Retirement: inside or outside the USA?

Southpaw said:
Thinking I'm staying right here. Like my neighbors, and the view isn't bad.
But North Montana is not for every one . Can't upload a picture of the view from my chair but it's lovely .
Check out on Face Book "Sweet Grass Hills - Sunrise to Sunset " It's a site I started that showcases the surrounding country side.
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Hundreds of years ago, when I was young, my first thought of a place to retire was in a log cabin somewhere Northwest of Helena, MT.

A few years ago, I was weathered in in Helena and had a chance to rent a jeep and drive to the exact area I had dreamed of last Century. I was shocked that it was not covered with tacky "retirement" homes and gift shops. It must be impossible to buy land up there because there were very few houses or structures of any kind, for that matter.
I think most of the area is a national park or some kind of protected land and there are plenty of cool historic site to visit.

Although I'll never go there to retire, I'm glad to know it is still mostly primitive and has not been ruined by those foreigners from California (yet).
 
denverpilot said:
Any idea why they didn’t do Roatan?

The local politicians are all Texans and Oprah has a twelve house compound. LOL.
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They just change their minds every 10 minutes on where to retire. A few years ago it was Scottsdale, then Italy, then Roatan, then going halves in on a home in Costa Rica with my uncle, Panama City Beach, and the latest is Naples. I think they are leaning more towards staying stateside now because they want to be somewhat close to me and my siblings.
 
Morgan3820 said:
You’re right. If you don’t like sweet tea, then maybe the south is not for you. And don’t forget the mountains of South Carolina and Virginia.

But Georgia is worth you checking out. Simmons Island. And South Carolina is probably a good fit too. Murreles Inlet is really nice.
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I've never been in a restaurant in the South that didn't have unsweet tea, but I've been in lots of restaurants up north that don't have sweet tea, although it's getting easier to find at least in the mid Atlantic. I think Chick Fil A has something to do with that.
 
FormerHangie said:
I've never been in a restaurant in the South that didn't have unsweet tea, but I've been in lots of restaurants up north that don't have sweet tea,
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I have had similar experiences. In the South for over 40 years. Almost everywhere, if I ask for iced tea and don't specify they ask me "sweet or unsweet". If I want hot tea, I have to specify Hot.
Universally in the North if I ask for tea, I get hot with no questions. If I ask for Iced tea, I get a quizzical look and then get a glass of hot tea with an ice cube or two.

It is a myth that in the south people only know sweet tea. Maybe it had some truth a hundred years ago (I don't know that), but no longer.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Correct, was referring to Medicaid, not Medicare; although there may not be much of a difference from the provider's view.
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There is a lot of difference. As chincy as the Medicare reimbursements are, Medicaid is worse.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I'm fortunate enough to be a dual citizen of the US and of Portugal. I'm seriously considering retiring over there. I might buy some property soon and rent it out until I'm ready to live there. If nothing else, I'll use it as a vacation rental and split my time between here and there.
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Lots of Brits retire there. It's a nice country.

Morgan3820 said:
How can I get dual citizenship. Sounds nice. You can pick whichever country works best at the moment.
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Not so easy. As Sluggo mentions, some countries - like Portugal - have inherited citizenship. I think Poland is that way, too, as a friend has dual citizenship that way.

Many countries offer the chance for citizenship after a certain number of years of residency. Portugal is one of the more liberal ones - with a Golden Visa, one can get a resident visa fairly quickly, permanent residency after 5 years, and citizenship after 6 years. Search on Golden Visa for Portugal for more info.

Japan and Switzerland are some of the harder ones. I think Monaco is hard, too. With Switzerland, there was a recents court case about someone who was denied citizenship by the Canton because he didn't know that bears and wolves shared the same enclosure at the zoo.


Sluggo63 said:
Each country has it's own rules for who can be citizens and how it's determined. Most are either by birth (jus sanguinis) or by being born in a country (jus soli). They also have rules whether or not you have to renounce any other citizenships.

