Ramp Checked

Lance F said:
I got ramp checked yesterday for the first time in my flying career. I find it most unbelievable that the FAA has the time and money for this time wasting foolishness but doesn't have enough money to keep control towers open. :mad2:
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So, how did it go?
Report report.

I found the report,
 
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My take on ramp checks?

Whose name is on the pilot or medical certificate? Federal Aviation Administration. If they want to see it, they can see it.

Render unto Caesar. . .
 
comanchepilot said:
My take on ramp checks?

Whose name is on the pilot or medical certificate? Federal Aviation Administration. If they want to see it, they can see it.

Render unto Caesar. . .
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So if you dont have any certs you are exempt?:D
 
bnt83 said:
I think we already have one to some degree. How many folks are soaked with student loan debt, many of which hold useless degrees?
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Yup......................

Degrees in the Liberal Arts.:yikes::eek:..

Mark my words..... In the next election cycle, a (certain) political party will pass legislation the forgives all the outstanding student loan debt that totals just under 1 TRILLION dollars.... That act alone will buy them enough votes to completely sink this great nation..:redface::sad:...

Party now.... the music will soon end...:(
 
N801BH said:
Yup......................

Degrees in the Liberal Arts.:yikes::eek:..

Mark my words..... In the next election cycle, a (certain) political party will pass legislation the forgives all the outstanding student loan debt that totals just under 1 TRILLION dollars.... That act alone will buy them enough votes to completely sink this great nation..:redface::sad:...

Party now.... the music will soon end...:(
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Gotta steel it. FB awaits.:)
 
alaskaflyer said:
Not true either at least in all but one or two states and not true of Feds. As has been amply described in countless threads here.
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In Florida, only the Wildlife officers can search your vehicle without a warrant. This information comes from a good friend of mine who is a 20 year police officer. He told me to NEVER allow them in my car without a warrant.

edited to add: Sure, they can make up bogus stuff to do what they want, essentially arrest you so they can search your car. I was making a statement about legality, not bending rules (laws) to make a point like some above :)
 
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None that I know. Planning isn't limited to pre-flight activities.

bnt83 said:
I think we already have one to some degree. How many folks are soaked with student loan debt, many of which hold useless degrees?
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RotorAndWing said:
Ok, I'll play along.

FAA: "OK Sir, no problem, I'll be on my way. However I will be sending you a letter of investigation into the matter and you will be given a chance to answer. However if you decide not to answer I will continue my investigation without you answer and proceed which may or may not elevate into an enforcement action based upon our findings.". "And please understand that this is not a criminal case but is administrative, I would suggest you understand the difference before proceeding".
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But the FAA isn't a bully...

Seriously, at an uncontrolled airport, could they even make a case that you flying at a particular time in a particular place? All they have right now is someone who is uncooperative.
 
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bflynn said:
But the FAA isn't a bully...

Seriously, at an uncontrolled airport, could they even make a case that you flying at a particular time in a particular place? All they have right now is someone who is uncooperative.
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True, many factors to be considered.

You just have to ask yourself one question:

Do you feel lucky?
 
RotorAndWing said:
The "point" is that it is a sampling to insure properly rated people are operating aircraft. No different than a police officer asking to see your license.
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Not really, police officers don't just stop random drivers to 'sample' them for their license and registration.
 
dell30rb said:
Not really, police officers don't just stop random drivers to 'sample' them for their license and registration.
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Well, police officers are tax collectors first. Something the FAA guys don't have to do...which is nice.
 
Zhunter said:
In Florida, only the Wildlife officers can search your vehicle without a warrant. This information comes from a good friend of mine who is a 20 year police officer. He told me to NEVER allow them in my car without a warrant.

edited to add: Sure, they can make up bogus stuff to do what they want, essentially arrest you so they can search your car. I was making a statement about legality, not bending rules (laws) to make a point like some above :)
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I'm not vouching for word for word accuracy but Wikipedia has a pretty good short summary of the issue if you want to read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_exception

That said Florida may be one of those few states (like Alaska where I most recently worked before moving here) where through state legislation or state judicial decision something is different, for state and local officers.
 
