger had suffered a litany of defects that cost thousands of dollars to fix. My Nissan needed gas and oil. Never needed much more than that, until my neighbor's tree fell on it.

 

[SCCutler]

And that's the part that GM at least never understood or cared about, IMO. Chevrolet and their Zone service people screwed me around over warping brake rotors on a Celebrity I had in the late '80s, that culminated in their telling me that, "all FWD cars do that" and I remembered that.

Honda, on the other hand, sent me a letter on my '89 Civic with 90,000 miles offering voluntarily to replace an ignition system component that they said didn't meet their quality standards...

THis was the infamous Honda "Ignitor" module.

That letter was part of the settlement of a class-action lawsuit.

I had a Honda, and it was by far the least-reliable car I have ever driven (Civic). But I do not for the briefest moment hink it was representative of the marque as a whole.

 

[Trapper John]

THis was the infamous Honda "Ignitor" module.

That letter was part of the settlement of a class-action lawsuit.

I had a Honda, and it was by far the least-reliable car I have ever driven (Civic). But I do not for the briefest moment hink it was representative of the marque as a whole.

That's very interesting! I thought those kinds of things had to have specific wording relating the fact that it was part of a settlement? I don't remember any of that on the letter, but it was quite a while back, maybe '94 or so.


Trapper John

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

...

I've been pretty lucky with cars.

A lot of it depends on how you drive and how you treat the vehicle.

 

[wabower]

Trap,

Lawyers remember class action suits the same way mama's remember their kids' birthdays. Because it was a significant milestone in their lives.

That's very interesting! I thought those kinds of things had to have specific wording relating the fact that it was part of a settlement? I don't remember any of that on the letter, but it was quite a while back, maybe '94 or so.


Trapper John

 

[el con]

Well I've never bought any foriegn cars as it goes against my red blooded American heritage. I told my kid's if they bought one they would have to park it out in the street.
I've had Ford's, GM's even a Chrysler product or two over the 42 years that I've been driving. Happy with every single one.
I currently have a GMC Safari AWD Van with a tad over 250,000 mi. on it . I'd head across the country tomorrow if I needed to.
We had another that went over 365,000 before selling it to someone else to drive. We change the oil and filter every 10,000 mi. if it needs it or not,sometimes 15,000 miles between changes.
Biggest problem with American cars is they have been contaminated with metric nut's and bolts.

My personal thoughts on this it is probably the driver more than the vehicle, I have driven more than 2 million miles and only been left on the side of the road once due to a rotor coming loose in the distributor after an un-needed first tune up after 150,000 miles. Mechanic did'nt tighten the screws up.
Keep the profits in America,buy US cars so we can all keep our jobs.( and no I don't work for the big three)
No Saab story here, I love my American cars and planes

 

[Ted]

A lot of it depends on how you drive and how you treat the vehicle.

Ain't that the truth. One of my friends keeps wondering why his cars require so much maintenance no wonder what he buys. Maybe if he stopped using the various control implements as on/off devices, he'd get longer life out of them...

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

...
Biggest problem with American cars is they have been contaminated with metric nut's and bolts.

....

That's enough to make your BP go through the roof....

 

[flyersfan31]

Well I've never bought any foriegn cars as it goes against my red blooded American heritage. I told my kid's if they bought one they would have to park it out in the street.
I've had Ford's, GM's even a Chrysler product or two over the 42 years that I've been driving. Happy with every single one.

Are you sure about that??? Some Chryslers are built in Windsor, ONT. Some Fords in Mexico. Toyota Camry, Honda Accord -- built in the US by 'muricans. Are they foreign? Supplied by suppliers adjacent to the factories. Located in America's heartland, no less.

 

[rpadula]

To get this back on topic, apparently Spyker is trying to resurrect the deal.

And for those of you wondering what a Spyker is...

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/quirk-chasing-quirk-spyker-saab-and-other-sob-stories

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Are you sure about that??? Some Chryslers are built in Windsor, ONT. Some Fords in Mexico. Toyota Camry, Honda Accord -- built in the US by 'muricans. Are they foreign? Supplied by suppliers adjacent to the factories. Located in America's heartland, no less.

Final assembly is the tip of the iceberg.