For Portugal, they let citizenship pass down one generation from parents who are born there. Since my father was born in Portugal, I was able to obtain Portuguese citizenship through jus sanguinis. There were a lot of hoops to jump through, but hopefully it'll be worth it. Even if I don't decide to live in Portugal, the EU citizenship makes getting residency in other EU countries pretty easy.
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Yep, getting citizenship in any EU country gives you EU citizenship and eases the process of residency in other countries. Not sure whether it's just EU countries or any Schengen country.
 
wsuffa said:
Yep, getting citizenship in any EU country gives you EU citizenship and eases the process of residency in other countries. Not sure whether it's just EU countries or any Schengen country.
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It doesn't give you citizenship of the other EU countries. 'EU citizenship's is a bit of an artificial construct as it doesn't exist without you being a citizen of any of the underlying treaty countries. You are still a citizen of your country, but you have 'EU rights'. That means the 'right of abode', the right to accept employment and you are eligible for government services like a citizen after you reside x years. Your passport still says 'portugal' but you can live in France or Italy if you wish to do so. During the Accession of new countries, EU rights for those residents are somewhat restricted. E.g. during the eastern expansion, the citizens of Bulgaria/Romania still had to seek work permits to accept jobs in germany. There were quotas etc. and it eventually was subject to a sunset provision so now the citizens of the Accession countries have full EU rights.

Practically speaking, if you are a US citizen and your dad was Irish from Ireland and you are able to get an Irish passport, you can move to France or Italy without either country being able to restrict your residency based on a language test etc.
 
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IK04 said:
Hundreds of years ago, when I was young, my first thought of a place to retire was in a log cabin somewhere Northwest of Helena, MT.

A few years ago, I was weathered in in Helena and had a chance to rent a jeep and drive to the exact area I had dreamed of last Century. I was shocked that it was not covered with tacky "retirement" homes and gift shops. It must be impossible to buy land up there because there were very few houses or structures of any kind, for that matter.
I think most of the area is a national park or some kind of protected land and there are plenty of cool historic site to visit.

Although I'll never go there to retire, I'm glad to know it is still mostly primitive and has not been ruined by those foreigners from California (yet).
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Well Bozeman , Missoula, Kalispell, Whitefish, Helena have pretty much been over run . But there are a few areas left with small holding in the near wilderness areas of NW Montana . The Yack is one .
 
We went to Missoula and immediately noticed the weirdo vibe... Sad to see that happen to a cool town.
 
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IK04 said:
We went to Missoula and immediately noticed the weirdo vibe... Sad to see that happen to a cool town.
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It was a great place back in the timbering Just a "College town" days.
My Uncle moved to Alberton After WWII . Ran a Texaco station and was the Hudson Dealer .
Long time passing .......
 
Another Place over run and sub divided is the Hamilton area south of Missoula .
Was down there ten years ago . Only one full time farmer left in valley. The rest are growing houses.
 
Matthew said:
I figured that part of my retirement would be the ability to continue to fly. It may just be local flights for pancakes in nice VMC only, but I’m not ready to give that up yet. So somewhere near a reasonable GA lifestyle/location. My wife wants warm, I want low humidity. So somewhere arid but not like Phoenix hot. Realistically we’ll probably stay in or near KC since we have family nearby that we could be taking care of for another 15-20 years. By then we might be too old to do much other than just stay put.
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Flagstaff Az?
 
n2230b said:
No other country has the freedoms and resources accorded citizens of USA.
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Agree. The problem with most "freedom" listings is the lack of credit given to "protections" afforded to those freedoms. Hence the reason the UK is listed above the US regardless if you can be arrested in the UK for speaking your mind in certain public situations because the UK does not protect free speech as an individual right as the Bill of Rights does. But as with any "global" ranking it's subjective to the person using it.
 
