[rant]Cage free eggs[rant]

22,000,000...????

I hope you don't put them all in the same basket.....
 
James_Dean said:
We did about 22,000,000 eggs today.
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Is that back up to the pre-disaster numbers of the problems last year with having to kill off the birds en masse?

Just curious if that's still affecting you guys. That was pretty ugly.
 
"Organic" is a crock of nonsense.

I can use scorpion poison as an insecticide and call it organic. But if I use the same poison that is synthesized in a lab that is IDENTICAL down to the molecular level, it's not organic.

There's a reason we have standardized food safety protocols and have moved away from "organic" farming... because the stuff we have now works better. Chipotle got burned hard with their woo about organic/non-GMO nonsense.
 
ircphoenix said:
"Organic" is a crock of nonsense.

I can use scorpion poison as an insecticide and call it organic. But if I use the same poison that is synthesized in a lab that is IDENTICAL down to the molecular level, it's not organic.

There's a reason we have standardized food safety protocols and have moved away from "organic" farming... because the stuff we have now works better. Chipotle got burned hard with their woo about organic/non-GMO nonsense.
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Exactly. Organic means carbon containing compound. Those plastic fake apples displayed in model homes are organic, by definition. Their ceramic counterparts are not.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
wow.....I can't imagine eating a ceramic egg....:eek:
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Just pulverize it in to small enough pieces, make sure there are no sharp edges. You'll be fine. The plastic one would probably be easier to swallow though.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Exactly. Organic means carbon containing compound. Those plastic fake apples displayed in model homes are organic, by definition. Their ceramic counterparts are not.
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Context: "the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed"

You are using the wrong definition.

In this context it means: "Simply stated, organic produce and other ingredients are grown without the use of pesticides, synthetic fertilizers, sewage sludge, genetically modified organisms, or ionizing radiation. Animals that produce meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products do not take antibiotics or growth hormones."

Which is still ********. You don't need to deliberately misunderstand the meaning to make that industry look dumber than it is.
 
denverpilot said:
Is that back up to the pre-disaster numbers of the problems last year with having to kill off the birds en masse?

Just curious if that's still affecting you guys. That was pretty ugly.
Click to expand...

We started repopulating in Sept or Oct of 2015 and just last month got back up to full production. The biggest effect for the US egg industry was the supply reduction in the summer of 2015 resulting in record high prices through the end of 2015. The high prices destroyed demand, we imported a bunch of eggs from around the world, we lost our export markets, and non-affected producers pulled out all the stops to increase production. That lead to the "great crash of 2016" where the industry has been in a large loss cycle for most of 2016. Most of the year it was challenging to even cover our feed costs.

The ping-pong of the market is making this whole cage free discussion rather interesting. Due to some esoterics of the egg markets the pricing between conventional and cage free eggs in 2015 was very small. I feel that gave retail executives comfort that they could make the announcements to go to only cage free with little "potential cost". The price delta is now huge and nobody knows what to do.

2017 is going to be interesting.
 
ircphoenix said:
"Organic" is a crock of nonsense.

I can use scorpion poison as an insecticide and call it organic. But if I use the same poison that is synthesized in a lab that is IDENTICAL down to the molecular level, it's not organic.

There's a reason we have standardized food safety protocols and have moved away from "organic" farming... because the stuff we have now works better. Chipotle got burned hard with their woo about organic/non-GMO nonsense.
Click to expand...

There is a National Organic Standards Board that is part of USDA that regulates the criteria to be eligible to put 'Organic' on a commodity product label. In the case of eggs it mandates cage free, but also access to the outdoors for a certain number of hours per day, a space requirement per bird for the 'pasture', no antibiotics, and limits on certain feed ingredients.

The one that I just don't get is that they limit or preclude the use of synthetic amino acids in the feed ration. We sample feed ingredients for their amino acid profiles and adjust our feed rations based upon measured flock performace. We use essential amino acids like methionine, lysine, tryptophan and threonine in the rations to balance out what is naturally in the bulk feed ingredients to ensure the birds get what they need for optimum performance. The NOSB sees those as "chemicals" and prohibits their use. Instead you have to fortify the diet with extra soy meal or other protein source or accept sub-par performance. To me that is like saying water is a chemical.

We don't play in that space because there is a strong contingent that believes 'organic' is not congruent with 'commercial' and thus make it maddening for someone like me who likes efficiency and logic.
 
James_Dean said:
There is a National Organic Standards Board that is part of USDA that regulates the criteria to be eligible to put 'Organic' on a commodity product label. In the case of eggs it mandates cage free, but also access to the outdoors for a certain number of hours per day, a space requirement per bird for the 'pasture', no antibiotics, and limits on certain feed ingredients.

