There is still nothing in evidence that says it is. So far the official sources of info say 'no explosives residue found' so far, and that was this morning.
Russian Airbus down
- Thread starter Let'sgoflying!
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There is still nothing in evidence that says it is. So far the official sources of info say 'no explosives residue found' so far, and that was this morning.
FastEddieB
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Fast Eddie B
Occam took me in a different direction.
The vast majority of airplane accidents are NOT caused by bombs or missles, therefore...
Kinda like hearing hoofbeats and thinking horses, not zebras.
But I'll admit I was wrong in my assumptions - assuming this does pan out.
But talk about fertile ground for conspiracy theorists!
We're talking Russia, not America, there is no 'veil of invulnerability' because they already have the issues at home. All this would do is to strengthen resolve if it was a bomb.
Lindberg
Final Approach
True for the vast majority of accidents. But the vast majority of airplane accidents do not happen in the middle east on carriers operated by countries actively bombing terrorists. Statistics is all about choosing the right sample.
When you add the tail strike repair, the statistical analysis changes.
Fearless Tower
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Check the latest on CNN.
For both US and European Intel to be already openly stating that it was likely a bomb, means they probably have something.
Again, both parties stand to gain propaganda benefit from saying this as they all have issues with ISIS. If they are couching the information with 'may' and 'could', it is only of propaganda value. When someone comes out and actually says, "There is xxx explosive residue that has been found", then I will believe it. The Europeans were reporting WMDs without fact as well, and the same corporations that own our media own theirs. That's the problem when the entire global main stream media is 90% owned by less than a dozen multinational corporations, most of them involved in the military industrial complex.
NoHeat
Final Approach
yup....see post #47.
Looking for the first post in this thread to propose a bomb?
#36 came before #47. With a supporting argument.
Not that I care, really.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
Try to remember the 747 which blew up near Long Island. The press in a veritable frenzy reporting everything from a ground to air to a bomb , on and on. Finally after weeks of total crap including kennedys ex press secretary, it was found that there was absolutely no trace of any Bomb going off or damage resulting from a navy rocket or any other such hair brained idea. It was correctly traced to a center fuel tank. Might be is a long way from is for sure but it gives many politicians a chance to mouth off in an election cycle. Mrs. Lindsey Graham, a REMF has spouted off a lot about it without a grain of sense.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
By the way your wrong. Algazeera has its own people in the field, one or two of which were recently released from a prison in Egypt for simply reporting facts.
Lindberg
Final Approach
That plane likely has tens of thousands of cycles in the last 15 years.
ISIS took credit before the black boxes were even recovered. If they weren't actually responsible, they couldn't know that the actual cause wouldn't be immediately discovered. Why risk the credibility hit to take credit for an accident? Have they done that before?
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
Have they taken unsubstantiated credit before? Yes. Are they credible in any respect? No. They risk nothing as they have nothing to lose.
ISIS, or terrorist groups in general? ISIS I don't know as they are quite recent, but terrorists in general, oh yes, all the time, there's sometime groups competing for the claim. Whether true or not doesn't affect their recruiting effort.
I say flutter from a weakened Horizontal Stabilizer brought it down... Notice how the they have NOT shown any pics of the stab or Elevators, but there are numerous pictures of investigators staring at the section of the tail wreckage....
The 321 has a history of a design weakness and Airbus Industries has replaces several entire components for various airlines around the world based on pilot complaints of fuselage vibration.
Also notice the biggest champion of the bomb theory is Airbus Industries themselves, it is the old magicians trick of pointing over there to draw attention away for the obvious...
News reports are saying the bomb was placed close to fuel lines so the fire /thermal damage would hide explosive residue but the NTSB had NO problem determining the charred wreckage of TWA 800 showed NO sign of residue so that concept has serious flaws..
Finally,, look closely at the tail section.. There is NO sign of fire /thermal damage or even burnt paint anywhere on it, so if there was explosive residue left from a bomb, it would be scattered all over that tail section, and would have been detected by now.. IMHO.
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Dav8or
Final Approach
Yeah, I'm not buying the bomb theory at all. In the past, a bomb on board has always been really easy to tell from the wreckage and declared positively right away. They also always seem to know right away who was carrying the bomb, or how it got there.
Where is the APU located on the 321? If it's in the tail section, the tail separating might cause fuel to disperse and ignite and may account for the "heat bloom" or whatever they called it from the satellite observation.
Where is the APU located on the 321? If it's in the tail section, the tail separating might cause fuel to disperse and ignite and may account for the "heat bloom" or whatever they called it from the satellite observation.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
Lest we forget the Airbus that had its tail fall off over queens n.y. When the f.o. " introduced too much rudder", killing somewhere near the same amount of people.
Dav8or
Final Approach
I don't think anybody has forgotten that. I think lots of people are thinking about that, including those guys standing in the photo looking at the tail section.
