Retirement: inside or outside the USA?

[Matthew]

If that's dealbreaker, then yes, the US might be one of the only places in the world where that currently stands. I am not so confident that it stands into the future as various states have been chipping away at those rights. I think that in time, the right will be essentially meaningless compared to most other first-world countries. But that's for another discussion.


I would argue that there are plenty of other places in the world where those conditions are met or exceeded.

Let's take the electrical grid, for example. In the last 50-60 years there have been major blackouts that covered vast portions of the US. In California, parts of the grid had to be shut down last year either to prevent or because of the fires. Puerto Rico is a US possession - their grid hasn't recovered from the hurricane. Heck even locally there are issues: I've clocked an average of a full day of downtime per year at my house (major metro) due to storms and lack of line maintenance.

For water, we can look to Flint. Other infrastructure? I've had 6-10 hour internet outages (and I put 25-50% packet loss into that category) the past couple of days, and average 1-3 days a year of total crap service. In my metro, the roads/highway system is a mixed bag and far below the potential - likewise rail service.

And so forth. Nothing on your list cannot be provided by a NON-CORRUPT socialist country - and it's the promise that's been made in communist countries (though generally unmet).

The US certainly has the ability to provide all those conditions. Many places either don't or limit them substantially.

But as you said, it depends on what you value. I am glad to be in the US, but I've also seen it's flaws. Whether those flaws affect my retirement home is yet to be answered - certainly I've already decided that there are a number of states here in the US where I will not retire.

Other than gun control laws and the State and Federal government interactions on those issues, I think that a lot of the rest of those infrastructure problems are local or State responsibilities. Quality of life issues in the US do depend on where you live. I’m not sure the best way to compare apples to apples when comparing QOL and infrastructure between the US and other countries.

 

[denverpilot]

Oh, and I didn’t even mention public schools (with all their faults), ... MHO

You probably won’t need that one in retirement.

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

Colleague of mine - ex-mil and now works for the state of MN - who has some decent bennies, is looking at Guatemala or Ecuador.

I have a feeling I'll be doing the same. But who the heck knows where we will be in the next 30 years?

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

I've had the chance to work with a number of people from all over the world. When I get a chance I usually ask them something like, "What's the biggest difference you noticed?" Most of the time the answer is, "Your grocery stores are huge!"

One guy said, "You have no American restaurants." I said, "Huh?" He stood and turned 360 deg pointing, "You have Mexican, Chinese, Korean, Indian, more Mexican, another Chinese, but no American."

There are no German restaurants in Germany (according to me). Lots of Italian and (where I live) Turkish. Very few German.

 

[Dave Theisen]

There are no German restaurants in Germany (according to me). Lots of Italian and (where I live) Turkish. Very few German.

I come from mostly German heritage. So I was excited when I started traveling to Germany for work, but disappointed so far that I haven’t found any of the dishes my grandmother used to make when I was a kid.

 

[Lance F]

Germany? No German restaurants ? You guys didn’t try very hard or only stayed in big city tourist areas. There are family owned restaurants serving traditional German fare in virtually every German village I’ve ever been in. And I’ve been in a lot of them. And it’s delicious.
But no interest in retiring there

 

[wsuffa]

Other than gun control laws and the State and Federal government interactions on those issues, I think that a lot of the rest of those infrastructure problems are local or State responsibilities. Quality of life issues in the US do depend on where you live. I’m not sure the best way to compare apples to apples when comparing QOL and infrastructure between the US and other countries.

Oh, yes, states have a big part in it, but so much funding comes from the Feds that it has become a Federal issue, too. That's for the government-run infrastructure, as well as education, health care, and other services. I am reminded of the 4 minute piece of video that went viral from the HBO series Newsroom a couple of years ago.

We are in agreement that it's really hard to compare QOL and infrastructure on a country-by-country basis - you really need to look at the states.

