[rant]Cage free eggs[rant]

James_Dean said:
Your problem then is with the retailer, and not the farmer. As a general rule our industry lives on less than $0.10/dozen profit over the long term and the retailer makes far more, but that is a whole other discussion.

My definition of sustainable is based upon social, environmental, and financial concerns. We have to operate all facets of our business in a way that the majority of citizens in our communities find acceptable. That encompasses animal welfare, labor practices, antibiotic usage(we've eliminated) and nusciance issues among others. We have to ensure that we are not damaging the environment and are using as few inputs as possible. We have to do all this and do it in a way that ensures an acceptable return to the shareholders. I have a whole team working on sustainability measures and we have KPI's that are tracked daily on our performance. Reduce, reuse, recycle. For example, we use soil mapping and GPS guided variable rate applicators to apply manure from the facilities. This ensures that nutrients aren't being applied beyond what is required for agronomy and also directly replaces chemical fertilizers.
Click to expand...

I actually don't have a problem with either and I didn't intend to communicate that. The low cost of food items in the US amazes me (even more so when the regulations and oversight is considered) and I don't blame retailer or farmer for trying to maximize their gains. I only replied to address your statement against the sustainability of backyard chickens. It's a different philosophy towards agriculture that drives that market and I think sustainability is very achievable. The means of controlling costs are very different as are some of the goals. There is a faddish element behind some of it, like most things, but ultimately many of the things that drive up your costs will ensure that this alternative market remains and most likely grows. And for further clarification, I have an appreciation for both. Thanks for the interaction.
 
Dr. O said:
The side effect of free range is bird poop on the porch and spoiled moochers who come running the instant the back door opens.
Click to expand...

That's funny, we've had the same problem. Our back deck had a poop barrier in front of the glass door that the kids found impossible to avoid. We eventually had to change things up a bit to limit what got tracked in on shoes.
 
I see the pictures of the whole operation and have this soundtrack running through my head:

 
I think this thread should be renamed Eggs for Dummies...James you could compile this into a book...then again who would buy it? I find myself the most educated in my family on this subject ... My thanks to you.. A local store has been selling eggs this week for .59 a dozen...limit four...not sure how anyone is making a profit.
 
James_Dean said:
Again, I have no problems if people want to own chickens and eat the eggs. However, it will never be as economical as buying eggs from the store when all costs are considered. There are significant disease, environmental, predation, and food safety issues with backyard production as well. To each his own, but the "profit" doesn't even feature in this calculation.
Click to expand...


Thank you for that. My wife wants to keep some chickens and ducks for the eggs and to eat. I keep telling her it will NOT save us money.

Can you fly down and tell her that in person? She may listen to you. :lol: :yes:
 
Exactly. Sushi may be expensive, but stocking your swimming pool with salmon and tuna isn't going to pay off economically.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
4 mo necropost:

CDC discusses surge of Salmonella disease & death and association with backyard eggs (B.Y.).
I've never thought the taste or "healthfulness" of B.Y. eggs was better, anyway.
Click to expand...

It doesn't appear that there is any problem with the eggs at all. The problem is with people trying to treat everything like it's a pet.
 
I work in a grocery store dairy and "cage free eggs" are like $1.50 more than the regular! The only people who buy them are the stupid "natural only" eaters who can hardly afford a pot to **** but need to spend the extra $2 on "organic" food
 
Don't forget that "free range chickens" are raised in a typical chicken house, with an opening to a pen that can be as small as 10' x 10'. Which doesn't sound too bad, but one chicken house can have 50,000 birds.

No idea what defines "cage free" for eggs, but I'm pretty sure the farmer isn't shuffling around picking eggs up off the floor anymore than the free range chicken farmer is outside chasing his birds down to sell them.

A great concept, but as always, the devil is in the details.
 
Hank S said:
Don't forget that "free range chickens" are raised in a typical chicken house, with an opening to a pen that can be as small as 10' x 10'. Which doesn't sound too bad, but one chicken house can have 50,000 birds.

