Question to ATC guys/gals

[denverpilot]

BTW, this is very similar to my initial call to Ground, "Podunk Ground, Skyhawk 2345C on the East Ramp ready to taxi with Delta." About 25% of the time (rough guess), I still get "45C confirm you have Delta."

He had to turn the stereo down.

(That's actually not a joke. I did a tower tour at KBJC nearly two decades ago, and the music playing on a cheap FM broadcast radio off to the side quietly was chosen by the Local Controller every day. The day I was there it was on the Rock station, but they regaled me with whining about the one controller who liked Country. I suspect there's no cheap FM broadcast radio up there in the fancy new tower, today... but who knows. Haven't toured that one. The other "fun" of that day was that out of the blue one of the controllers kept getting tongue-tied trying to record the ATIS, which was a task he'd done a million and a half times over the course of his career... on attempt number four or five he just sat down in the chair nearby and started laughing at himself.)

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Use the plane's ID, like for a Cherokee it'd be PA28, Cessna 402 would be CE-402, etc. Yours would be CE-337. I think Cessnas are CE but may be just C.

None of your examples are correct. All type designators are four characters, for one, and PA28 ain't one of 'em. That's just Piper's model/series number, the type designators often differ from the manufacturer's model number. The M20R I fly has a designator of M20P, for example.

For ATC purposes:
Cherokee 140, 180, Warrior, Archer are P28A
Cherokee 235, Pathfinder, Dakota, etc are P28B
Arrow is P28R, etc....

Cessna 402 is C402
Skymaster is C336 or C337 as appropriate

The current official list is here: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/Order_7360.1_.pdf

Assuming you are serious, that wouldn't work. The point is that they ignore my call sign, which includes the type. I don't think "Cessna 337 47C" is a good call sign.

Call them the way you are. When they ask your type, you say "Skymaster 47C is a Charlie 3 3 7."

Well, my world is the northeast, mostly

Well there's your problem.

And as I said, once they finally input you into the system, it's fine from that point on, the problem is that it sometimes takes several sectors until they do it. It's not just the type, BTW, it's destination too.

You're probably being put in by the first controller as a local flight, so the next guy doesn't have much clue what you're doing. This frequently happens between two facilities I transition on a regular basis - The squawk is the same, but it's still a local squawk and the facility I'm calling up doesn't know much about me. In this case, the controllers at the other facility are REALLY good, and they usually tell me to "Contact xxx Approach 1yy.zz and give them your type and destination" so I know they're missing it.

One trick you can use is to climb above 10,000 (unless you're near a Bravo) so that you can call Center for FF, IME they'll generally put you into their computer so that everyone can see the flight plan. Of course, out east they love to tell you to descend so they can pawn you off on a TRACON instead.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

You are still not getting it. The issue is not how to identify the type, it's how to save the question "Say type". My idea was to use "Skyhawk 2345C" on my initial callup, but unfortunately it's not working well.

No, it isn't.
When I call into a new sector (e.g. after being handed off to them), "Podunk Approach, Skyhawk 2345C level 6500", about half the time they understand that if my call sign is "Skyhawk", then I am a Skyhawk and don't ask me about it. But unfortunately, it's far from foolproof.

What you're missing is that "Skyhawk" is a call sign, not an aircraft type in the context the controller needs.

It should help to say that, but even with a type that common, not all controllers will know the correct designator. Lots of controllers aren't even pilots, and many of those probably don't really give a rip what the type designator of a little spam can is 'cuz it doesn't affect them the way knowing what a B772 is and that it must have x miles/minutes of in-trail separation from y weight class of airplane for wake turbulence on the PODUNK THREE arrival into Big Metro International.

So... There's nothing you can do to avoid the "say type" question the first time. However, if you tell them "Skyhawk 47C is a Charlie 1 7 2" then they'll enter that in the computer and the computer will take it and you at least have a chance that the next guy will get it. If you say "Skyhawk is a Skyhawk" the controller will probably roll his eyes and move on to more important tasks and let the next guy worry about it... And then you get "say type" from the next guy until you run into one that knows your type and enters it and you're good for the rest of the flight.

Try giving them the correct 4-character type designator from the official list linked above next time, and I bet that works out much better for you.

Wait a minute... It's a PA28, isn't it? No wonder. Try P28A next time.

 

[mscard88]

oh boy

 

[flyingron]

Type designators are at MOST 4 characters. There's plenty of two and three letter ones. It really gets fun with WACOs where there are something like 60 manufacturer models mapped into ten different FAA designators. My neighbor has an AGC8 which is WACC but it's often just easier to file it as WACO (the only time he ever files is the one day a year he enters the SFRA).