The one that I just don't get is that they limit or preclude the use of synthetic amino acids in the feed ration. We sample feed ingredients for their amino acid profiles and adjust our feed rations based upon measured flock performace. We use essential amino acids like methionine, lysine, tryptophan and threonine in the rations to balance out what is naturally in the bulk feed ingredients to ensure the birds get what they need for optimum performance. The NOSB sees those as "chemicals" and prohibits their use. Instead you have to fortify the diet with extra soy meal or other protein source or accept sub-par performance. To me that is like saying water is a chemical.

We don't play in that space because there is a strong contingent that believes 'organic' is not congruent with 'commercial' and thus make it maddening for someone like me who likes efficiency and logic.
Click to expand...

Well... Talking about government standards in the same post as "efficiency and logic" is kind of a contradiction in any case. For example, what exactly does "cage-free" have to do with "organic" in terms of the final product? That's just Yuppie nonsense, in my opinion. But then again, so is most of the whole "organic" agriculture movement. A lot of it is more about politics than nutrition.

My biggest problem with "organic" is that most people consider it synonymous with "healthy," which is not the case. Yeah, the stuff (supposedly) is free of some pesticides and other agrichemicals whose safety may be questionable in some cases, but that alone doesn't make it 'healthy." I read labels, and a lot of "organic" stuff has enough salt and sugar to make a healthy person sick if they ate it for a long enough time -- even more than comparable "non-organic" products contain. Apparently that's perfectly legal.

In any case, I'm glad your operation is up and running, and I hope things pick up in your market. The egg industry and farming in general are too important to lose; and the hard-working, risk-taking people in those industries deserve to make good livings.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
In any case, I'm glad your operation is up and running, and I hope things pick up in your market. The egg industry and farming in general are too important to lose; and the hard-working, risk-taking people in those industries deserve to make good livings.

Rich
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I appreciate that. I feel really good about what we do. We touch a lot of food plates every day and our team is coached to think just like that. If I'm not comfortable feeding it to my kids, I'm certainly not comfortable feeding it to yours.
 
Any concern with regard to the bird flu crisis in France?
 
172andyou said:
Context: "the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed"

You are using the wrong definition.

In this context it means: "Simply stated, organic produce and other ingredients are grown without the use of pesticides, synthetic fertilizers, sewage sludge, genetically modified organisms, or ionizing radiation. Animals that produce meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products do not take antibiotics or growth hormones."

Which is still ********. You don't need to deliberately misunderstand the meaning to make that industry look dumber than it is.
Click to expand...
Actually, he is using a correct definition. As a chemist, this statement is correct:
Sac Arrow said:
Exactly. Organic means carbon containing compound. <snip>
Click to expand...

The comment below is both correct or incorrect depending on how the term "organic" is being used. If the scorpion poison is synthesized in a lab, it is an organic compound (using the definition posted by Sac). But it isn't "naturally grown organic from free-range scorpions". Thees a huge branch of chemistry called "organic chemistry" See: https://www.organicdivision.org/
ircphoenix said:
"Organic" is a crock of nonsense.

I can use scorpion poison as an insecticide and call it organic. But if I use the same poison that is synthesized in a lab that is IDENTICAL down to the molecular level, it's not organic.

There's a reason we have standardized food safety protocols and have moved away from "organic" farming... because the stuff we have now works better. Chipotle got burned hard with their woo about organic/non-GMO nonsense.
Click to expand...
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Actually, he is using a correct definition. As a chemist, this statement is correct:


The comment below is both correct or incorrect depending on how the term "organic" is being used. If the scorpion poison is synthesized in a lab, it is an organic compound (using the definition posted by Sac). But it isn't "naturally grown organic from free-range scorpions". Thees a huge branch of chemistry called "organic chemistry" See: https://www.organicdivision.org/
Click to expand...

I think if CPT Jack (CAPT?) wishes to promote free range scorpions, he will be met with some resistance.
 
James_Dean said:
I think we applied about 400,000 TONS in 2016.
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I used to live in Blue Ridge GA in the mountains. When we'd cruise around in the spring farmers would apply that stuff and it was strong, very strong.
 
I must say, the organic and anti-vac movements is the thing that causes the left to lose all credibility when it comes to try calling the right "anti-science". I'm left myself, but this one drives me nuts.

You can take the maximum ever recorded pesticide residue on an apple, and have 1200 doses of that per day before it will have ANY noticeable side effect.
Yet if you take 20 of the purist organic apples you can find and throw their cores into a food processor and drink it, you'll be dead within minutes.

But when a scientist say: "Cyanide in apples are safe!" - Sure, no problem!
Same scientist who say: "Pesticides on apples are safe!" - Uhhh. I need a label!

Don't even get me started on people who "stay away from MSG", yet have no problem eating sushi.

