question about ifr to kosh

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dennyleeb

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I always go up from the southeast but have a question about the change they have made to the preferred arrival

PMM PMM333063 GAYLE V510 FAH Direct

I know the PMM333 is the 333 radial like always but what is the 063 after that?

Is it miles on the 333 before turning for Gayle?
 
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TMetzinger said:
That's PMM 333 radial at 063 DME.
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ok

so does that mean i follow the 333 for 63 (would be on the v510) then proceed to GAYLE on the 510?

sorry just making sure i have it right

that would match previous years as before it went pmm333 to v510 to fah

gayle is on the 510
 
It would really depend on the IMC. The stuff last year I would not have wanted to penetrate.
 
a thousand word answer:

1zfn23l.jpg
 
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how do you make these pics smaller?!

Look back to my first post, I changed it to the LE chart.
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
Sho nuff right about that, it should go through BULLY. Did I enter it wrong?
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no it is the same on mine

i have always gone through bully

however if i drag a point to 63 miles from pmm to the 510 it goes through bully
 
Tried it on a few others, FF is not showing fix/rad/nm as I would think it should.

Might be a TC vs MC thing?
 
dennyleeb said:
I always go up from the southeast but have a question about the change they have made to the preferred arrival

PMM PMM333063 GAYLE V510 FAH Direct

I know the PMM333 is the 333 radial like always but what is the 063 after that?

Is it miles on the 333 before turning for Gayle?
Click to expand...

The format is known as FIX/RADIAL/DISTANCE; 063 is distance in nautical miles.

While contemplating that route you may find the status of Falls VOR to be of interest.
 
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roncachamp said:
The format is known as FIX/RADIAL/DISTANCE; 063 is distance in nautical miles.

While contemplating that route you may find the status of Falls VOR to be of interest.
Click to expand...

the falls vor can still be used as a gps waypoint which is what i normally do
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Tried it on a few others, FF is not showing fix/rad/nm as I would think it should.

Might be a TC vs MC thing?
Click to expand...

In this case, True = Magnetic. PMM VORTAC is set to zero magnetic variation, the actual magnetic variation there is almost 5 degrees west.
 
Henning said:
Not known to be the best glider, I think the comment is regarding the risk exposure to save $70.
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At 12-14k feet I can glide to a shore except for about 10 minutes of the flight. Not to mention the much heavier traffic on the west side which is also a risk. They usually give me straight in on 27. I will take the chances in my new 182 over a 30-60 yr old twin any day. In all with the much lighter traffic I think the risk is smaller coming over the lake. Let's remember it is the end of july not January.
 
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The lake is still pretty damned cold in July. I heard a guy ditch in the lake and drown one year coming home from Oshkosh and they ended up not more than a few miles offshore.
 
Even if I could fly IFR, I doubt I'd do it at Oshkosh. It seems like half the aircraft flying in are NORDO and haven't flown since last year's Oshkosh. I prefer to have my mark IIs outside looking for aircraft to dodge.
 
steingar said:
Even if I could fly IFR, I doubt I'd do it at Oshkosh. It seems like half the aircraft flying in are NORDO and haven't flown since last year's Oshkosh. I prefer to have my mark IIs outside looking for aircraft to dodge.
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They may act like they are NORDO but they really aren't. If the field is open for VFR arrivals, you'll just get dumped on final for 27 with everybody coming around from downwind (Keep it inside the blue water tower!). You'll need to be looking at that point. At least you skip flying in the train all the way from RIPON.
 
steingar said:
Even if I could fly IFR, I doubt I'd do it at Oshkosh. It seems like half the aircraft flying in are NORDO and haven't flown since last year's Oshkosh. I prefer to have my mark IIs outside looking for aircraft to dodge.
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It has always been great going in IFR.

Please don't tell me you have made time for 12,600 post on here and not time to get your instrument rating.
 
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The old preferred route was PMM then PMM 333 to intercept V510 FAH. The new route is the same because the PMM 333 radial at 63 DME is approximately the point where the PMM 333 radial intercepts V510. GAYLE is the next intersection on V510. Remember this is the 333 radial, not a magnetic course of 333. The PMM VOR was calibrated to align to magnetic north back in 1965 when the isogonic zero line of variation passed over the location of the VOR. Now the variation has shifted to 5 degrees east. So the PMM 333 radial now has a magnetic course of 333 - 5 east = 328 degrees Magnetic.

I had written an article in IFR magazine that described entering the old route by defining a GNS530W user waypoint at the intersection of PMM 333 radial and the MKG 296 radial. There were two ways to file the route, one was by using the Lattitude Longitude of the intersection and the other was to file it using a radial distance off of PMM. In the olden days, with our VOR-DME KNS80 RNAV unit we would file waypoints using the format VORrrrddd where VOR was the ID of the VOR, rrr was the radial, and ddd was the DME distance.
 