If I wasn't lazy I would try to track down the numbers that have been published, But a lot more money ends up in the US when you buy a Chrysler assembled in Ontario compared to a Honda in Ohio.

 

[el con]

Are you sure about that??? Some Chryslers are built in Windsor, ONT. Some Fords in Mexico. Toyota Camry, Honda Accord -- built in the US by 'muricans. Are they foreign? Supplied by suppliers adjacent to the factories. Located in America's heartland, no less.

I understand what you're saying, but if you look close on my post it was buy American to keep the "Profits" here. That was the important part.
If everybody want's to work for and depend on a foreign company, we will all spiral down to living a lifestyle of the world average---- no thanks for me

 

[Everskyward]

If everybody want's to work for and depend on a foreign company, we will all spiral down to living a lifestyle of the world average---- no thanks for me

Like it or not, foreign companies create a lot of jobs here in this country... including mine.

 

[flyersfan31]

I understand what you're saying, but if you look close on my post it was buy American to keep the "Profits" here. That was the important part.
If everybody want's to work for and depend on a foreign company, we will all spiral down to living a lifestyle of the world average---- no thanks for me

Profits for shareholders are spread worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but I'm willing to bet there are Toyota and Honda ADRs paying dividends to US holders, and if not I am willing to bet there are intl money funds invested in the Tokyo mkt returning dividends and cap gains to the US, soooooo, the profit issue is not nearly as clearcut as you imagine.

Moreover, how about all those 'murican assemblyline workers. They don't spend their pay in Tokyo. They spend it down at Joe's Bar drinking, well, hopefully Sam Adams, since Bud is Belgian, Coors is Canadian, and Miller is South Africa. Yeah, Sam Adams is a bit yuppy, but at least it's American, right?

Why does working for a foreign company mean you will have a lifestyle that spirals down to the world average, whatever that means?? My wife worked for Deutsche Bank and I can guarantee you we did just fine. How 'bout those Bud brewers working for the Belgians. I don't see that they are suddenly living like Somalis.

 

[el con]

Profits for shareholders are spread worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but I'm willing to bet there are Toyota and Honda ADRs paying dividends to US holders, and if not I am willing to bet there are intl money funds invested in the Tokyo mkt returning dividends and cap gains to the US, soooooo, the profit issue is not nearly as clearcut as you imagine.

Moreover, how about all those 'murican assemblyline workers. They don't spend their pay in Tokyo. They spend it down at Joe's Bar drinking, well, hopefully Sam Adams, since Bud is Belgian, Coors is Canadian, and Miller is South Africa. Yeah, Sam Adams is a bit yuppy, but at least it's American, right?

Why does working for a foreign company mean you will have a lifestyle that spirals down to the world average, whatever that means?? My wife worked for Deutsche Bank and I can guarantee you we did just fine. How 'bout those Bud brewers working for the Belgians. I don't see that they are suddenly living like Somalis.

Sorry, I don't drink beer, what I'm saying is the capital needed for re-investment in this country and to keep our lifestyle where it has been for the last 50 years we will wither away. In a crude sort of way if your not the big dog in the lead ,guess where your nose is when you're in second place.
Another example take 2 billion chinese @ what a $1,000 a year ea. wage and average it with 200 million Americans at $25,000 a year average( I'm pretty sure that's the current one). Apply the new world order math and figure in your or your childrens pay cut.
I know simplistic but the direction we're headed IMHO
Our manufacturing in this country is virtually gone, our kids are dumber on the average to the rest of the world, we've got the boy's on wall street, using smoke and mirrors to invest our money, we have a govenment that can't keep Social Security afloat, but believes they can run a national health care system, the list goes on.
Please list all the positives you've seen recently, you and your wife may be doing well now,congratulations, I hope we can all say that down the road.
If you don't believe me on this come to Mich. and see the 2 of every 10 out of work, look at the thousands ,yes THOUSANDS of empty commercial buildings, and tens of thousands of forclosed houses sitting empty.
Most of us that fly are a little on the higher side of the scale,so you might not notice, but on the average as a country,we're sliding downward.
Quite a Saab story eh?

Next stop spin zone

 

[gprellwitz]

Sorry, I don't drink beer,

Use coffee as an example, then. You only drink Kona from Hawaii, right? None of that Columbian stuff.

