Ramp Checked

docmirror said:
Well, it sounds good but of course - it's incorrect. Any and all LEO need a probable cause to pull you over in your car and ask for your license. Further, a cop can stop you when you're walking down the street and 'ask' you for ID. You do not have to provide it. Nor can any LEO compel you to talk with them, or give them any info without probable cause.

Standing next to a Us registered aircraft, on a public or private airport does not meet the reasonable test for probable cause. They get away with it, because no one has yet seen fit to test it. Shock! No one who doesn't fly their own plane cares even remotely enough to challenge it. If/when it is challenged, eventually it will get before a just judge and will be ruled unconstitutional. For now, we just have to bend over and take it.

Google 'sovereignty', good reading.
Click to expand...

Police don't need probable cause to pull you over much less ask you for your license. Sigh.

And one could be reasonably sure that almost every type of administrative search at one time or another has had judicial review for Constitutional issues. Too many lawyers for that not to be true.
 
Last edited:
They can pull you over, but can't search you car without a warrant
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
There are a lot of yahoos out there that fly around without licenses, medicals, BFRs, etc. Maybe ramp checks catch some of those wackos.
Click to expand...
Now it makes sense why the inspectors hang out at little airports. :D
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
I'm actually ok with ramp checks as long as the inspector is reasonable. There are a lot of yahoos out there that fly around without licenses, medicals, BFRs, etc. Maybe ramp checks catch some of those wackos. I certainly hear them (or don't) all the time on CTAF at the airport I am based out of.
Click to expand...

That sounds good in theory, but how many of those people are actually getting caught? Is it enough to make a difference?

With most pilots claiming to have a small enough number of ramp checks in their flying career to count on one hand (and that number only seeming to be greater than 1 for the professionals in the group), it seems to me the answer is no.

The one time I was ramp checked, the inspector was very friendly, so I don't have an issue there. He actually caught a problem (airworthiness cert was ripped in two) and let me off with a warning, just said to tell the flying club officers to fix it when I got back home.
 
RotorAndWing said:
The first accident I worked as an Inspector was a guy that crashed his Cherokee after running out of fuel. No license, no medical, and a rejected application for a third class medical.
Click to expand...

Validity of ramp checks aside, that is a terrible example, no license or medical and the worst thing he did is run out of gas, legal pilots do that all the time.:lol:
 
RotorAndWing said:
You just confirmed what my presumption was, how is that "jumping to conclusions?"
Click to expand...

You said you had it figured out by my first post, at that point your presumption wasn't confirmed.

If you see a guy flying without his compass card, nail his ass to the floor. I'll help. But, why would you disturb someone not suspected of wrong doing.
 
bartmc said:
You said you had it figured out by my first post, at that point your presumption wasn't confirmed.

If you see a guy flying without his compass card, nail his ass to the floor. I'll help. But, why would you disturb someone not suspected of wrong doing.
Click to expand...

Why would you "nail his ass to the floor" for not having a compass card? Or is this just yet another way of spreading Internet falsehoods in order to enamor the readers?

And how would I know performing a ramp check if someone is in possession of required certificates if I don't ask to see them? Are you implying the FAA has no right to view a pilot's certificates?
 
RotorAndWing said:
Why would you "nail his ass to the floor" for not having a compass card? Or is this just yet another way of spreading Internet falsehoods in order to enamor the readers?

And how would I know performing a ramp check if someone is in possession of required certificates if I don't ask to see them? Are you implying the FAA has no right to view a pilot's certificates?
Click to expand...

No, it was my way of saying we're already regulated up the wazoo with things like: towbars must be in the plane if they're on the MEL, Compass correction cards, properly displayed airworthiness certificates, 2 sets of W&B data for wheel pants on/off,complying with ambiguous regulations for updating database cards etc... etc... etc... Forgive people, who've done nothing more to call attention to themselves other than fueling a plane, who are more than a little skeptical about the intentions of an FAA type walking up to them and asking for paperwork.

I had a genuine airworthiness concern with my aircraft, I called the FAA for clarification... won't be doing that again... NOTHING good can come from speaking with the FAA.

I'm sure the guys who got ramp checked at my airport were pleasant with the inspector that day. When they got back to the hangar, they weren't so pleasant.

I don't really care if they legally have the right to or not. They shouldn't.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Validity of ramp checks aside, that is a terrible example, no license or medical and the worst thing he did is run out of gas, legal pilots do that all the time.:lol:
Click to expand...

Terrible example? Not really, just showing that yes people do fly uncertified and with little training. On the accident in question I asked the pilot during the interview if he had checked his fuel on preflight and his response was "yes, I turned on the master and the gauges showed half tanks.". I asked if he looked in the tanks and he said "no, those gauges have always been accurate." ( he crashed right after takeoff due to fuel starvation)
 
RotorAndWing said:
If that last sentence doesn't leave one scratching their heads................
Click to expand...


What really should leave any pilot scratching their heads is why the FAA is allowed to be used as a weapon when pilots don't like each other. :dunno:

Most ramps checks are due to complaints by other pilots, not because the inspector suspected anything wrong. FBO's, pilots, student pilots, call the FAA and tattle like little girls is 3rd grade. The problem is the FAA believes the complaint before ANY evidence is presented.
 
Last edited:
Geico266 said:
What really should leave any pilot scratching their heads is why the FAA is allowed to be used as a weapon when pilots don't like each other. :dunno:

Most ramps checks are due to complaints by other pilots, not because the inspector suspected anything wrong.
Click to expand...

And what is the consequence to you if you haven't done anything wrong?
 