Silvaire
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If ISIS is blowing up Russians does that mean ISIS is on our side? In Rambo II and Red Dawn the Russians were the enemy that still so?
In the Red Dawn 2012 remake they changed them to Koreans. They had originally changed them to Chinese but made them Koreans so that they would have access to the Chinese box office
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3393RP
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Russia confirms a bomb brought down the aircraft...
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/1...-brought-down-plane-over-sinai/?intcmp=hplnws
The source says the bomb was the equivalent of "Less than a kilogram" of TNT.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/1...-brought-down-plane-over-sinai/?intcmp=hplnws
The source says the bomb was the equivalent of "Less than a kilogram" of TNT.
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"B Isvestia ne pravda, y b Prada ne isvestia."
Sure....
Once the wreckage was transported to a "secure" location , they magically found traces of explosive residue....
..Oh , wait..... Traces were not explained in that report..
....
My guess is they hold alot of ownership in Airbus Industries and don't want bad publicity to hurt their investment....
Or , they will say you guys blowing up our plane makes us even in Russia shooting down the plane over the Ukraine.....
So what with the 400+ dead passengers....
They are just numbers on a political scoreboard...
The tell will be in what happens to the CEO of the airline. Putin tends to hold senior management to task for these kinds of failures.
SkyDog58
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Canis Non Grata
So, the theory is that the fact the airplane came apart in flight over the Sinai very shortly after Russia started bombing Syria is just a very convenient coincidence and that the real cause was actually several years earlier. Well, I guess it is a good thing that it happened where it did and when it did. If it had happened before the bombings and had happened in Russia, they would have had to blame the Ukrainians, I guess. But if it happened before the annexation of Crimea, then they would have had to find yet another boogie man, right?
Now, I am not saying that damage to an aircraft cannot cause problems years later because I know that it can. However, I also know that terrorists bring down aircraft as well and that the timing, location and other things about this crash make it more likely to be a bomb than structural failure. But, conspiracy theorists will do what conspiracy theorists do which often is to ignore facts and logic.
Now, I am not saying that damage to an aircraft cannot cause problems years later because I know that it can. However, I also know that terrorists bring down aircraft as well and that the timing, location and other things about this crash make it more likely to be a bomb than structural failure. But, conspiracy theorists will do what conspiracy theorists do which often is to ignore facts and logic.
Matthew
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...ast-idUSKCN0T60PS20151117#D1ylYLYB2jQ0Ull2.97
Will be interesting to see where Russia takes this.
Dav8or
Final Approach
Russia wants it to be a bomb. Airbus wants it to be a bomb. What do the Egyptians say about it, or are they just pressured to keep their mouths shut? Were there any Ukrainian investigators as there were Ukrainians onboard?
Phoenix
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Wait, what? The Airbus bomb story is fake, but the Paris theatre shootings are real? More likely the other way round. If the Airbus bombing was fake an intact passport would've been found before the last piece of plane hit the ground.
Dav8or
Final Approach
Unless they put boots on the ground and invade the ISIS territories, it will go nowhere. Nobody outside of Syria seems willing to fight these guys face to face. Push button, remote control war is popular back home and looks cool on TV, but it doesn't really work and it never has.
genna
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Ok, I have to chime in.
Please don't do it again. This is just painful to read on so many levels.
The Soviet era actual joke (or quote) is: 'В "Правде" нет известий, а в "Известиях" нет правды.'
Правдa(The Truth) and Известия(The News) were leading Soviet newspapers.
Translated: "There are no news in Pravda(the Truth in Russian), and there is no truth in Izvestiya (the News)
Transcribed with Latin alphabet: "V Pravde net izvestiy, ah v Izvestiyah net pravdy"
What you wrote is just terribly transcribed thing that is painful to read.
Yeah, I don't have Cyrillic typing. And my Russian skills are, ehem, "atrophied." Thanks.
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genna
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I don't have Cyrillic typing either. Wouldn't help much anyway, all the keys are in the "wrong" places. I found using this: http://translit.ru/ is best way to type Cyrillic with US keyboard
Phoenix
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The Russians couldn't win in Afghanistan either.
...
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!
genna
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Not very likely. Now, they will definitely care less about civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean that they can inflict any real defeat to an entrenched force so far away.
They are not going to be sending invasion army. And more bombing is not really going to do much.
Anthony
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Putin is a different animal. He is a man of action, not one that just "leads a discussion" and thinks it is a responsive action.
genna
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Oh, sure. It's not so much that I think he'd be afraid. It's that logistically, it's pretty much a no-go. Russians do not have very effective capability to fight remote wars. They are just not setup for that.
Not to mention that this is a civil war and there are other foreign powers involved. It's just too much of a mess to send troops to. And Russians still remember the brutality of Afghanistan campaign.
Anthony
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I don't think it will be a remote war. I think it will be covert ops to take out people they target. They often send the body parts back one at a time to the next in line.