 

[el con]

Profits for shareholders are spread worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but I'm willing to bet there are Toyota and Honda ADRs paying dividends to US holders, and if not I am willing to bet there are intl money funds invested in the Tokyo mkt returning dividends and cap gains to the US, soooooo, the profit issue is not nearly as clearcut as you imagine.

Moreover, how about all those 'murican assemblyline workers. They don't spend their pay in Tokyo. They spend it down at Joe's Bar drinking, well, hopefully Sam Adams, since Bud is Belgian, Coors is Canadian, and Miller is South Africa. Yeah, Sam Adams is a bit yuppy, but at least it's American, right?

Why does working for a foreign company mean you will have a lifestyle that spirals down to the world average, whatever that means?? My wife worked for Deutsche Bank and I can guarantee you we did just fine. How 'bout those Bud brewers working for the Belgians. I don't see that they are suddenly living like Somalis.

Hey, I missed one other little point.
Your Profits,stockholders, dividends:
You did know the stock market is a gambling scheme right??
As the owner of a decent sized company ,I get calls all the time from wall street, a guy asking me to invest in the latest hot prospect. They say they have made millions and want to let me in on this. They usually hang up when I ask them why they want to let me in, why don't they invest there millions and make billions for themselves.
A company has an initial offering of stock ,it sells for whatever, the company has an infusion of cash, great!!
Wall Street sells the stock over and over,trading, the company doesn't profit from that ,they don't get a dime. For you to profit on your stock purchase someone has to lose!!! Meaning some people are getting wealthy off others misfortune.
There is nothing manufactured, there is no product, just a way for some to advance over some poor slob trying to retire someday.
Day traders are killing this country!!! There is no value added to the economy.
They really should put wall street in Vegas or at least Atlantic City so it can be run by the proper people. ( Mafia)

 

[flyersfan31]

Sorry, I don't drink beer, what I'm saying is the capital needed for re-investment in this country and to keep our lifestyle where it has been for the last 50 years we will wither away.

Capital takes many forms. Cash paid to workers here will be reinvested here, one way or another. Same with the dividends/cap gains paid to investors in the auto company

If you don't believe me on this come to Mich. and see the 2 of every 10 out of work, look at the thousands ,yes THOUSANDS of empty commercial buildings, and tens of thousands of forclosed houses sitting empty.
Most of us that fly are a little on the higher side of the scale,so you might not notice, but on the average as a country,we're sliding downward.
Quite a Saab story eh?

Next stop spin zone

Yeah, I don't want to get this thrown in SZ, but suffice it to say that Michigan's tax policy isn't exactly pro-business and investment. Moreover, is the decline of the American car industry in Michigan the fault of people not buying the cars, or the people designing cars people don't want at prices they don't want to pay?

 

[Ghery]

Ps. Even though the MB isn't my daily driver, it still makes me smile to drive it - it's still a tight and solid car. It just costs an arm and a leg to service. If the new ones have the same problems I wouldn't buy another one. I'd buy another BMW in a heartbeat though, absolutely love that car. The MB is 9 years old and has about 88K miles on it.

88K? By the time my wife's 2006 Jeep Commander Limited is 9 years old it will have about 180K on the clock. We average 20,000 miles a year on whatever she is driving. And it replaced a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee that had over 180,000 miles on it. At just over 10 years, my 1999 Jeep Wrangler has about 152,000 miles on it. And in that time the only thing that has gone wrong was the fuel pump quit on me. Oh, and the exhaust manifold broke a year ago, but about 9 years after many lost theirs. Evidently a weak spot in the 1999 year.

Now, if you want to talk about Japanese "quality"... I had a 1974 Subaru that I bought new in college. 12 month, 12,000 mile warranty. At 12,3xx miles the rectifier in the alternator failed. There's a quality engineer at Fuji Heavy Industries who knew his job. That car would blow the head gaskets every 50,000 miles or less. Replacing them meant tearing the engine down and rebuilding it as it was an aluminum block with steel sleeves in the cylinders. Sitting on crush washers. Which had to be replaced anytime the heads were pulled. It was ready for its third engine rebuild when I sold it. To a former Subaru mechanic who should have known better. No sympathy.

I'll stick with my Jeeps. They run.