Bell206 said:
Agree. The problem with most "freedom" listings is the lack of credit given to "protections" afforded to those freedoms. Hence the reason the UK is listed above the US regardless if you can be arrested in the UK for speaking your mind in certain public situations because the UK does not protect free speech as an individual right as the Bill of Rights does. But as with any "global" ranking it's subjective to the person using it.
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Quite true. Depends on which freedoms one values most. Nobody under any government is truly free.
 
denverpilot said:
Nobody under any government is truly free.
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Of course. But nor is anything in life perfect. But in my personal experience here and overseas the one place everyone wants to be in is the good ole US of A.:)
 
The answer for me is probably going to be '3-5 miles from wherever one of my kids lives'.
Places and things seem to matter less and less as the years add up.
 
Bell206 said:
Agree. The problem with most "freedom" listings is the lack of credit given to "protections" afforded to those freedoms. Hence the reason the UK is listed above the US regardless if you can be arrested in the UK for speaking your mind in certain public situations because the UK does not protect free speech as an individual right as the Bill of Rights does. But as with any "global" ranking it's subjective to the person using it.
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True, but I'd also note that a number of freedoms we hold dear have been under erosion for some time. Our Constitution was intended to limit government restrictions on many rights, but over the years has seemingly turned into a document that only specifies which rights you're granted. Our surveillance state makes it worse. I'll stop there rather than turn political.

There are many places that are worse, but some seem more 'live and let live'.

All that said, I'm in full agreement that the ranking is very much subject to the views of the person making the ranking and the person using it.
 
wsuffa said:
All that said, I'm in full agreement that the ranking is very much subject to the views of the person making the ranking and the person using it.
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If for your sense of freedom it is critical to walk around with a glass of wine on the street or to let your boobs flop around on a public beach, then sure many european countries rank quite a bit higher than the US.

As for the one cited earlier, any 'freedom index' that has Mexico in the same numeric bracket as Putins russia is suspect.
 
n2230b said:
I like my Bill of Rights.
So I’m staying here.
No other country has the freedoms and resources accorded citizens of USA.
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This is an honest question. No snark, I swear.

What freedoms do you think you personally would be missing out on if you lived outside the US in another "First World" country versus what you have here? I'm as freedom loving as the next guy, but after living in Germany for several years, I never once felt like I was being repressed in any way, in fact, in many way it seemed much more free.

Disclaimer: I"m a big proponent of the 2nd Amendment, but not a huge gun guy. I've owned a few in the past, but no longer. So, if you are an arms enthusiast and like to keep guns around, I could see that as a deal breaker.
 
denverpilot said:
The U.S. is ranked 15th in overall freedoms by the generally accepted Human Freedom Index.
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Put that way the U.S. does not seem that "free". However if you look at the 2019 data you will see the top rated New Zealand has a score of 8.88 while U.S. has 8.46. Not such a big difference. By comparison, most of the Middle East countries are around 4 or 5.
 
flyingbrit said:
Put that way the U.S. does not seem that "free". However if you look at the 2019 data you will see the top rated New Zealand has a score of 8.88 while U.S. has 8.46. Not such a big difference. By comparison, most of the Middle East countries are around 4 or 5.
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Was wondering if anyone would actually read it. :)
 
Sac Arrow said:
Can’t speak for Belize or Panama, but for Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos, lots of people. Ten years later.

I personally know them.
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My dad's oldest brother lived in Anchorage until his kids were grown and on their own, he maintained his Irish passport and traveled the world. He settled in Thailand, met a lady and had had a baby at 65!! Lived there until is death at 78. He wasn't a wealthy guy, but had a decent retirement income from the post office and SS, plus a few investments. He said he could live like a king in Thailand on his postal retirement!
 
weilke said:
The answer for me is probably going to be '3-5 miles from wherever one of my kids lives'.
Places and things seem to matter less and less as the years add up.
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Our daughter is expecting our first grandchild in May, they live about 30 minutes from us in a house her husband inherited on some family land, so they aren't moving! We are looking to downsize anyway, so we are looking near them. My wife isn't able to drive, except on her good days and it would be nice to be a few minutes away from the baby!!
 