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Maybe I'm just naive, but I'm not worried about ramp checks. If I am in such a hurry that 5 min. is going to ruin my day, I need to find another form of travel; so that isn't a factor. As far as my aircraft and paperwork, I spend a lot of time to keep them right. If for some reason I am out of compliance on something then the inspector did their job and I need to fix the issue.

If I really screw something up, I can always buy a boat.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Don't they have to stop everybody not random sample?
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yep, and in MT at least, they have to publish the checkpoints in the newspaper before they set them up. They draw the ire of the masses, but IIRC it went to the SCOTUS and they declared them "constitutional"
 
Everskyward said:
They do at sobriety checkpoints.
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That's an exception, and as was pointed out they stop everyone.

Also as previously noted in many communities the location and time of a checkpoint must be published well in advance.
 
bnt83 said:
How do you erase trillions of debt? Make the currency worthless. The side affects include making savings accounts worthless also.
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thats how we financed the vietnam war . . . the inflation of the late 70's and early 80's was monetary - its just now that the markets are more complex, meaning more brittle as we discovered in 2008, and the printing can be hidden easier. . .
 
Alexb2000 said:
Maybe I'm just naive, but I'm not worried about ramp checks. If I am in such a hurry that 5 min. is going to ruin my day, I need to find another form of travel; so that isn't a factor. As far as my aircraft and paperwork, I spend a lot of time to keep them right. If for some reason I am out of compliance on something then the inspector did their job and I need to fix the issue.

If I really screw something up, I can always buy a boat.
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I agree that in the grand scheme of things we have a lot more to worry about than a random ramp check.

I do think the FAA could save some money if they got rid of the random checks and investigated only on probable cause or a legitimate complaint. That is how laws are enforced nationwide and it seems to be working fine.
 
bflynn said:
But the FAA isn't a bully...

Seriously, at an uncontrolled airport, could they even make a case that you flying at a particular time in a particular place? All they have right now is someone who is uncooperative.
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yet another question - at most airports can an FAA ramper even get access - if you see one should you call the police and have them ejected.

Most ramp access documents limit access to "those present with permission, those holding ramp passes, law enforcement and airport authority employees in the lawful exercise of their duties. Thats what mine says - so if the FAA shows up I'll first ask them if they are lawfully present on the field and who they got permission from. . . .

That'll throw a monkey wrench into their day because like bureaucrats everywhere - they never ask permission cause thy know they'd get it. Yet, a lawful ramp check assumes that the FAA Guys have permission to be there . . .

its not like it would be denied, which is the reason they never ask for it.
 
dell30rb said:
That's an exception, and as was pointed out they stop everyone.

Also as previously noted in many communities the location and time of a checkpoint must be published well in advance.
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but they don't stop everyone - if traffic backs up too far - then they start stopping every 3rd car - working up to every 5th and so on. There are folks who will rally at a checkpoint and attempt to flood it with vehicles as a form of civil disobedience. . . .
 
Alexb2000 said:
Maybe I'm just naive, but I'm not worried about ramp checks. If I am in such a hurry that 5 min. is going to ruin my day, I need to find another form of travel; so that isn't a factor. As far as my aircraft and paperwork, I spend a lot of time to keep them right. If for some reason I am out of compliance on something then the inspector did their job and I need to fix the issue.

If I really screw something up, I can always buy a boat.
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Everyone can add their input:

https://twitter.com/search/#firstworldproblems

:D

Someone else can do the Venn diagram.
 
I checked the ramp behind the Liberty Aircraft Museum at KPCW last weekend. It has four marked tie down spots along the north and east edges.
 
comanchepilot said:
yet another question - at most airports can an FAA ramper even get access - if you see one should you call the police and have them ejected.