John Collins said:
The old preferred route was PMM then PMM 333 to intercept V510 FAH. The new route is the same because the PMM 333 radial at 63 DME is approximately the point where the PMM 333 radial intercepts V510. GAYLE is the next intersection on V510. Remember this is the 333 radial, not a magnetic course of 333. The PMM VOR was calibrated to align to magnetic north back in 1965 when the isogonic zero line of variation passed over the location of the VOR. Now the variation has shifted to 5 degrees east. So the PMM 333 radial now has a magnetic course of 333 - 5 east = 328 degrees Magnetic
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Five degrees west.
 
flyingron said:
The lake is still pretty damned cold in July. I heard a guy ditch in the lake and drown one year coming home from Oshkosh and they ended up not more than a few miles offshore.
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are you talking about the two guys in the american legend, it had nothing to do with water temp, they did not have life jackets and the owner who did not make it, did not know how to swim
 
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Yes, I'd just transitioned Gary's airspace and was still on the tower freq when I heard the Mayday call that they were going down.
 
flyingron said:
Yes, I'd just transitioned Gary's airspace and was still on the tower freq when I heard the Mayday call that they were going down.
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But...but...but singles don't lose an engine hardly ever, a twin has twice the chances of losing an engine. The odds say stay over the water since way fewer planes crash into the water.
 
flyingron said:
Yes, I'd just transitioned Gary's airspace and was still on the tower freq when I heard the Mayday call that they were going down.
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have you ever read the series of events that lead to that crash, pretty crazy

they were flying to ohio over the lake without lifejackets, they were stuck on a taxiway at kosh and standing up on the side trying to look for the hold up, the only thing to hold onto on top of the aircraft was the fuel cap the got undone in that process, the ATP told the pilot to look at the fuel and he said his computer was telling them they had plenty but when you looked at the side indicators one was empty and the other close, the pilot chose to believe the fuel totalizer, once they ran out of fuel they ditched and survived, the pilot did not know how to swim and drowned

flying over water without a 5 dollar life jacket is just crazy to me (even if a great swimmer)
 
Henning said:
But...but...but singles don't lose an engine hardly ever, a twin has twice the chances of losing an engine. The odds say stay over the water since way fewer planes crash into the water.
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they all quit when they are out of gas FYI

here is proof even a very old 310 will crash in water when it is out of gas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqsOyyc0f-c

any questions?
 
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If you haven't been in the water in Lake Michigan during the summer (Even July or August), you don't have any idea how cold it can be. It can vary, as well. One week, it can feel like bath water it is so warm. If there has been a storm in the last several days, the cold deeper water gets churned up, and it can be so cold it sucks the air right out of your lungs. I worked at a marina in Muskegon Michigan for a couple of summers when I was in college.
 
dennyleeb said:
they all quit when they are out of gas FYI

here is proof even a very old 310 will crash in water when it is out of gas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqsOyyc0f-c

any questions?
Click to expand...


Keeping gas in them is definitely the best way to keep them running, but every year we lose a few planes into the Great Lakes to other problems. No need to get defensive about it, I don't care what decision you make or if you live to tomorrow or not, heck, no guaranty you won't die today anyway.
 
Henning said:
Keeping gas in them is definitely the best way to keep them running, but every year we lose a few planes into the Great Lakes to other problems. No need to get defensive about it, I don't care what decision you make or if you live to tomorrow or not, heck, no guaranty you won't die today anyway.
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You always just have something smart ass to say

example "don't care if you live tomorrow or not"

I don't like you.... Please do not respond to any of my post
 
dennyleeb said:
You always just have something smart ass to say

example "don't care if you live tomorrow or not"

I don't like you.... Please do not respond to any of my post
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Well, you were trying to be a smart ass, I'm just better at it.

You can ignore me if you please, however, the response was not presented for you, you aren't making decisions, your mind is made up. The response was for others who also read here. Your decision is flawed as is the logic behind it unless the logic was to save a few dollars. As I said, I really don't care when and how you die, I firmly believe we should all have the right to die from our own bad decisions; no worries. I don't believe that one has the right to influence others decisions unchecked.

The fact is that every year people die flying into the GL, some still have fuel in them, your comment makes it sound like that is all there is too it is keep fuel in them and they keep flying. Your point was smart assed on top of being stupid and delusional and you got mad when I pointed it out, whaaa.
 
Ever write a post you just know won't go well, but you do it anyway...

What is the deal with over water, I just don't get it? Someone will avoid flying over water, but think nothing of flying over swamps, dense urban area, and dense forest. Or anything at night.

At least with water in the daytime you have an excellent chance of getting it down without serious injury. You can also easily buy overwater equipment and should. Plus with some altitude, if you can't reach shore, maybe you can reach a boat.

I was just out over the Gulf about 75 miles from shore. I felt great, daytime, good altitude for gliding, I could always see at least one boat, oil platform, etc. in gliding range.

IFR, with equipment, no problem.
 
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