Rules for using MOGAS?

Pinecone said:
How to you ground something that is non-conductive?????
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Not easily, because most plastics are great insulators, which is why they can build up a such a good static charge. This is one reason why every solvent safety can in the chem lab is made of metal. Solvent fires are not fun.
 
chemgeek said:
Not easily, because most plastics are great insulators, which is why they can build up a such a good static charge. This is one reason why every solvent safety can in the chem lab is made of metal. Solvent fires are not fun.
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True, but when the charge on the plastic gets high enough current will flow to a point of lower potential and it will take the path of least resistance. If that path is air, you get a spark (often followed by a loud boom). Give the charge a wire to flow through and it won’t go through the air. No spark, no boom.
 
pfarber said:
All this fear of ethanol

Does anyone realize that the FAA ran a Cessna for 10 years with 100% ethanol and the only issue was needing to rejet thr carb?

The engine was super clean (no lead or varnish) and made more power than avgas.

10 years, nota single problem. Yes somehow ethanol is bad
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And burned a helluva lot more fuel, at a much higher price/gallon than avgas.
On top of that, add to it the fact that the fuel system had to be modified to handle alcohol without deterioration, and I'd wager that cold starts were troublesome at times.
 
Daleandee said:
Static electricity is not well understood.
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
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Years ago I watched a guy refilling an airport fuel truck from a storage tank. He's standing on top of the tanker and the fuel is free flowing and there was a thunderstorm bearing down on the airport. About the only thing he could have done better would be to be smoking.
 
wanttaja said:
Every load you get, check to make sure it doesn't have ethanol in it. Don't go by the pump label. Testing is quick and easy.
You don't need a big sample, the important thing is the relative level of the water to the fuel after shaking things up. I bought a couple of small test tubes from Amazon, came with rubber stoppers. I have the line pre-drawn on the tube....fill with water to the line, add fuel, stopper it, and shake. Results are pretty fast.
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Huckster79 said:
I do similar, when I use mogas- but I use water based food color. I put a bit of gas in a 20oz pop bottle, put some food color in and give it a shake. If there’s ethanol in it - the gas will color, if the food color is in beads then it’s good.
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Tried it both ways. Works as advertised :cool:

Any reason not to use a gats jar to strain out the water and reuse the gas?
 
chemgeek said:
Not easily, because most plastics are great insulators, which is why they can build up a such a good static charge. This is one reason why every solvent safety can in the chem lab is made of metal. Solvent fires are not fun.
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Screenshot 2022-11-04 195539.jpg

Acetone comes in a box with a plastic bag in it now- like a box of cheap wine. It even has a pouring spigot like a tap.

Having noted new solvent packaging, we had an electrical noise issue in a new SFC (supercritical chromatography) product earlier this year when we ran ethyl acetate, which still comes in metal cans. It was traced to static build-up and discharge across some plastic parts which have been replaced with metal. I suppose the alcohols more commonly used for SFC could drain the static as we never saw an issue until we ran ethyl acetate through it.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Not sure but I think alcohol adds octane. If you filter it out it changes things.
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Not only that but if I take a fuel sample out of the sump, it don't go back in the plane. I have a container for fuel samples to be put in. Sometimes we use it in the mower ...
 
Daleandee said:
Not only that but if I take a fuel sample out of the sump, it don't go back in the plane. I have a container for fuel samples to be put in. Sometimes we use it in the mower ...
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tgats a great idea! I’m going to steal it. I buy some at the end of each season for any equipment that’s going into storage but may as well do as you do along the way…. Or dump it in my 59 dodge pickup
 
VP Racing jug pireps.
The hose is too short. The hose can kink at the end where it goes into the tank. It takes a little finagling to get everything just right so that when I tip the jug over, not much gas spills onto the wing.

So, I ordered a hose with a built in valve. Next step is to bodge in a longer length of hose and put an elbow at the end.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CS88NSI/
 

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GeorgeC said:
VP Racing jug pireps.
The hose is too short. The hose can kink at the end where it goes into the tank. It takes a little finagling to get everything just right so that when I tip the jug over, not much gas spills onto the wing.

So, I ordered a hose with a built in valve. Next step is to bodge in a longer length of hose and put an elbow at the end.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CS88NSI/

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Can't use it if it spills even a drop going into the tank opening...change something like you did.
I am able to stick the flexible spout into the tank opening right before any fuel gets to the end of the spout as I tip over the jug. Flexible spout gives me enough leadway.
Be sure to have the vent closed as you tip it over as it delays the flow of gas a little. Then when it is in and laying on it's side open the vent and it really picks up steam and empty's pretty fast while laying on your wing and your doing nothing with your back once you get it up there. Those vents are a amazing thing in these jugs, they are placed just right, don't leak a drop even when submerged in fuel and are open providing venting. Not all jugs will exhibit those quality's and work.
I only do this when I know it will hold over 6 gallons, I do not "fill" my fuel tanks with these jugs. Would be too easy to over fill it, imo.
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GeorgeC said:
Any reason not to use a gats jar to strain out the water and reuse the gas?
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You might want to test your GATS jar before doing that. I have one I bought when I was renting planes 8-10 years ago. I recently found it again and was going to show my buddy how it works. Poured some gas through the screen…. Then added some water and poured out… everything!! The water went right through the screen. I’m pretty sure it worked as advertised when I bought it, but apparently they don’t work forever.
 