Sluggo63 said:
I never once felt like I was being repressed in any way, in fact, in many way it seemed much more free.
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Valid point. I too never felt my personal rights repressed or “missing” in the countries I lived. But then again I never put myself in a position where I would need those rights either. And being an American expat does seem to have its perks in certain situations.

But keep in mind, while as an expat in-country you must follow their laws it is not a given that any personal rights afforded to their natural citizens will also apply to you as an expat. Unfortunately, not all people I worked with in those days were “respectful” of those differences. On several occasions I had to “intervene” on their behalf or they would have found out firsthand the differences between the rights and privileges in the US vs our host country.
 
Everskyward said:
I read it, and was puzzled why Hong Kong had such a high ranking, but these were 2019 figures before the current problems.
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That hit me as odd at first too.

Sadly it now shows how fast it can change. And how little the rest of the “free world” cares these days.

Or in the case of China, dares do anything about it.
 
Bell206 said:
Valid point. I too never felt my personal rights repressed or “missing” in the countries I lived. But then again I never put myself in a position where I would need those rights either. And being an American expat does seem to have its perks in certain situations.

But keep in mind, while as an expat in-country you must follow their laws it is not a given that any personal rights afforded to their natural citizens will also apply to you as an expat. Unfortunately, not all people I worked with in those days were “respectful” of those differences. On several occasions I had to “intervene” on their behalf or they would have found out firsthand the differences between the rights and privileges in the US vs our host country.
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I agree, that was kind of the point I was trying to make. I've never felt repressed because I'mnot out there on the fringes seeing what I can get away with. Do I, as an American, find it astounding that a Brit can be arrested for "hate speech?" Sure, I think it's crazy. But I never have felt the need to yell racist or homophobic things at people, so I'm not sure their tighter reins on free speech affect me in my day-to-day life.

I will tell you what though... I thought about this post a few hours ago as I was strolling down Fulham Road, drinking a beer in front of the police after leaving the Chelsea match. And I paid for that beer with the winnings of the bet I made on the match, in the stadium, before kickoff, at the betting window that was next to the concession stand. That's some British-style freedom right there.
 
wsuffa said:
Like I'm even going to consider retiring to Medallin.....

https://wtop.com/gallery/lifestyle/the-best-places-to-retire-overseas-in-2020/
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To paraphrase the 'mayor for life':

'Outside of the death squads, Medellin has one of the lowest crime rates in the country.'


I used to work with someone from Medellin. Apparently its really a nice place to live and since the peace between the government and the FARC and a move of the drug war to different venues, the violence is fairly concentrated in a few neighborhoods. In that way it isn't so different from DC or Chicago where you have a quadrants of the city with vastly differing crime rates.
 
flyingbrit said:
Put that way the U.S. does not seem that "free". However if you look at the 2019 data you will see the top rated New Zealand has a score of 8.88 while U.S. has 8.46. Not such a big difference. By comparison, most of the Middle East countries are around 4 or 5.
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Plus, NZ just banned .22 semiautomatic rifles, like the notorious Ruger 10/22
 
Sluggo63 said:
This is an honest question. No snark, I swear.

What freedoms do you think you personally would be missing out on if you lived outside the US in another "First World" country versus what you have here? I'm as freedom loving as the next guy, but after living in Germany for several years, I never once felt like I was being repressed in any way, in fact, in many way it seemed much more free.

Disclaimer: I"m a big proponent of the 2nd Amendment, but not a huge gun guy. I've owned a few in the past, but no longer. So, if you are an arms enthusiast and like to keep guns around, I could see that as a deal breaker.
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Yes, absence of the right to keep and bear arms is a dealbreaker. However, in addition to the rights “guaranteed” by the amendments to the constitution, there are the actual and tangible conditions that exist in the USA one is free to enjoy. For instance, it would be difficult to find the quality and variety of foodstuffs, fuel and clothing at the prices that we enjoy, anywhere else in the world. The reliability of the electrical grid and quality of the municipal water supply. The efficiency and excellence of first responders, and many more. Music, sports, highway system and national parks, etc. I have lived outside the US in 1st 2nd and 3rd world countries. I have never seen any place that brings it all together for me like we do. I suppose it depends on ones priorities. God bless America!
 