Geico266 said:
What really should leave any pilot scratching their heads is why the FAA is allowed to be used as a weapon when pilots don't like each other. :dunno:

Most ramps checks are due to complaints by other pilots, not because the inspector suspected anything wrong. FBO's, pilots, student pilots, call the FAA and tattle like little girls is 3rd grade. The problem is the FAA believes the complaint before ANY evidence is presented.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't you expect them to investigate if you complained about something? I can just see the thread on POA if someone complained about something and the FAA didn't do anything.

I had a conversation with an inspector who confided that his pet peeve is investigating noise complaints from the public. I asked if they had to investigate every complaint. He said yes because the next step would be that the person would complain to their congressperson, then the inspectors would get a call asking why they hadn't done anything.
 
Everskyward said:
Wouldn't you expect them to investigate if you complained about something? I can just see the thread on POA if someone complained about something and the FAA didn't do anything.
Click to expand...


If Charles Manson called? :no:

The point is, in my case (literally a federal case) the complainant was a well know violator of FAA rules and regulations.
 
Last edited:
HPNPilot1200 said:
I'm actually ok with ramp checks as long as the inspector is reasonable. There are a lot of yahoos out there that fly around without licenses, medicals, BFRs, etc. Maybe ramp checks catch some of those wackos. I certainly hear them (or don't) all the time on CTAF at the airport I am based out of.

Now get off my lawn!!! :yawn:
Click to expand...
on the other hand there are some faa inspectors who tag a plane with Q-tip props as unairworthy due to prop strike or mistake wax residue around rivets as corrosion.
 
Well-known by whom?

Geico266 said:
If Charles Manson called? :no:

The point is, in my case (literally a federal case) the complainant was a well know violator of FAA rules and regulations. After 3 years and several run in's with the inspector I did complain to my Congressman and he was fired due to past poor performance and a vendictive attitude towards experimental aircraft, sport pilot, LSA, and EAA Members.
Click to expand...
 
JHW said:
on the other hand there are some faa inspectors who tag a plane with Q-tip props as unairworthy due to prop strike or mistake wax residue around rivets as corrosion.
Click to expand...


Or think a foreign registered aircraft cannot be flown in the US. :mad2:
 
Geico266 said:
If Charles Manson called? :no:

The point is, in my case (literally a federal case) the complainant was a well know violator of FAA rules and regulations.
Click to expand...
I think Charles Manson violated more than FAA rules and regulations. Did someone make a complaint against you? I'm not sure what you are getting at.
 
wabower said:
Well-known by whom?
Click to expand...


The FAA Inspector that did the ramp check. ;)


There are way too many examples of the FAA inspectors being bullies, know it alls, and going WAY beyond their authority.
 
Last edited:
FAA: "Hi, I'm Steve from the FAA, investigating a noise complaint."
me: "Hi Steve, may I see your credentials please?"
FAA: "Here ya go."
Me: "Thanks." (hands back credentials)
FAA: "So, we've had a complaint at xx:xx on Sat from airport KXXX."
Me: (blank stare)
FAA: "Was that you?"
me: "Am I under arrest, is this a criminal matter?"
FAA: "Well, right now it's an administrative inquiry, there is no criminal complaint that I'm aware of."
Me: "Nice meeting you Steve, you have a nice day. I'm headed home now. Goodbye."
FAA: "Uh - wait, I would like you gather some information on this complaint."
Me: "Buh-bye, let me know if there is a criminal complaint."
 
Geico266 said:
What really should leave any pilot scratching their heads is why the FAA is allowed to be used as a weapon when pilots don't like each other. :dunno:

Most ramps checks are due to complaints by other pilots, not because the inspector suspected anything wrong. FBO's, pilots, student pilots, call the FAA and tattle like little girls is 3rd grade. The problem is the FAA believes the complaint before ANY evidence is presented.
Click to expand...

Sorry, there is actually very little truth to this.

Most ramp checks are a function of the Inspector's work program, not investigating complaints.

And when a complaint is made they can not be investigated if the complaint is anonymous and without merit, in other words if another pilot files the complaint then there is a process and the inspector will determine the the facts of the case. The statement " the FAA believes the complaint before ANY evidence is presented" is pure conjecture without merit.
 
docmirror said:
FAA: "Hi, I'm Steve from the FAA, investigating a noise complaint."
me: "Hi Steve, may I see your credentials please?"
FAA: "Here ya go."
Me: "Thanks." (hands back credentials)
FAA: "So, we've had a complaint at xx:xx on Sat from airport KXXX."
Me: (blank stare)
FAA: "Was that you?"
me: "Am I under arrest, is this a criminal matter?"
FAA: "Well, right now it's an administrative inquiry, there is no criminal complaint that I'm aware of."
Me: "Nice meeting you Steve, you have a nice day. I'm headed home now. Goodbye."
FAA: "Uh - wait, I would like you gather some information on this complaint."
Me: "Buh-bye, let me know if there is a criminal complaint."
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll play along.

FAA: "OK Sir, no problem, I'll be on my way. However I will be sending you a letter of investigation into the matter and you will be given a chance to answer. However if you decide not to answer I will continue my investigation without you answer and proceed which may or may not elevate into an enforcement action based upon our findings.". "And please understand that this is not a criminal case but is administrative, I would suggest you understand the difference before proceeding".
 
Everskyward said:
Wouldn't you expect them to investigate if you complained about something? I can just see the thread on POA if someone complained about something and the FAA didn't do anything.

I had a conversation with an inspector who confided that his pet peeve is investigating noise complaints from the public. I asked if they had to investigate every complaint. He said yes because the next step would be that the person would complain to their congressperson, then the inspectors would get a call asking why they hadn't done anything.
Click to expand...

All complaints must be investigated. Half of the time when someone called in as son as I asked for a name and address they would ask if they could just make the complaint anonymous. I would explain no, they have to give me a name, mailing address and phone number. After that they usually hang up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top