No idea what defines "cage free" for eggs, but I'm pretty sure the farmer isn't shuffling around picking eggs up off the floor anymore than the free range chicken farmer is outside chasing his birds down to sell them.

A great concept, but as always, the devil is in the details.
Click to expand...


"Wrong!"
-D.Trump
 
Hank S said:
Don't forget that "free range chickens" are raised in a typical chicken house, with an opening to a pen that can be as small as 10' x 10'. Which doesn't sound too bad, but one chicken house can have 50,000 birds.

No idea what defines "cage free" for eggs, but I'm pretty sure the farmer isn't shuffling around picking eggs up off the floor anymore than the free range chicken farmer is outside chasing his birds down to sell them.

A great concept, but as always, the devil is in the details.
Click to expand...
Cage free means that the birds are free to go about there business and yes, drop eggs wherever they please. They are legal obligated to state that the USDA has noticed no difference whatsoever on the quality or health benifits of "cage free" eggs or egg products. It's just like "grass fed" beef, it's a legal up sell that makes dull people feel like they are doing the right thing for the animals that are going to get slaughtered in the same slaughter houses anyway. Our name brand "organic" "cage free" and "grass fed" products come from the same exact facility as the rest. I'm pretty sure it's the same exact product with a differnt sticker put on it as the nutritional value is the exact same, it tastes the same, but it cost and average of $1.50/$3.00 more.
 
Jim Case said:
Cage free means that the birds are free to go about there business and yes, drop eggs wherever they please. They are legal obligated to state that the USDA has noticed no difference whatsoever on the quality or health benifits of "cage free" eggs or egg products. It's just like "grass fed" beef, it's a legal up sell that makes dull people feel like they are doing the right thing for the animals that are going to get slaughtered in the same slaughter houses anyway. Our name brand "organic" "cage free" and "grass fed" products come from the same exact facility as the rest. I'm pretty sure it's the same exact product with a differnt sticker put on it as the nutritional value is the exact same, it tastes the same, but it cost and average of $1.50/$3.00 more.
Click to expand...


And you would be very wrong.

Eggman
COO of a large egg company
President Iowa Poultry Association
Vice-chair United Egg Producer Animal Welfare Comm.
 
James_Dean said:
And you would be very wrong.

Eggman
COO of a large egg company
President Iowa Poultry Association
Vice-chair United Egg Producer Animal Welfare Comm.
Click to expand...
Show me the proof and I will believe it, not saying you are wrong, just that I don't have any reason to buy it yet.
 
James_Dean said:
What do you want me to prove?
Click to expand...
If I am wrong show me in what ways, I'm not being snooty it just reads that way. Whatever you are claiming I am incorrect about, show me how. I can't just take your word for it, I work in a grocery store, I've seen first hand that people will pay more for the same product.
 
Jim Case said:
If I am wrong show me in what ways, I'm not being snooty it just reads that way. Whatever you are claiming I am incorrect about, show me how. I can't just take your word for it, I work in a grocery store, I've seen first hand that people will pay more for the same product.
Click to expand...
People will pay more for similar products, when we had a farm there is no way we would eat grass fed beef! We brought them into the barn for 3-4 weeks and fed them corn and hay to get rid of the grass taste!!
My daughter is one that will spend more for vegetarian raised chicken or whatever organic thing she sees, it doesn't bother me now that she's married and buying her own groceries!
As for eggs, I am pretty sure that Eggman knows as much as anyone about them. I wouldn't challenge him on eggs or Nick Saban on coaching college football! :D
 
Jim Case said:
If I am wrong show me in what ways, I'm not being snooty it just reads that way. Whatever you are claiming I am incorrect about, show me how. I can't just take your word for it, I work in a grocery store, I've seen first hand that people will pay more for the same product.
Click to expand...