Most ramp access documents limit access to "those present with permission, those holding ramp passes, law enforcement and airport authority employees in the lawful exercise of their duties. Thats what mine says - so if the FAA shows up I'll first ask them if they are lawfully present on the field and who they got permission from. . . .

That'll throw a monkey wrench into their day because like bureaucrats everywhere - they never ask permission cause thy know they'd get it. Yet, a lawful ramp check assumes that the FAA Guys have permission to be there . . .

its not like it would be denied, which is the reason they never ask for it.
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That would be great.
 
comanchepilot said:
yet another question - at most airports can an FAA ramper even get access - if you see one should you call the police and have them ejected.
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Never has been a problem. And good luck in getting the police to eject an FAA Inspector carrying credentials performing his duties.

comanchepilot said:
Most ramp access documents limit access to "those present with permission, those holding ramp passes, law enforcement and airport authority employees in the lawful exercise of their duties. Thats what mine says - so if the FAA shows up I'll first ask them if they are lawfully present on the field and who they got permission from. . . .
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So you don't believe Inspectors talk with Airport management or security?



comanchepilot said:
That'll throw a monkey wrench into their day because like bureaucrats everywhere - they never ask permission cause thy know they'd get it. Yet, a lawful ramp check assumes that the FAA Guys have permission to be there . . .

its not like it would be denied, which is the reason they never ask for it.
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I certainly hope you don't practice Aviation Law.
 
I have been "ramped" once, I was working with another A&P troubleshooting the charging system on a transient 172.

"Hi can we see your A&P certificates and photo ID?"
"Sure if you want, but we are working under the repair station's certificate, not ours."
"Oh, um....

Have a nice day"

They then wandered off and ramped one of our student pilots, who confused them when he didn't know what to show them or where all the paper work was. They asked him how he planed to act as PIC and he responded that he didn't, his instructor was due to land shortly. THEN they got it and once again wandered off, never to be seen by me again. Nice guys actually, just as operations folks they had limited knowledge on checking maintenance personnel, and once they established that the guy doing the preflight was not PIC they left him alone too.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Never has been a problem. And good luck in getting the police to eject an FAA Inspector carrying credentials performing his duties.



So you don't believe Inspectors talk with Airport management or security?





I certainly hope you don't practice Aviation Law.
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Nor criminal law.
 
RotorAndWing said:
So you don't believe Inspectors talk with Airport management or security?
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When the SEA FSDO sent 2 inspectors to inspect the Fairchild, they could not get thru the locked gate until I opened it for them.

No doubt they could have driven to the other side of the airport and gained permission from the airport administration but they would have been properly ID-ed. then given a gate card they would have been required to return it.

It was simply easier not to Pizz them off.
 
You mean the unicom freq that they will give to anybody who wants to visit your hangar?

Tom-D said:
When the SEA FSDO sent 2 inspectors to inspect the Fairchild, they could not get thru the locked gate until I opened it for them.

No doubt they could have driven to the other side of the airport and gained permission from the airport administration but they would have been properly ID-ed. then given a gate card they would have been required to return it.

It was simply easier not to Pizz them off.
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wabower said:
You mean the unicom freq that they will give to anybody who wants to visit your hangar?
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That's the one, but they didn't know it.

you been by lately ?
 
alaskaflyer said:
Police don't need probable cause to pull you over much less ask you for your license. Sigh.
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Yes, but they have no right to search the vehicle or your person, unless they see something specific that would give them probable cause.

Asking for your operating documents for the priviledge of operating a motor vehicle, is a completely different thing than a search of said vehicle or your person.

"I do not consent to a search." Period.
 
The wife of one of my co-workers is something of a big wig at the FAA in OKC. She recently told me that the FSDOs have been called to "start really cracking down on pilots." She went on to warn me that I should expect FSDOs to be much more in individual pilots' business. She didn't give any specifics, but was serious, and didn't act too happy about it. I got the feeling she was fairly disgusted about the orders they had recieved. Again, I'm not sure what all that means, but she certainly ain't a liar. Take it for what it's worth.
 
