Question to ATC guys/gals

Everskyward said:
Yes, but you don't hear people saying "Skymaster 123AB, a C-337, blah blah" on initial callup. That would seem like the only way to do it.
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In his case, that's exactly what he should do, especially if it is an aircraft type not widely known...and in his experience, that should be obvious now.
 
RotorDude said:
Assume that it was a Skyhawk (i.e. very common). I just used Skymaster as (an unfortunate) example.
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Then use "C172" - THAT is the accepted FAA TYPE DESIGNATOR
 
Everskyward said:
Yes, but you don't hear people saying "Skymaster 123AB, a C-337, blah blah" on initial callup. That would seem like the only way to do it.
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My initial call-up for FF does include "AA5" as type since ATC does not uncommonly ask for same.
 
wrbix said:
Then use "C172" - THAT is the accepted FAA TYPE DESIGNATOR
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You are still not getting it. The issue is not how to identify the type, it's how to save the question "Say type". My idea was to use "Skyhawk 2345C" on my initial callup, but unfortunately it's not working well.
 
RotorDude said:
You are still not getting it. The issue is not how to identify the type, it's how to save the question "Say type". My idea was to use "Skyhawk 2345C" on my initial callup, but unfortunately it's not working well.
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.....and it won't - isn't it clear yet that ATC wants your TYPE, in addition to your TAIL NUMBER?
Sure, they could go to the FAA data base to look it up...but really?
 
wrbix said:
.....and it won't - isn't it clear yet that ATC wants your TYPE, in addition to your TAIL NUMBER?
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No, it isn't.
When I call into a new sector (e.g. after being handed off to them), "Podunk Approach, Skyhawk 2345C level 6500", about half the time they understand that if my call sign is "Skyhawk", then I am a Skyhawk and don't ask me about it. But unfortunately, it's far from foolproof.
 
You either need to say it together with your call sign in the initial call-up, hope that ATC knows what a "Skyhawk" is, or have them ask the question. I don't see what the big deal is. When I flew VFR I called it a "Cessna" no matter what kind of single Cessna it was. It didn't bother me to have ATC ask "say type".
 
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RotorDude said:
No, it isn't.
When I call into a new sector (e.g. after being handed off to them), "Podunk Approach, Skyhawk 2345C level 6500", about half the time they understand that if my call sign is "Skyhawk", then I am a Skyhawk and don't ask me about it. But unfortunately, it's far from foolproof.
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If you're using Skyhawk 2345C, there's no reason why the controller would be confused. Especially if you've gotten a handoff to another controller, "type" should be relayed in the handoff. If it's an automated handoff which 99% of the time it is, it's on the strip.

So, yeah, not sure why the confusion with the controllers you're dealing with.
 
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Everskyward said:
You either need to say it together with your call sign in the initial call-up, hope that ATC knows what a "Skyhawk" is, or have then ask the question. I don't see what the big deal is. When I flew VFR I called it a "Cessna" no matter what kind of single Cessna it was. It didn't bother me to have ATC ask "say type".
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I agree, and as I noted in my OP, that's exactly what I used to do for many years. It's just that recently I had this idea of how to save bandwidth, and was surprised that it's not working well. When it happened to me several times on two flights today, I said to myself I'll ask on PoA on that new ATC sub-forum for advice or ideas. Didn't expect the question to be so hard to explain. :)
 
Velocity173 said:
If you're using Skyhawk 2345C, there's no reason why the controller would be confused. Especially if you've gotten a handoff to another controller, "type" is required to be relayed in the handoff. If it's an automated handoff which 99% of the time it is, it's on the strip.

So, yeah, not sure why the confusion with the controllers you're dealing with.
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Logically I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, that's not my experience (in the northeast, at least). I think they just don't immediately input the strip into the computer, so the next sector has to (often) start from scratch (this is all with the same squawk code), and it keeps being bounced from sector to sector.
The same problem arises re "Say destination", BTW, and I don't have an easy trick for that one.
 
I'm no longer here..
 
RotorDude said:
Well, my real type is even more common, so less of a brain-leap to jot down. And as I mentioned to Tim, there is no way I can use type numbers in the call sign. So what you are saying is that I just have to live with it, I guess.
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Okay (sighs) one more time and then I'm really done trying to help out. The question would be easier to answer if we knew what your "real type" was instead of beating around the bush with the Skymaster example. ATC can input letters AND numbers in the computer to describe your type aircraft.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Okay (sighs) one more time and then I'm really done trying to help out. The question would be easier to answer if we knew what your "real type" was instead of beating around the bush with the Skymaster example. ATC can input letters AND numbers in the computer to describe your type aircraft.
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Don't...aww too late.......:D
 
RotorDude said:
I agree, and as I noted in my OP, that's exactly what I used to do for many years. It's just that recently I had this idea of how to save bandwidth, and was surprised that it's not working well. When it happened to me several times on two flights today, I said to myself I'll ask on PoA on that new ATC sub-forum for advice or ideas. Didn't expect the question to be so hard to explain. :)
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You've been reading too much POA! :p
 
Timbeck2 said:
Okay (sighs) one more time and then I'm really done trying to help out. The question would be easier to answer if we knew what your "real type" was instead of beating around the bush with the Skymaster example. ATC can input letters AND numbers in the computer to describe your type aircraft.
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OK, assume my real type is Skyhawk C-172. How would you address my question of how to eliminate the question "Say type"? My idea/theory was that once I start using "Skyhawk 3456C" as my call sign on my initial callup, that would take care of it, but it doesn't.
 