I go out of my way NOT to buy Organic products. The thing that bugs me is that I know that there is produce coming from the same organic crop that gets packaged differently and sold as organic AND non-organic in the same store - at different price points. I don't care that they sell at different price points - I see "organic" as a tax on people who didn't pay attention in science class. BUT, organic crops carry salmonella and e-coli at a much higher rate. I got caught up in that a few years ago, turns out it was organic spinach that was sold as non-organic. But you can't even complain or sue on that because there is no truth-in-labelling that works the reverse of "organic". Argh.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
The comment below is both correct or incorrect depending on how the term "organic" is being used.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Which is why we use context to determine which meaning is appropriate.
 
James_Dean said:
We started repopulating in Sept or Oct of 2015 and just last month got back up to full production. The biggest effect for the US egg industry was the supply reduction in the summer of 2015 resulting in record high prices through the end of 2015. The high prices destroyed demand, we imported a bunch of eggs from around the world, we lost our export markets, and non-affected producers pulled out all the stops to increase production. That lead to the "great crash of 2016" where the industry has been in a large loss cycle for most of 2016. Most of the year it was challenging to even cover our feed costs.

The ping-pong of the market is making this whole cage free discussion rather interesting. Due to some esoterics of the egg markets the pricing between conventional and cage free eggs in 2015 was very small. I feel that gave retail executives comfort that they could make the announcements to go to only cage free with little "potential cost". The price delta is now huge and nobody knows what to do.

2017 is going to be interesting.
Click to expand...
Someone is up to full production, or they are selling at a loss but hope to make it up in volume :) . I've been seeing eggs @ $0.50/dozen on sale over Christmas. Price now is $0.75/dozen at the store yesterday.
 
@James_Dean thought you'd get a chuckle...

54ea978881127a7cfe41f3c9b9fc9dab.jpg
 
denverpilot said:
@James_Dean thought you'd get a chuckle...

54ea978881127a7cfe41f3c9b9fc9dab.jpg
Click to expand...

I participated in a symposium in Washington DC this week with a bunch of stakeholders to discuss exactly what 'cage-free' means and how to get that message to consumers. There is more truth to the above cartoon than anyone is really happy about - which is why we confined the birds in the first place 60 years ago.

I'll produce what the consumer wants, but I will still feed my kids eggs from birds in enclosures. YMMV.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Someone is up to full production, or they are selling at a loss but hope to make it up in volume :) . I've been seeing eggs @ $0.50/dozen on sale over Christmas. Price now is $0.75/dozen at the store yesterday.
Click to expand...

Demand destruction from the high prices in 2015, imported eggs and products, loss of export markets, and full repopulation are an ugly combination. Some guys will be bankrupt before it straightens out.
 
James_Dean said:
I participated in a symposium in Washington DC this week with a bunch of stakeholders to discuss exactly what 'cage-free' means and how to get that message to consumers. There is more truth to the above cartoon than anyone is really happy about - which is why we confined the birds in the first place 60 years ago.

I'll produce what the consumer wants, but I will still feed my kids eggs from birds in enclosures. YMMV.
Click to expand...

And no offer of a ride in the Conquest? Harrumph! :)
 
I can't wait until tomorrow morning, I love a big egg/bacon/toast breakfast on the weekends. Sometimes it's the small things that bring great joy. I'm glad you guys are up and going, James, and I hope you can weather the price fluctuations.
 
Bill Jennings said:
I can't wait until tomorrow morning, I love a big egg/bacon/toast breakfast on the weekends. Sometimes it's the small things that bring great joy. I'm glad you guys are up and going, James, and I hope you can weather the price fluctuations.
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GeorgeC said:
And no offer of a ride in the Conquest? Harrumph! :)
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There wasn't much time for sightseeing as we were only on the ground for 25 hours or so. Sorry!

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N425XP/history/20170206/1730Z/KIKV/KJYO
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N425XP/history/20170207/2115Z/KJYO/KOSU


Leesburg is a pretty good option for the DC area. The tailwind on the way out was nice, but the return - sucked. Low, slow, rainy, and icy. The approach into OSU was really nice though as I had a new IR pilot along with me and he got to see all the glass and autopilot in action. He called it 'cheating'.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Someone is up to full production, or they are selling at a loss but hope to make it up in volume :) . I've been seeing eggs @ $0.50/dozen on sale over Christmas. Price now is $0.75/dozen at the store yesterday.
Click to expand...
It's been $1.50 / dozen and higher here. Got some on sale at $0.99/dz around Christmas. Should have bought more.
 
Yup, I've been flying out of Leesburg lately. Nice airport, though the runway is about 3x too long...
 
I got back to this thread just now. Glad to hear that Eggman's business is back up and running, and pumping out those single-serving, natural casing, protein packages.

I had 2 yesterday, 1 this morning, and probably will have 2 for breakfast tomorrow. And if you add in the breakfast burrito the other day that had maybe 2 scrambled eggs inside, I eat plenty more than I realize.
 
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