You want me to prove that we act in a legal manner and follow the regulations in the Food, Drug and Cosmetics Act, the Egg Products Inspection Act, rules promulgated by the FSIS, FDA, USDA, the NSOB, and the FTC?

You can't just slap a different label on the same product that is regulated and expect to not be fined or go to jail.

I think you are ignorant of the facts and don't plan on going any farther with you. I produce all different kinds of eggs and they aren't "the same product".
 
Jim Case said:
If I am wrong show me in what ways, I'm not being snooty it just reads that way. Whatever you are claiming I am incorrect about, show me how. I can't just take your word for it, I work in a grocery store, I've seen first hand that people will pay more for the same product.
Click to expand...
My wife always comes home with "organic" pure maple syrup because it is the cheapest I guess but I always get a chuckle out of it. It is friggin tree sap boiled down! How can it be "un-organic" ??????
 
Acrodustertoo said:
My wife always comes home with "organic" pure maple syrup because it is the cheapest I guess but I always get a chuckle out of it. It is friggin tree sap boiled down! How can it be "un-organic" ??????
Click to expand...
Well, they say that it's all the additives or lack there of that makes it organic, but if you look at the name brand we sell and the "organic" the ingredients are the same. Still I cannot prove that they are in fact the same product, but it seems likely to me that that is the case.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
My wife always comes home with "organic" pure maple syrup because it is the cheapest I guess but I always get a chuckle out of it. It is friggin tree sap boiled down! How can it be "un-organic" ??????
Click to expand...

Fertilizer and pesticide used on the tree or in the area would be not allowed to achieve organic certification.
 
James_Dean said:
You want me to prove that we act in a legal manner and follow the regulations in the Food, Drug and Cosmetics Act, the Egg Products Inspection Act, rules promulgated by the FSIS, FDA, USDA, the NSOB, and the FTC?

You can't just slap a different label on the same product that is regulated and expect to not be fined or go to jail.

I think you are ignorant of the facts and don't plan on going any farther with you. I produce all different kinds of eggs and they aren't "the same product".
Click to expand...
Ok seems like a pretty clear conflict of interests to me but that's fine. I never said they were all the same, I just don't buy that "organic" is any diffent than the regular. Seeing as the label states right on it that "no significant diffenrce has been found" between the two.
 
James_Dean said:
Fertilizer and pesticide used on the tree or in the area would be not allowed to achieve organic certification.
Click to expand...
From what I have seen, there does not seem to be any maple tree farms that I know of? Maybe there is? I mean farm in the sense like the nut plantations in California.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
From what I have seen, there does not seem to be any maple tree farms that I know of? Maybe there is? I mean farm in the sense like the nut plantations in California.
Click to expand...
They use really big tractors and implements on maple tree farms. They only work at night to keep the <insert evil country here> from stealing our maple tree farming technology.
 
I remember that about ten years ago, the Cracker Barrel restaurant franchise was buying up 15% of the worlds supply of maple syrup every year. They could no longer buy the amounts they needed and have since used a 50/50 blend in their maple syrup. Cane sugar and pure maple.
 
Jim Case said:
Ok seems like a pretty clear conflict of interests to me but that's fine. I never said they were all the same, I just don't buy that "organic" is any diffent than the regular. Seeing as the label states right on it that "no significant diffenrce has been found" between the two.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ, you contradict yourself in a single sentence.

"I never said they were all the same, I just don't buy that "organic" is any diffent than the regular."

He stated clearly that the industry is regulated and that the products are, by law, produced differently.

You can claim that some suppliers ignore the law. I'm sure that's true. Until they get caught anyway.

You can claim there is no health difference. That's almost certainly true.

But you can't claim that he doesn't know what he's talking about nor that the labels mean that products are supposed to be produced differently.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
I remember that about ten years ago, the Cracker Barrel restaurant franchise was buying up 15% of the worlds supply of maple syrup every year. They could no longer buy the amounts they needed and have since used a 50/50 blend in their maple syrup. Cane sugar and pure maple.
Click to expand...
And this is what happens when our maple tree farming technology is kept out of the free trade markets. The world's supply of maple syrup is limited and we all have a lower lifestyle level as a result. I say open up the maple tree farm technology now! It will lead to a brighter future for all.
 