 

[flyersfan31]

88K? By the time my wife's 2006 Jeep Commander Limited is 9 years old it will have about 180K on the clock. We average 20,000 miles a year on whatever she is driving. And it replaced a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee that had over 180,000 miles on it. At just over 10 years, my 1999 Jeep Wrangler has about 152,000 miles on it. And in that time the only thing that has gone wrong was the fuel pump quit on me. Oh, and the exhaust manifold broke a year ago, but about 9 years after many lost theirs. Evidently a weak spot in the 1999 year.

Now, if you want to talk about Japanese "quality"... I had a 1974 Subaru that I bought new in college. 12 month, 12,000 mile warranty. At 12,3xx miles the rectifier in the alternator failed. There's a quality engineer at Fuji Heavy Industries who knew his job. That car would blow the head gaskets every 50,000 miles or less. Replacing them meant tearing the engine down and rebuilding it as it was an aluminum block with steel sleeves in the cylinders. Sitting on crush washers. Which had to be replaced anytime the heads were pulled. It was ready for its third engine rebuild when I sold it. To a former Subaru mechanic who should have known better. No sympathy.

I'll stick with my Jeeps. They run.

A 74 Subaru???? I didn't even know they were importing in 74!!!!! Do you have a picture?? I remember the early 70's Honda CVCC civics - little egg crates. Later Subes have good reps for running forever. They might get a little rusty, but they run....

 

[flyersfan31]

Oh, I found a picture -- man I had completely forgotten what they looked like. Ugly comes immediately to mind!!!!

http://www.adclassix.com/a4/74subaruglcoupe.html

 

[PilotAlan]

By the way, your 2004 XJ8 isn't much of a Jaguar. That was built off of the DEW98AL platform (Ford), which is a slightly modified variant of the DEW98 platform used in the Lincoln LS and Jaguar S-type. Most of what you've got there that you're satisfied with qualtiy wise is a good ol' American car. Have you driven a Ford lately? Yes, yes you have.

I certainly know that Jag was owned by Ford, and the X-Type and S-Type used modified Ford platforms.

The XJ was a clean-sheet design.
The AJ-V8 engine was also a clean-sheet Jag design, all Jag and Rover versions of the engine are built in Wales.
A smaller version of the engine used by Lincoln and the Thunderbird is made in Lima, Ohio. No Ohio engines are using in Jags, and no Wales engines are used in Fords.
The engines are the same basic design, but they are not the same and they are built in different factories with different workforces, and with different economics at play.

This reinforces my point is that that components in high-end Ford (and GM) cars are not the same as the same stuff they put in lower end cars.
Especially in GM's case.

BTW, the transmission is a 6-speed ZF tranny, not Ford.

 

[wabower]

Every time a company advertises that their latest and greatest is a "clean sheet design" that happens to look just like their old ones, I sometimes wonder if they could see just enough of the outlines of the old design underneath to trace it onto the clean sheet.

Do they have a Jag bus in Denver?

I certainly know that Jag was owned by Ford, and the X-Type and S-Type used modified Ford platforms.

The XJ was a clean-sheet design.
The AJ-V8 engine was also a clean-sheet Jag design, all Jag and Rover versions of the engine are built in Wales.
A smaller version of the engine used by Lincoln and the Thunderbird is made in Lima, Ohio. No Ohio engines are using in Jags, and no Wales engines are used in Fords.
The engines are the same basic design, but they are not the same and they are built in different factories with different workforces, and with different economics at play.

This reinforces my point is that that components in high-end Ford (and GM) cars are not the same as the same stuff they put in lower end cars.
Especially in GM's case.

BTW, the transmission is a 6-speed ZF tranny, not Ford.

 

[kevin47881]

I understand what you're saying, but if you look close on my post it was buy American to keep the "Profits" here. That was the important part.
If everybody want's to work for and depend on a foreign company, we will all spiral down to living a lifestyle of the world average---- no thanks for me

Well, I work for one of those "foreign" companies so allow me a moment to opine. We make our engines here, we buy our steel here, we roll our sheet metal here and we assemble here. We source parts from local vendors. Also, our profits stay here. We are also paid a handsome bonus based upon U.S. profits when there are profits (ain't no profit sharing this year ).

The "mother ship" makes its money by selling us some assembly parts and most replacement parts. We also act as a distributor for Japanese produced products which provides a profit to both sides of the big pond.

