I've passed a few of them. It is the worst pain a person can experience. It is that moment when find out that what you previously thought was a 10 on your 1-10 pain scale was really just a 6! Getting a medical will be very problematic. I was able to get my medical because it had been over 10 years since my last kidney stone and the AME stated he would approve since that length of time indicated any remaining stones were stable and not moving. I think you are in for a long road to get your medical.
Yeah, about that much of a pain scale change here Hard to even comprehend how bad it was, even just 1 day later. They weren’t sure if it was a burst appendix or kidney stone. They asked if I had testicle pain on top of everything else, and after the blinding pain started to come down, I realized that it was a yes.
You did check in as John Doe at the ER, right?
Kiss your medical goodbye.
I did not. I hobbled in the front door and could barely write my name and info down.
It's not as dramatic as Ed makes it to be.
But that you now are known to produce stones does change things.
On the AOPA board, kidney stones and what to do about the medical has been thoroughly discussed. Head over there to do some background reading and ask Bruce clarification questions.
Will do, thank you.
As I recall when I was researching this issue previously, you will need to show scans free of kidney stones in order to get a medical. If you have additional stones on the scan then you will need to have them broken up and removed which may be at your own expense since it is not a medical necessity. Alternatively, you will need to get a urologist to sign off that any remaining stones are stable, not moving, and not in danger of passing. This will be a very lengthy and expensive process, and you still might get a denial. Might want to consider flying LSA and hope for medical reform to eliminate the 3rd class medical.
I just might have to do that. Not financially endowed currently unfortunately.
Not necessarily, although Nick never did get back in the air.
I hope you have lots of friends named Benjamin, it's going to take many such friends to get back in the air.
Lincolns maybe… I don’t even live in the same neighborhood as Benjamin.
A work colleague, who is also a private pilot, never drank water during the day. He didn't want to leave his desk for anything. Especially not for something like a refreshment. Bad for his productivity, he thought. So no water during the day.
He got kidney stones.
I could probably stand to drink more water. Never that bad though, I like breaks too much.
This is another example of where the aviation medical is a farce. Counter productive.
So, he had a stone and was in agony within a few minutes and possible could have had airplane control problems. That is typical for the first stone. The FAA medical he possessed would in no way have prevented that!
Now, he is more aware of what they are like (as I am) and will have more time to know they are coming and to get on the ground. The first one, you have no clue. You just know you are dying. The next ones, you get more warning because your body is more attuned to the problem. You will have much more time - you will notice, and associate those twinges of pain with a kidney stone way ahead of how you did the first time. So a kidney stone in all probability will never be an aviation problem for you.
BUT - the FAA says you can't fly now!!
They have it totally back-as-wards!
I mean, I can see why they would want to stop people from having kidney stones… that pain was unbearable even just sitting still. But I had never even thought of it and I have a 3rd class medical and could have very well been flying and that was fine with the FAA. Even though I’m going to get this checked out even farther personally no matter what so that I don’t end up having it happen during flight or even just anywhere remote without help, the FAA is going to make me from now on and decide if I can or not. :/
As others have mentioned, keeping well hydrated is essential if you have a history of producing stones. After passing several stones over a short time period, I began drinking much more water throughout the day and haven't passed a stone in about 13 years.
Thanks for the input, I could stand to be better hydrated. Trying to not drink myself sick with water and drinking more than ‘thirsty’ is a wide margin. How much do you drink a day?
Well said. Even if I were to pass another stone, I would know what it was and would have plenty of time to safely land the plane before the pain became problematic. It is the first stone that would be the most dangerous, and no issue getting a medical before the first stone. I am perfectly capable of determining for myself if I am safe to fly. Let's hope medical reform gets passed and eliminates the 3rd class medical!
If the 3rd class medical comes out, would I still be subject to special issuance/denial/etc? I mean, like I said above, no matter what I’m getting this looked at and analyzed and changing to make it never happen again, but I’d rather that decision be in my own hands instead of the FAA.
Mistake.
Per Dr. Chien, once you get a CT scan, you need to keep getting CT scans to show that you are stone free.
A KUB is less sensitive and is more likely to show you as stoneless.
http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources...ion-and-Conditions/Urology/Kidney-Stones.aspx
Great. I was in so much pain, then a bit out of it after the drugs that I just wanted the problem solved and I didn’t care how they found it or looked at it. I was scared too, nothing has ever hurt that badly.
I've passed a bunch.
Never excruciating. Though admittedly not pleasant.
Phase 1 is kidney to bladder - that's a dull cramping pain that's usually covered by a single Percocet. Sometimes preceded or accompanied by a little blood in the urine.
Within a week or two Phase 2 is bladder to external world. Sharper pain that comes and goes as things move, but still usually in single Percocet territory for me.
My record without intervention is a 9mm (!).
Admittedly, maybe I've never had a total blockage - THAT may be where the excruciatiing pain comes from.
In any case, if the stone is calcium oxalate - the most common by far - there are foods to avoid, though current advice is not to cut back on calcium. Tea, peanut butter and dark green vegetables are among the things to avoid in excess.
I also take Potassium Citrate tablets 3x per day. That seems to cut down on the frequency of the stones and makes them fragment into much smaller pieces when blasted.
And hydrate like crazy. It's rare I'm without my CamelBack! And Percocet!
Incidentally, I'm stone free right now. But I let my medical lapse because the annual Special Issuances were leading to excessive tests and treatment and worry.