 

[coloradobluesky]

I flew my Husky up to Alaska and Canadian ATC thought I was a "Fairchld Husky". I told them to look up HUSK in their ICAO identifier book and he said "we don't have an ICAO identifier book". I landed, ordered fuel and they asked me to come up to the tower and I did. When I got there I asked if I was going to clear customs. He said "you just did". We chatted a bit and thanked them for their hospitality and went on my way!

 

[FlySince9]

Sounds like a secret squirrel problem then.

<---- ejects....again.

hope you remembered to repack your chute...

 

[eb87f]

I think the issue of being re-asked comes from his first post where he says that when asked his type he says "skymaster" instead of his real code. Since the controller asked for type because he didn't recognize skymaster in the first place the controller probably gives up and leaves it blank. So he gets asked again when he gets handed off. Like was said many times already, to avoid the repeated queries about type he should answer with C337 (or whatever his real code is) and NOT skymaster. If he really wants to get it all in on the first call he'd have to say "Skymaster 12345, request FF, type is C337"

 

[mscard88]

If he really wants to get it all in on the first call he'd have to say "Skymaster 12345, request FF, type is C337"

Yeah we've been trying since his post to basically do that.

 

[RotorDude]

Yeah we've been trying since his post to basically do that.

And I've been trying since my second post to explain that "Skymaster" was just a bad example, and you should assume it's "Skyhawk" instead. I can see that some newbie controllers may not know that Skymaster is C337, but I can't imagine anyone not knowing that Skyhawk is C172.

 

[Palmpilot]

And I've been trying since my second post to explain that "Skymaster" was just a bad example, and you should assume it's "Skyhawk" instead. I can see that some newbie controllers may not know that Skymaster is C337, but I can't imagine anyone not knowing that Skyhawk is C172.

So I've lost track: Do you actually get asked this question when you identify yourself as a Skyhawk?

 

[RotorDude]

So I've lost track: Do you actually get asked this question when you identify yourself as a Skyhawk?

Replace "Skymaster" by "Skyhawk" in the OP to get the point of this thread.
By using "Skymaster" as my original example, I unfortunately caused many people to go off on a wild goose chase, and couldn't get them to refocus.

 

[Velocity173]

So you're identifying yourself as a Skymaster (C337) on the initial check in but you're changing your type to Skyhawk (C172) on subsequent handoffs? Can't do that. Problem solved.

 

[RotorDude]

So you're identifying yourself as a Skymaster (C337) on the initial check in but you're changing your type to Skyhawk (C172) on subsequent handoffs? Can't do that. Problem solved.

Got it. Thank you!

 

[mscard88]

Yea only took 3 pages.

 

[RotorDude]

Yea only took 3 pages.

This thread reminds me of Cap'n Ron's sticky advice for the checkride, how (not) to answer the DPE's question about a pencil.

 

[mscard88]

This thread reminds me of Cap'n Ron's sticky advice for the checkride, how (not) to answer the DPE's question about a pencil.

Now you've done it! Now we'll spend 5 pages on pencils!

 

[denverpilot]

I get complimented on my pencils.

 

[mscard88]

I get complimented on my pencils.

Why? Are they always ready and sharp, clean eraser? Yellow or colors?

 

[denverpilot]

Why? Are they always ready and sharp, clean eraser? Yellow or colors?

Mechanical, but 0.9mm so they don't break as easy.

 

[mscard88]

Oh yeah, the fine tip ones. I see why you get compliments now.

 

[denverpilot]

Oh yeah, the fine tip ones. I see why you get compliments now.

Haha.. nope. Big thick and fat. 0.7mm is the usual size for mechanical pencils. The fine ones are 0.5mm. 0.9mm is usually only available by special order or a good pencil shop.

 

[mscard88]

I see, I haven't been to recurrent pencil class yet so I'm a little rusty.

 

[denverpilot]

I see, I haven't been to recurrent pencil class yet so I'm a little rusty.

A rusty pencil is no good. Sometimes liberal application of light lube can loosen up the crud and you can clean it up, but often it means death for the pencil.

 

[mscard88]

A rusty pencil is no good. Sometimes liberal application of light lube can loosen up the crud and you can clean it up, but often it means death for the pencil.

WD 40 work? Mine is usually pretty dull too, never sharpen it, so I'm guilty of neglecting it and probably unworthy to have one to begin with.