We directly and indirectly employ many thousands of people across the country and North America. Heck, our U.S. plants alone employ over 10,000. Add in dealer personnel, corporate and regional staff (that's me), vendors, etc and the number is large. Is it as large as the Detroit 3? Maybe not but large just the same.

I'm not trying to change your opinion or beliefs but rather just want to point things out from another perspective.

 

[kevin47881]

Oh, I found a picture -- man I had completely forgotten what they looked like. Ugly comes immediately to mind!!!!

http://www.adclassix.com/a4/74subaruglcoupe.html

Reminds me of an old AMC.

 

[Ted]

I certainly know that Jag was owned by Ford, and the X-Type and S-Type used modified Ford platforms.

The XJ was a clean-sheet design.

It's no more a clean-sheet design than the X-type or S-type was.

The AJ-V8 engine was also a clean-sheet Jag design, all Jag and Rover versions of the engine are built in Wales.

That's what they keep saying, yes, but if you put it next to a Ford 32-valve 4.6L V8 (Lincoln Mk VIII motor, which came first) the two look surprisingly similar.

A smaller version of the engine used by Lincoln and the Thunderbird is made in Lima, Ohio. No Ohio engines are using in Jags, and no Wales engines are used in Fords.

Correct.

The engines are the same basic design, but they are not the same and they are built in different factories with different workforces, and with different economics at play.

There are minor differences and they are built in different factories, yes. This, if anything, could be considered a negative since they could consolidate to one factory. Of course then you'd have to ship the engines to whichever other country. They are not that different.

This reinforces my point is that that components in high-end Ford (and GM) cars are not the same as the same stuff they put in lower end cars.
Especially in GM's case.

In general the low-end stuff is just as good. May be slightly older tech, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm happy to let those who can afford to buy a new $70k car every few years prove out reliability on components for me before I buy them.

BTW, the transmission is a 6-speed ZF tranny, not Ford.

I never said it was a Ford tranny. That said, I'd rather have a Ford tranny. I've not worked with the 6-speeds much, but we had several 5HP30s die on us with under 100k. The 4HP22 and 4HP24 were pretty good units, but a Ford 4R70 is much better.

 

[woodstock]

I keep cars an average of a decade and a half. Don't rack up huge miles though, since I live close to the University. I don't think I've ever had to fix anything but wear items on any of the Nip cars.

When I bought my Nissan truck I looked at the Ford equivalent (at the time it was the Ranger, I believe). I didn't buy one because I couldn't get anyone to actually talk to me. A few years later I met someone who bought a new Ranger about the same time as I bought my Nissan. The Ranger had suffered a litany of defects that cost thousands of dollars to fix. My Nissan needed gas and oil. Never needed much more than that, until my neighbor's tree fell on it.

I tend to keep mine roughly 6-7 years.

 

[el con]

Use coffee as an example, then. You only drink Kona from Hawaii, right? None of that Columbian stuff.

Sorry Grant, I don't drink coffee either,or smoke cigarettes (or anything else)

 

[el con]

Capital takes many forms. Cash paid to workers here will be reinvested here, one way or another. Same with the dividends/cap gains paid to investors in the auto company



Yeah, I don't want to get this thrown in SZ, but suffice it to say that Michigan's tax policy isn't exactly pro-business and investment. Moreover, is the decline of the American car industry in Michigan the fault of people not buying the cars, or the people designing cars people don't want at prices they don't want to pay?

Hey, I'm not blaming foreign countries, or companies for this. This is the greed ,stupidity of our government,ourselves, and maybe just the natural progression of a society not unlike all those in the past that come to power, rot from the inside out, then fade till another takes it's place. It may just be history unfolding before our eye's. My first 58 years were pretty darn nice, I don't think the next 58 or fraction there of will be so pleasant.
My company represents many product's from around the world, not because I want to, it's because we don't even make these products hare anymore. I prefer to represent American, but have done as we all have and maybe accepted the inevitable(?),but I don't have to like it.
And really , I know of no foreign company that is here in this country that is doing it to create jobs for us. The only thing a company is formed for is to make money,and in their case I'm sure send the excess profit home.
I applaude success of anyone, any company, anywhere in the world, I am just dissapointed in our failure to respond to what's happening. We have lost our competitve edge, and we will suffer for all we have let slip through our fingers
By the way Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

 

[Ted]

And really , I know of no foreign company that is here in this country that is doing it to create jobs for us. The only thing a company is formed for is to make money,and in their case I'm sure send the excess profit home.