Cato Institute did a ranking of "freedom" in the 50 states. While one may or may not agree with Cato's overall ranking, they also broke out many of the components of the ranking. I suppose that's a place to start when comparing QOL between a given state and other countries. Or not.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Germany? No German restaurants ? You guys didn’t try very hard or only stayed in big city tourist areas. There are family owned restaurants serving traditional German fare in virtually every German village I’ve ever been in. And I’ve been in a lot of them. And it’s delicious.
But no interest in retiring there

Well, I live in Germany soooo.....just sayin.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Germany? No German restaurants ? You guys didn’t try very hard or only stayed in big city tourist areas. There are family owned restaurants serving traditional German fare in virtually every German village I’ve ever been in. And I’ve been in a lot of them. And it’s delicious.
But no interest in retiring there

Ok, let me qualify my statement. There are plenty of places for me to get wurst (sausage). Currywurst, bratwurst, etc. We have places to get Kassler brötchen too. But finding a place to get some traditional hackbraten with knödel is hard to find. Want some saumagen? Don’t know where to point you to besides my company cafeteria.

But I can quickly find Thai, Chinese, Pizza, Döner, Turkish kebabs, Italian or many other things.

 

[Dave Theisen]

Well, I live in Germany soooo.....just sayin.

Whereabouts? We usually bounce around to a few places each trip over.

 

[Fallsrider]

Our daughter is expecting our first grandchild in May, they live about 30 minutes from us in a house her husband inherited on some family land, so they aren't moving! We are looking to downsize anyway, so we are looking near them. My wife isn't able to drive, except on her good days and it would be nice to be a few minutes away from the baby!!

Priorities!

 

[weilke]

Ok, let me qualify my statement. There are plenty of places for me to get wurst (sausage). Currywurst, bratwurst, etc. We have places to get Kassler brötchen too. But finding a place to get some traditional hackbraten with knödel is hard to find. Want some saumagen? Don’t know where to point you to besides my company cafeteria.

Those are 'german american' items that you would only find in a german restaurant in the US (the equivalent of 'General Tsos Chicken').

There are indeed very few traditional german restaurants left. That's mainly a result of labor law and the labor market. Even places that may still have a traditional 'gasthaus' style marquee are often run by greek, serbian and lately syrian proprietors.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Those are 'german american' items that you would only find in a german restaurant in the US (the equivalent of 'General Tsos Chicken').

There are indeed very few traditional german restaurants left. That's mainly a result of labor law and the labor market. Even places that may still have a traditional 'gasthaus' style marquee are often run by greek, serbian and lately syrian proprietors.

Is this lack of German fare similar to finding a true Scotsman? lol.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Whereabouts? We usually bounce around to a few places each trip over.

Heidelberg....until April.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Those are 'german american' items that you would only find in a german restaurant in the US (the equivalent of 'General Tsos Chicken').

There are indeed very few traditional german restaurants left. That's mainly a result of labor law and the labor market. Even places that may still have a traditional 'gasthaus' style marquee are often run by greek, serbian and lately syrian proprietors.

You think saumagen is American German? Find me one American who has ever eaten saumagen.

 

[wsuffa]

You think saumagen is American German? Find me one American who has ever eaten saumagen.

One here. Not that I care to again (it's in the same category as haggis, blutwurst, and boudin noir). Just not tasty to me. But I have had it.

 

[weilke]

You think saumagen is American German? Find me one American who has ever eaten saumagen.

Find me a german under 70 who has.

It is something you may get at a 'Schlachtfest' event which some civic organizations may put on as a fundraiser. You slaughter a few pigs and eat every bit of meat that can be turned into some kind of sausage.
German american restaurants reflect the cuisine that was common during the period of german migration to the US. They have no relation to what you would get in a upscale german restaurant today.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Find me a german under 70 who has.

It is something you may get at a 'Schlachtfest' event which some civic organizations may put on as a fundraiser. You slaughter a few pigs and eat every bit of meat that can be turned into some kind of sausage.
German american restaurants reflect the cuisine that was common during the period of german migration to the US. They have no relation to what you would get in a upscale german restaurant today.

Everyone who works for me has had it. All under 70. They serve it in our cafeteria.