You're going to have to pick another bush...that one has a ditch around it dude. If I knew your "real type" I could help you but I can't by using assumptions. If you're flying a no crap secret squirrel aircraft then you probably shouldn't be asking the question here.

I tried man...I tried.
 
Timbeck2 said:
You're going to have to pick another bush...that one has a ditch around it dude. If I knew your "real type" I could help you but I can't by using assumptions. If you're flying a no crap secret squirrel aircraft then you probably shouldn't be asking the question here.

I tried man...I tried.
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I don't think it has anything to do with any particular type. Apparently not all his info is being relayed during intra-facility handoffs and the receiving controller has no idea about type and destination of the OP.
 
Two thoughts:

- You're fighting a computer. The computer wants a type and the controller must enter it. Some controllers know airplane names some don't.

- The system is retarded. FAA already has a a database that correlates tail number to type. All they have to do is use it in ATC. It doesn't have to force populate for the rare case of a tail number change, but it could do a lookup and pre-populate the last known type as soon as the tail number is entered. But that's not going to happen in the mess of old non-integrated technology in use today.

Enjoy the bad system engineering and design flaws.
 
Timbeck2 said:
You're going to have to pick another bush...that one has a ditch around it dude. If I knew your "real type" I could help you but I can't by using assumptions. If you're flying a no crap secret squirrel aircraft then you probably shouldn't be asking the question here.

I tried man...I tried.
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Sent a PM.
 
Well... it took two pages of posts for no reason.

Saying "Skyhawk 234C" or "Skymaster 456D" should take care of the identifying type issue if the controller recognizes the type.

If it doesn't, oh well. Nice try.

That's the long and short of it.
 
I get called a TBM from time to time and sometimes Navy. Even with the proper type filed (NAVI) controllers get creative with what I am. It was worse when it was N145. I was often mistaken for some sort of warbird.

For a long time coming into the DC class B I'd get handed of from Balitomre to Dulles and magically turn into a Navaho. After a few times I inquired. Turns out that Baltimore on VFR popups into the airspace would just put a single letter for the type. C for Cessna or B for Beech or P for Piper worked pretty well. N left some head scratching to the next controller.
 
I just say...."Boooonanza".....and I get "cleared to land", each time. :D
 
ircphoenix said:
Well... it took two pages of posts for no reason.

Saying "Skyhawk 234C" or "Skymaster 456D" should take care of the identifying type issue if the controller recognizes the type.

If it doesn't, oh well. Nice try.

That's the long and short of it.
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I can't imagine any controller not knowing that "Skyhawk" is a C-172, under any circumstances, so it's not an issue of not recognizing (any extremely common type). And yet, about half the time they still ask, "Say type?". So I was wondering if there is anything else that could be done. Apparently not, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.
BTW, this is very similar to my initial call to Ground, "Podunk Ground, Skyhawk 2345C on the East Ramp ready to taxi with Delta." About 25% of the time (rough guess), I still get "45C confirm you have Delta."
 
If he calls your 337 a Skyhawk, tell him "Hold on, I'll shutdown the rear engine."
 
This happens to me all of be time. Even at my home airport where I talk to the same guys every day. "Stationair N929CS". Say your type. "C206". Thank you
 
RotorDude said:
Assume that it was a Skyhawk (i.e. very common). I just used Skymaster as (an unfortunate) example.
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I was never asked what a Skyhawk was when I was flying them. I do get asked what a Skycatcher is fairly often, and I tell them it's a Cessna 162. I don't see it as a problem.
 
RotorDude said:
I can't imagine any controller not knowing that "Skyhawk" is a C-172, under any circumstances, so it's not an issue of not recognizing (any extremely common type). And yet, about half the time they still ask, "Say type?". So I was wondering if there is anything else that could be done. Apparently not, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.
BTW, this is very similar to my initial call to Ground, "Podunk Ground, Skyhawk 2345C on the East Ramp ready to taxi with Delta." About 25% of the time (rough guess), I still get "45C confirm you have Delta."
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"We live in an imperfect world."
 
I would just say "Skyhawk xxxxx" they might miss the type on initial call since they are focused more on getting your callsign correct and finding where you are on the scope. It happens.
 
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