Daleandee said:
Not only that but if I take a fuel sample out of the sump, it don't go back in the plane. I have a container for fuel samples to be put in. Sometimes we use it in the mower ...
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I’ve never understood this. If the sample is clean coming out, and your sample cup itself is clean, then why wouldn’t you feel safe pouring it right back in the tank?
 
RussR said:
I’ve never understood this. If the sample is clean coming out, and your sample cup itself is clean, then why wouldn’t you feel safe pouring it right back in the tank?
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Just a habit I use for safety.

I use the same fuel tester to sump my gascolator as I use to check all Mogas for ethanol and that requires adding water to the sample. Those samples with water should never be added back to the tank.

So in order to prevent making an error I just put all samples in a container that the mower can burn.

iu
 
GeorgeC said:
The hose can kink at the end where it goes into the tank.
...
Next step is to bodge in a longer length of hose and put an elbow at the end.
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Ended up not needing a longer hose. I did put a 3/4" elbow in the end and sandwiched in a brass faucet screen.
 

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GeorgeC said:
Ended up not needing a longer hose. I did put a 3/4" elbow in the end and sandwiched in a brass faucet screen.
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That'll work, but keep in mind it will slow the flow of fuel somewhat if you are in hurry. Especially if you need to use the restroom toward the end of your re-fueling...if you know what I mean? lol
My setup sticks down inside the tank 4-6" and so the fuel is not free falling after it is half full or so. Less chance of static that way.
 
wilkersk said:
The VP racing jugs work great. ... 1 caution: be careful threading those danged spouts into the caps. I put a touch of Fuel Lube on the threads of the spout and carefully tighten them just snug, not over-tight.
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I bought an extra cap so I can mount the spout permanently instead of dorking around with the threaded plugs.

Also added a proper threaded coupler:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0079JXSDG/
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I replaced it with a brass valve, which has been working well for the last year.
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Now I'm tempted to bore out the vent...

occamsracers.com

DIY Gas Can Mods and Speed Test

At our last race we had two different fuel jugs, VP and Hunsaker. Both jugs hold about 5.5 gallons. The Hunsakers have unleaded fuel nozzles and pour a lot slower, but they have a convenient ventin…
occamsracers.com occamsracers.com
 
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Daleandee said:
Static electricity is not well understood. This is an older video but very good:

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I enjoy those old fashioned educational films like that. Stuffy for sure, but I for some reason feel like the folks doing them were just a bit smarter...and I like how everything is done so formally, right down to the summary at the end...." you have seen..."
Pinecone said:
How to you ground something that is non-conductive?????
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like halfast and others responded..... but also, in that old video they addressed that question regarding glass containers. I feel like it was sometime after the halfway mark....
 
Shepherd said:
My PA-17 has the mogas STC. The previous owner ran almost exclusively on it.
Unfortunately, mogas has NEVER been available in my area, so I have never used it.
Never been available, that is, until this week. The station down the street now has it.
I have qty 3, 5 gallon, VP Racing containers. I also have a hand pump and an electric fuel pump that I could use to fill the plane.
Any "rules" for using mogas?
Any wisdom to impart?
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Don't pout using a funnel. Siphon hose has less of a chance of developing static but it's still possible if not grounded. Also some airports forbid outside fuel brought in
 
I forget the name but there is an outfit in Utah that sells 20 gallon jugs for gasoline. They also have pumps that work on batteries and another tha works with 12v/110v with a power block. The 12 volt works great, about 6 gal or more per minute. The jugs are stacakable and we just put 3 of them on a moving dolly.

www.wurxcontainers.com

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The WURX Providence Peak container is the perfect solution for OHV, RV, boat, and generator reserve fuel needs. This container’s top port design accommodates pump systems for convenient fuel transfer.
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I understand the static issue and dangers, but how have I survived 50+ years of pouring gas from a plastic can into a tractor's plastic tank with no grounding and no explosions?

When I had my Kolb I attached a long [enough] hose to the can with a brass ball valve on the discharge end. Set the can on the ground and lightly pressurized it with a low pressure foot pump (the kind made for air mattresses). Worked beautifully.
 
Dana said:
I understand the static issue and dangers, but how have I survived 50+ years of pouring gas from a plastic can into a tractor's plastic tank with no grounding and no explosions?
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Don't all those plastics have enough conductivity (by design) to reduce the risk of static sparks?
 
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