 

[wsuffa]

Countries Americans are moving to: https://www.reference.com/slideshow/countries-surprising-number-americans-moving

 

[denverpilot]

Everyone who works for me has had it. All under 70. They serve it in our cafeteria.

Well, that’s one sure way to kill the staff off. LOL.

 

[denverpilot]

Countries Americans are moving to: https://www.reference.com/slideshow/countries-surprising-number-americans-moving

I love that every other one says “it’s hard to tell how many are there...” and their list just goes on and on.

 

[n2230b]

Oh, I forgot, don’t drink the tap water in Turkey, don’t say “Putin’s grandmother wears army boots” in Russia and don’t call the Malvinas the Falklands in Argentina. In fact, don’t say anything about Putin’s grandmother anywhere.

 

[sourdough44]

I’ll be staying in the USA, maybe evaluating the corners a bit. Nothing wrong with international travel, even for extended periods.

Anyone still civil with family & friends will have a visit or 3 to schedule.

 

[Caramon13]

Find me a german under 70 who has.

You slaughter a few pigs and eat every bit of meat that can be turned into some kind of sausage.

Sounds a little like scrapple, which cannot be found here in FL but was pretty common in PA where I'm from originally.

 

[weilke]

I love that every other one says “it’s hard to tell how many are there...” and their list just goes on and on.

It also doesn't say how many of them are there because corporate sent them or because they went 'home' to take care of a family member. Those data mining click-bait articles are near meaningless (the other day I saw one that touted Williston, ND as one of the states 'hidden gems' ).

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I've never been in a restaurant in the South that didn't have unsweet tea, but I've been in lots of restaurants up north that don't have sweet tea, although it's getting easier to find at least in the mid Atlantic. I think Chick Fil A has something to do with that.

Normally if you ask for sweet tea up here in the snow belt you'll get "Uh, you mean you want sugar in it?" as the reply. Most people up here have not experienced the delicious supersaturated concoction that is real sweet tea.

One guy said, "You have no American restaurants." I said, "Huh?" He stood and turned 360 deg pointing, "You have Mexican, Chinese, Korean, Indian, more Mexican, another Chinese, but no American."

Sure we do. We just call them "restaurants". Or, more often, "Diners".

What is American? Turkey, roast beast, mashed potatoes, etc... And while I like it now and then, if you compare it with other cuisines, it's pretty bland and boring. No wonder we have so many "foreign" restaurants. Of course, we also have plenty of immigrants to open those foreign restaurants. I'm really glad that on any given day I can choose from Mexican, Thai, Greek, Chinese, Indian, or one of the varieties of "American" food (BBQ, burgers, sandwiches, chicken wings, steak, etc). I can't imagine living life on one cuisine.

 

[wilkersk]

What is American? ....if you compare it with other cuisines, it's pretty bland and boring....

Real Yankee Pot Roast? Philly Cheesesteaks? Cheeseburgers, Pizza, Chili, Fried Chicken (the real stuff not the hormone and antibiotic stuffed superchicken). Porkchops, mashed potatoes and gravy. Oh, ....I could go on, and on, and on...... Having lived on the economy in other countries, I have a deep and abiding appreciation for 'merican! ...........Shrimp-n-grits, po'boys, Fried Catfish, Macaroni and cheese, Hush Puppies, .......

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Real Yankee Pot Roast? Philly Cheesesteaks? Cheeseburgers, Pizza, Chili, Fried Chicken (the real stuff not the hormone and antibiotic stuffed superchicken). Porkchops, mashed potatoes and gravy. Oh, ....I could go on, and on, and on...... Having lived on the economy in other countries, I have a deep and abiding appreciation for 'merican! ...........Shrimp-n-grits, po'boys, Fried Catfish, Macaroni and cheese, Hush Puppies, .......

To be fair - Most of those are pretty bland when you compare them with good Mexican, Indian, Thai, etc...

Now, cajun food is definitely an exception. That's a regional specialty of "American" though.

 

[Matthew]

To be fair - Most of those are pretty bland when you compare them with good Mexican, Indian, Thai, etc...