Brad, I know that you do your best to keep jobs in America as much as you can in your business, and it's a consideration for me in my purchases and business dealings as well. Unfortunately, most of the American business owners I've observed are interested in cutting costs and making the most profit (i.e. GM/Ford/Chrysler producing vehicles in Mexico, Canada, etc.). In reality that's what the foreign manufacturers are doing when they bring plants here, too. To say that the American companies are here to create jobs for us is, unfortunately, not the case these days.

 

[Everskyward]

To say that the American companies are here to create jobs for us is, unfortunately, not the case these days.

Exactly. To say that any company, US or foreign, exists to create jobs for us is backward. Companies are not charities. Jobs are created because companies need labor.

 

[Trapper John]

Exactly. To say that any company, US or foreign, exists to create jobs for us is backward. Companies are not charities. Jobs are created because companies need labor.

And only when there are no other alternatives...

Trapper John

 

[Ted]

Exactly. To say that any company, US or foreign, exists to create jobs for us is backward. Companies are not charities. Jobs are created because companies need labor.

And even charities are still businesses. They still have bills to pay and if they don't have sufficient money, those bills won't get paid and services will have to be reduced. The smart charities realize this and they're still around and doing good works, just not as many as they were. The ones that try to do things without having the money for it have been forced to shut down.

 

[Ted]

And only when there are no other alternatives...

Like your Ford?

 

[Trapper John]

Like your Ford?

Or pretty much any other automaker...

We had a Fiero, which was heralded as a great advance, with lots of automation in the assembly. It was the biggest POS ever.


Trapper John

 

[woodstock]

I saw the robots in the BMW factory. Fascinating and a little scary. I think the person who wrote "The Terminator" must have visited a car factory because it kind of reminded me of that. The painting robots especially seemed alive. Perfectly synchronized.

 

[Ghery]

A 74 Subaru???? I didn't even know they were importing in 74!!!!! Do you have a picture?? I remember the early 70's Honda CVCC civics - little egg crates. Later Subes have good reps for running forever. They might get a little rusty, but they run....

Oh, I found a picture -- man I had completely forgotten what they looked like. Ugly comes immediately to mind!!!!

http://www.adclassix.com/a4/74subaruglcoupe.html

Subaru first imported in 1969. It was a 3 cylinder piece of junk. I remember the final words in the Consumer Reports review, "It was a pleasure to get out, slam the door and walk away!". Nothing more until they got serious with a "real" car in 1973. The head gasket problem was endemic and I understand they finally figured out how to build the engine properly with the 1976 model.

I'll have to dig through my old slides and see if I have a picture of ours. Didn't have the stripes in that B&W picture. Ours was bright orange. 2 door Subaru DL.

 

[wabower]

Those that built the motors for the 93-94 models needed to enroll in "remedial robotics 101" at JUCO. They were awful.

I saw the robots in the BMW factory. Fascinating and a little scary. I think the person who wrote "The Terminator" must have visited a car factory because it kind of reminded me of that. The painting robots especially seemed alive. Perfectly synchronized.

 

[el con]

Exactly. To say that any company, US or foreign, exists to create jobs for us is backward. Companies are not charities. Jobs are created because companies need labor.

Companies are created to make money.
Jobs are created because the guy who started the company wants to make more money and he can't do it by himself.
Our system is failing because we are selling our companies out to foreign investors, who now remove the excess profit out of our system and put it into there system. Yes some jobs are created.
We also do it by buying more imported goods than we ship out.
If it was a balanced trade system we would'nt be in the pickle that we're in now.

 

[Everskyward]

Jobs are created because the guy who started the company wants to make more money and he can't do it by himself.

That goes for foreign guys too.

Our system is failing because we are selling our companies out to foreign investors, who now remove the excess profit out of our system and put it into there system. Yes some jobs are created.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having foreign investors, because, yes, jobs are created and there is a flow of commerce back and forth. I believe that the global economy is here to stay so we need to adapt, and that doesn't mean by being overly protectionist.