OkieFlyer said:
The wife of one of my co-workers is something of a big wig at the FAA in OKC. She recently told me that the FSDOs have been called to "start really cracking down on pilots." She went on to warn me that I should expect FSDOs to be much more in individual pilots' business. She didn't give any specifics, but was serious, and didn't act too happy about it. I got the feeling she was fairly disgusted about the orders they had recieved. Again, I'm not sure what all that means, but she certainly ain't a liar. Take it for what it's worth.
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Just keep your paper work in order and this will be a big waste of tax payers money.

They will draw in no more funds from fines, and the American people will throw a fit when they see how much is wasted on this and no money or very little recieved in the way of fines, and accident rates will not go down because of these actions.

More ramp checks does not equall less accidents.

Not enough inspectors to inspect every aircraft or pilot flying out of every little airport or strip in this country.

I guess they have nothing better to do.
 
I have posted this before, but oh well.

Been ramped 3 times in 50+ years of flying.
Well, actually they tried to ramp me.
(long, detailed version edited)
In each case I told the inspector I was busy and did not have time for him. That he could send me a letter 'requesting' an inspection and my attorney would work out the mutually agreeable details with his boss.
Each time I never got a letter and never heard anything more about it.


Now, the guys flying for a living have no choice (shrug) but to comply.
The rest of us still have tiny vestiges of freedom - but only as long as we exercise them.
For those good little citizens who don't understand why I don't just let "that nice man do his job", ask Bob Hoover how he feels about a 'ramp inspections'.
 
OkieFlyer said:
The wife of one of my co-workers is something of a big wig at the FAA in OKC. She recently told me that the FSDOs have been called to "start really cracking down on pilots." She went on to warn me that I should expect FSDOs to be much more in individual pilots' business. She didn't give any specifics, but was serious, and didn't act too happy about it. I got the feeling she was fairly disgusted about the orders they had recieved. Again, I'm not sure what all that means, but she certainly ain't a liar. Take it for what it's worth.
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Sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy. For the majority of us, this is a hobby. I can throw my money into the water as easily as I can throw it into the air.

Squeeze hard enough and people will walk away from aviation. Just like the people who will walk when fuel prices gets high enough...
 
OkieFlyer said:
The wife of one of my co-workers is something of a big wig at the FAA in OKC. She recently told me that the FSDOs have been called to "start really cracking down on pilots." She went on to warn me that I should expect FSDOs to be much more in individual pilots' business. She didn't give any specifics, but was serious, and didn't act too happy about it. I got the feeling she was fairly disgusted about the orders they had recieved. Again, I'm not sure what all that means, but she certainly ain't a liar. Take it for what it's worth.
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Being a former Inspector I still have many friends in the Agency. None of them I have spoken with has mentioned anything of the such that your friend's wife has spoke of. Sounds more like some mid level management wannabe trying to score points for herself.
 
It would be interesting to know how many owners and pilots are just hanging by a thread related to their aviation activities and ready to move on if/when another shoe falls. And that doesn't include all of us old geezers who may be hanging by an even thinner one than we know.;)

Marauder said:
Sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy. For the majority of us, this is a hobby. I can throw my money into the water as easily as I can throw it into the air.

Squeeze hard enough and people will walk away from aviation. Just like the people who will walk when fuel prices gets high enough...
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RotorAndWing said:
Being a former Inspector I still have many friends in the Agency. None of them I have spoken with has mentioned anything of the such that your friend's wife has spoke of. Sounds more like some mid level management wannabe trying to score points for herself.
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As I said, she didn't seem happy about it herself. I hope she's wrong. If your friends haven't said anything, that's great, but no need to speak ill of my friend. Frankly, that's quite rude of you. I was just relaying what she said. Doesn't really make a damn what she does, but she's head of her department here in OKC, and privy to a lot of info.
 
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