Now, cajun food is definitely an exception. That's a regional specialty of "American" though.

Bland - coming from a guy that lives in a place that puts cheese on everything!

BBQ, chili, Cajun (all have been mentioned already) are not bland unless you do it wrong. Sure, they are all regional, but "bland" is more than just heat. Meatloaf can be bland, or really savory. Steamed mussels in wine with lots of butter, garlic, and shallots, all sopped up with a good crusty bread slathered with butter is one of life's simple pleasures and it doesn't have any capsaicin.

One of the great things about American food is that it is regional - it's always different wherever you go, and some places just do it better than others.

 

[wilkersk]

To be fair - Most of those are pretty bland when you compare them with good Mexican, Indian, Thai, etc...

Now, cajun food is definitely an exception. That's a regional specialty of "American" though.

You need to find a better cook!

 

[camel]

Have a friend the works for Dole Foods... Went to Argentina on a short term assignment and is now permanently there due to the COL and much more.. Wife and I are going there next year to check it out.. they tell me inflation and interest rate are pretty high right now but this is a standard cycle for them..

He is not a pilot but he tells me there is a pretty strong GA component..

Interesting.. I'm from Texas but have lived in Argentina most of the last 6 years. I got my private pilot license there and have flown quite a bit there (I already had my US PPL). I've made a bunch of good friends through flying GA there. I'm curious what city your friend lives in? If he's interested in meeting another expat, PM me and I'll send my contact info... always good to meet new pilots there. Here's some Patagonia flying:

 

[Pim de Kast]

Im retired in south of France, can recommend it!

 

[SoonerAviator]

Im retired in south of France, can recommend it!

If you emigrate to France, do they issue you a white flag upon arrival?

 

[SoonerAviator]

Bland - coming from a guy that lives in a place that puts cheese on everything!

BBQ, chili, Cajun (all have been mentioned already) are not bland unless you do it wrong. Sure, they are all regional, but "bland" is more than just heat. Meatloaf can be bland, or really savory. Steamed mussels in wine with lots of butter, garlic, and shallots, all sopped up with a good crusty bread slathered with butter is one of life's simple pleasures and it doesn't have any capsaicin.

One of the great things about American food is that it is regional - it's always different wherever you go, and some places just do it better than others.

Yeah, I dunno where any of those items is necessarily bland. I've had bland hamburgers, catfish, pizza, and chicken; however I've also had extremely flavorful versions of those "American" staples as well. All depends on the spices and cooking style.

 

[Velocity173]

I’d like to know the percentage of those that moved outside the US and then returned because it didn’t workout. A lot of people make retirement decisions based on a vacation spot. It’s based on passion vs logic. I’ve lived around the world and while some areas are great to visit, they still don’t have everything that the US has. The novelty, the lure of the unfamiliar will soon turn into longing for family and the familiar.

I always say, anything you can get there, you can get here and more. Whatever money is saved in one area overseas, is made up for in increased costs elsewhere. Plus, I’m not “Guatemalan.” I’d be an outsider and always would be.

 

[Matthew]

I’d like to know the percentage of those that moved outside the US and then returned because it didn’t workout. A lot of people make retirement decisions based on a vacation spot. It’s based on passion vs logic. I’ve lived around the world and while some areas are great to visit, they still don’t have everything that the US has. The novelty, the lure of the unfamiliar will soon turn into longing for family and the familiar.

I always say, anything you can get there, you can get here and more. Whatever money is saved in one area overseas, is made up for in increased costs elsewhere. Plus, I’m not “Guatemalan.” I’d be an outsider and always would be.

You don't have to really look very far. Around here, it's popular to think/dream about, "I'd love to have some land and raise chickens." (or something similar). After a couple years of being a gentleman farmer, reality sets in and the hours of work to maintain or keep the property, equipment, and livestock in proper condition becomes a real burden. It's one thing if you grew up in that environment, but it's not something that comes easily if you haven't.