Jim Case said:
Ok seems like a pretty clear conflict of interests to me but that's fine. I never said they were all the same, I just don't buy that "organic" is any diffent than the regular. Seeing as the label states right on it that "no significant diffenrce has been found" between the two.
Click to expand...
I don't think there's any significant difference between the two products, but I believe that, somewhere in this thread, Eggman has explained the difference in the way the chickens are housed, and if I remember correctly there are advantages and disadvantages to both. It makes a difference to some folks, others not so much. To some, a $1.50 difference in a carton of eggs is significant, but not to others.
 
Last edited:
Clark1961 said:
And this is what happens when our maple tree farming technology is kept out of the free trade markets. The world's supply of maple syrup is limited and we all have a lower lifestyle level as a result. I say open up the maple tree farm technology now! It will lead to a brighter future for all.
Click to expand...
They've been stealing our maple seeds all along...
 
Jim Case said:
Ok seems like a pretty clear conflict of interests to me but that's fine. I never said they were all the same, I just don't buy that "organic" is any diffent than the regular. Seeing as the label states right on it that "no significant diffenrce has been found" between the two.
Click to expand...

I think you mean to say: "From a food quality standpoint, the FDA (or others) haven't found any discernible difference in organic vs non-organic variants of the same product." However, that isn't what the "organic" label (or free range, or grass-fed, etc.) labels are representing. Those labels are representing a production method which actually does have a fairly strict legal interpretation in order to qualify for the product labeling. So, while you likely can't taste the difference between a chicken egg that was produced in a regular farm vs free range variants, that doesn't mean that there wasn't a difference in the production method which people are willing to pay more for, mostly on moral grounds.
 
Everskyward said:
They've been stealing our maple seeds all along...
Click to expand...

I bought some "Canadian" maple syrup last week in the duty free outlet at the Edmonton, AB airport on my return to the 'States. Wife had joked about Canada cutting us off after Trump was elected, so I had to smuggle some out. :)
 
Clark1961 said:
And this is what happens when our maple tree farming technology is kept out of the free trade markets. The world's supply of maple syrup is limited and we all have a lower lifestyle level as a result. I say open up the maple tree farm technology now! It will lead to a brighter future for all.
Click to expand...

TAP, BABY, TAP!
 
Clark1961 said:
And this is what happens when our maple tree farming technology is kept out of the free trade markets. The world's supply of maple syrup is limited and we all have a lower lifestyle level as a result. I say open up the maple tree farm technology now! It will lead to a brighter future for all.
Click to expand...
Make Maple Syrup Great Again!
 
Hey James, just curious: for eggs, has there been an instance where a legally defined label has come about (e.g. organic, free range, etc.), and a producer has been able to say, "Well, heck, we do that already!" Or does each and every legal definition require production modification (and cost increase) to comply (if desired)?
 
catmandu said:
Hey James, just curious: for eggs, has there been an instance where a legally defined label has come about (e.g. organic, free range, etc.), and a producer has been able to say, "Well, heck, we do that already!" Or does each and every legal definition require production modification (and cost increase) to comply (if desired)?
Click to expand...

You mean like the sudden plethora of "gluten free" products, many of which never contained any wheat? I've even seen meat advertised as "gluten free" . . .

On the other hand, many labels are splashed with words like "natural" that have no meaning defined by the FDA, so they don't regulate use of the word in labeling.
 
Cage free may not be all that great for chickens' happiness. I was leaving my property last week and saw a fox run into my neighbor's yard. Neighbor was right there on the road, but walkng the other way and missed, it so I told her. She ran back, saying how the fox was surely going to murder them all (in the cage-free environment she provided).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top