The doc said 3-5 days and gave me a doctor’s note for 3 to be off work and not be fueling/towing planes or driving 45 mins each way to work on these drugs. The doctor also said it was probably due to too much calcium in my diet, which is interesting. I don’t really drink tea, or dark green leafy stuff very often, but I do have PBJ’s frequently enough. How much do you drink a day out of curiosity? Also that picture is terrifying O_O
I've had two (declared on medical already) and the second was worse. You've already "passed it" during the painful part. When it exits your bladder you may not even feel it, where you'd think it would hurt the most.
My only suggestion to anyone who gets one, don't be manly and tough it out. If it hasn't passed in one day, go get it blasted out (lithotripsy). I suffered for 5 days, popping Vicodin like candy with little result, and ended up with a kidney infection that the doc said was hours away from a blood infection, which is deadly, quickly.
And for what it's worth, I know a woman that's had two kids naturally and said the stones hurt a lot more.
I was told to call the urologist tomorrow and schedule an appointment, but they said 3-5 days for it to get out of my system. The weird thing is that I’m throwing up more than anything else, the pain isn’t that bad. They have me on…Hydrocodone, for pain. I can still feel twings here and there but on the whole it feels manageable.
My KS story - got it the day after my PP checkride…
What a terrible time to have it happen. I am glad I made it to the ER and they took me fast enough to get help, I don’t know what I would’ve done, it was honestly enough to make me pass out if I didn’t get helped in the next 5 minutes. At least it felt that way.
Thank you for the writeup, I am going to be making an appointment with the urologist anyway and doing these things as they happen is what I was looking to do instead of chasing bad reporting or the wrong tests. If I had known not to have a CT scan before the fact… but hindsight is 20/20.
If I wanted to get a CT scan to actually see if there was any problem coming or not for my own health aside from the FAA, would that be automatically reported or would I have to go in John Doe style to take care of my personal health visits? Also do I have to report this now or within 90 days or just on the next medical?
Kidney stone? Not a problem. See your AME. Follow his/her advice. Get the stone(s) removed. The post removal (I had to have real surgery, not lithotripsy) Dr report to go to the FAA should include information as the size, location, probability of happening again, success of removing and a view other reports.
I also had testing done to find out what the stone was made of so I could work to prevent it from happening again. Basically pee in a jar for 24 hours and they test to see what is in it. (yuck)
I have a second class medical, and was not flying for a month until I cleared by the FAA.
Probably SI for a year, year and a half, then back to regular medical. If there are no more stones than maybe not even an SI.
For me, soft drinks was the problem. I haven't had a soft drink for something like 3 years now. Lot of joint pain is gone, and I no longer get any stern warnings from my AME peeing in the cup.
Fortunately the CT scan said it was small enough to pass so that it wouldn’t be an issue most likely. I can’t afford to fly right now anyway, much less pay the medical bills from that visit on my own (mom’s insurance more than thankfully). Working on catching the stone.
I'm really sorry to hear this OD, but don't give up yet. A friend of mine had one several years ago and he echoed the same opinion: "worst pain in his life". Three years ago he bought a Diamond DA40 and is flying regularly.
Thank you John. The only thing more scary than the pain coming out of nowhere and being so intense was realizing that I might not fly again due to it while laying there with an IV in me. Good to see that there’s more than just doom and gloom at least.
A few things you should know:
1. You made a mistake by having the CT scan done - but it isn't like you knew better when you were drugged up, and the ER docs have no idea that the FAA has their head up their ass. Because of the CT scan, KUB is no longer an option for certification
2. You will need another CT scan that shows no more stones for a clear medical. If you can't get an all clear, you'll need two CT scans 90 days apart that show no movement of the stone(s), and then you'll get a year by year Special Issuance.
3. Until your medical expires, you are in self certification land. Enjoy it while you can - if you find yourself in my situation, where you can't get an all clear CT or a CT without movement, these will be the last years of flying for you, unless...
4. If you can't get an all clear, DO NOT REAPPLY FOR YOUR MEDICAL. Let it lapse, and at least you retain Sport Pilot rights (this is where I am right now).
I'd recommend Doc Bruce when it comes time to renew if you can't get the clear CT. He has some advice for 99% of people that will likely help you fly again.
Thank you sir, will follow the advice.
The first one was 2006 and was the worst because, like another poster said, you don't know what's happening. With the next 2 I knew. No Dr except for the first one ... and no mention of it on the FAA medical or the associated red tape and cost.
Not proposing that you do that. But that's what I did and it worked for me.
Nervous about omitting anything from the FAA. I’m scared enough of it happening to me again even on the ground that I’m going to try to have myself checked out thoroughly if I can afford it through insurance. Do not want.
I started carrying a 1 liter water bottle around so I can know how much I did or didn't drink during the day.
Been through ½ gallon today while I’ve been awake. How much do you go through a day?
The best way to avoid stones is to drink water frequently throughout the day and empty your bladder frequently. You're doing a good job if your stream loses its color and looks like water.
I kind of feel like the first stone bored a passage for the second. They were about the same size but the second one wasn't nearly as debilitating. For me the most painful times were while it was moving through the kidney and pushing into the bladder--basically when it was causing the most restriction to flow / most pressure. Finally shooting it out into a screened funnel was a most joyous occasion--relatively no pain.
The two stones were about a week apart and close to 2 years before I got my PPL so we put it down as a single occurrence with no indication of current stones. You'll have to prove you're stone-free either by time or by scans.
Oof. I don’t even want to think about a 2nd one. Thanks for your experience.