 

[Ted]

I’d like to know the percentage of those that moved outside the US and then returned because it didn’t workout. A lot of people make retirement decisions based on a vacation spot. It’s based on passion vs logic. I’ve lived around the world and while some areas are great to visit, they still don’t have everything that the US has. The novelty, the lure of the unfamiliar will soon turn into longing for family and the familiar.

I always say, anything you can get there, you can get here and more. Whatever money is saved in one area overseas, is made up for in increased costs elsewhere. Plus, I’m not “Guatemalan.” I’d be an outsider and always would be.

I've also seen where the moving back depends on family and health conditions. I've seen a number of people move down for something on the 5-15 year range, and then at some point their health deteriorates and they want to spend their final days near their family (and in some cases can't live on their own anymore and so it becomes somewhat necessary).

The friends of mine who moved down as ex-pats and have been there for a long time (without much for family) I think are likely to stay there until health issues potentially force them back to their native lands.

You don't have to really look very far. Around here, it's popular to think/dream about, "I'd love to have some land and raise chickens." (or something similar). After a couple years of being a gentleman farmer, reality sets in and the hours of work to maintain or keep the property, equipment, and livestock in proper condition becomes a real burden. It's one thing if you grew up in that environment, but it's not something that comes easily if you haven't.

Where I grew up:



Where I live now:



Hasn't gotten old yet. But I'm not exactly normal.

 

[Matthew]

I've also seen where the moving back depends on family and health conditions. I've seen a number of people move down for something on the 5-15 year range, and then at some point their health deteriorates and they want to spend their final days near their family (and in some cases can't live on their own anymore and so it becomes somewhat necessary).

The friends of mine who moved down as ex-pats and have been there for a long time (without much for family) I think are likely to stay there until health issues potentially force them back to their native lands.



Where I grew up:

View attachment 83295

Where I live now:

View attachment 83296

Hasn't gotten old yet. But I'm not exactly normal.

I was thinking of you - you've lasted much longer than most!

 

[Matthew]

I've also seen where the moving back depends on family and health conditions. I've seen a number of people move down for something on the 5-15 year range, and then at some point their health deteriorates and they want to spend their final days near their family (and in some cases can't live on their own anymore and so it becomes somewhat necessary).

The friends of mine who moved down as ex-pats and have been there for a long time (without much for family) I think are likely to stay there until health issues potentially force them back to their native lands.



Where I grew up:

View attachment 83295

Where I live now:

View attachment 83296

Hasn't gotten old yet. But I'm not exactly normal.

When my wife and I visited NYC a long time ago I commented that I could see how people would love that city life. I figured I'd be able to take it for a little while, maybe a year or so, and then I'd have to get out. I don't know that I could get used to it. Sure, I could force my way though it, but eventually I think I'd have to get out.

 

[Ted]

I was thinking of you - you've lasted much longer than most!

Almost 5 years in, and no regrets, at least not for me. Laurie does wish we were closer to town a lot of times, but the reality of the impact for us isn't bad. When we lived in a neighborhood in Ohio (because she felt our PA house was too far away from everything) we found it took just as long to get to the places we needed to go.

In another 15 years or so when we're empty nesters and our kids are out of college, I could see us reevaluating things. But we're a long ways off from that.

Honestly, the most annoying part is the lack of being able to order a pizza and have it delivered. But we've gotten used to it.

When my wife and I visited NYC a long time ago I commented that I could see how people would love that city life. I figured I'd be able to take it for a little while, maybe a year or so, and then I'd have to get out. I don't know that I could get used to it. Sure, I could force my way though it, but eventually I think I'd have to get out.

The biggest advantage to it that I see is once you hit the geriatric stage. My mom is unable to drive and here in the KC area, she'd need to be in some kind of assisted living facility or living with us. Living in the aforementioned "Ted's Crib" she's basically able to live the same life that she's always lived. The grocery store is a few blocks away and she doesn't need much food for just her (plus there's lots of delivery/takeout).

Assuming I degrade like she has (which hopefully I won't, or at least not in my mid 70s like she did), I could see the benefits of moving back there. Especially if my friends are still there.