Oh, and I didn’t even mention public schools (with all their faults), healthcare, the arts, higher education, natural resources, law enforcement, climate, entertainment.......the list goes on an on. Now, I LOVE to travel. I travel frequently and hope to continue for many years God willing. But I would not settle to live permanently anywhere else. MHO
 
I spent 1998 to 2003 out of the US, except a 2 week trip back home, on our boat in the Caribbean. My retirement plan is to something similar but in the Pacific.

Picture 001.jpg
 
n2230b said:
Yes, absence of the right to keep and bear arms is a dealbreaker. However, in addition to the rights “guaranteed” by the amendments to the constitution, there are the actual and tangible conditions that exist in the USA one is free to enjoy. For instance, it would be difficult to find the quality and variety of foodstuffs, fuel and clothing at the prices that we enjoy, anywhere else in the world. The reliability of the electrical grid and quality of the municipal water supply. The efficiency and excellence of first responders, and many more. Music, sports, highway system and national parks, etc. I have lived outside the US in 1st 2nd and 3rd world countries. I have never seen any place that brings it all together for me like we do. I suppose it depends on ones priorities. God bless America!
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I've had the chance to work with a number of people from all over the world. When I get a chance I usually ask them something like, "What's the biggest difference you noticed?" Most of the time the answer is, "Your grocery stores are huge!"

One guy said, "You have no American restaurants." I said, "Huh?" He stood and turned 360 deg pointing, "You have Mexican, Chinese, Korean, Indian, more Mexican, another Chinese, but no American."
 
n2230b said:
Yes, absence of the right to keep and bear arms is a dealbreaker.
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If that's dealbreaker, then yes, the US might be one of the only places in the world where that currently stands. I am not so confident that it stands into the future as various states have been chipping away at those rights. I think that in time, the right will be essentially meaningless compared to most other first-world countries. But that's for another discussion.

However, in addition to the rights “guaranteed” by the amendments to the constitution, there are the actual and tangible conditions that exist in the USA one is free to enjoy. For instance, it would be difficult to find the quality and variety of foodstuffs, fuel and clothing at the prices that we enjoy, anywhere else in the world. The reliability of the electrical grid and quality of the municipal water supply. The efficiency and excellence of first responders, and many more. Music, sports, highway system and national parks, etc. I have lived outside the US in 1st 2nd and 3rd world countries. I have never seen any place that brings it all together for me like we do. I suppose it depends on ones priorities. God bless America!
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I would argue that there are plenty of other places in the world where those conditions are met or exceeded.

Let's take the electrical grid, for example. In the last 50-60 years there have been major blackouts that covered vast portions of the US. In California, parts of the grid had to be shut down last year either to prevent or because of the fires. Puerto Rico is a US possession - their grid hasn't recovered from the hurricane. Heck even locally there are issues: I've clocked an average of a full day of downtime per year at my house (major metro) due to storms and lack of line maintenance.

For water, we can look to Flint. Other infrastructure? I've had 6-10 hour internet outages (and I put 25-50% packet loss into that category) the past couple of days, and average 1-3 days a year of total crap service. In my metro, the roads/highway system is a mixed bag and far below the potential - likewise rail service.

And so forth. Nothing on your list cannot be provided by a NON-CORRUPT socialist country - and it's the promise that's been made in communist countries (though generally unmet).

The US certainly has the ability to provide all those conditions. Many places either don't or limit them substantially.

But as you said, it depends on what you value. I am glad to be in the US, but I've also seen it's flaws. Whether those flaws affect my retirement home is yet to be answered - certainly I've already decided that there are a number of states here in the US where I will not retire.
 
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