PPL solo X-country... am I allowed to plan my own route?

Then do it. Go do 1500 miles for your first cross country. No one really cares where you fly to. Your obviously smarter than everyone who has been there before you. I just wish your passengers knew how bad of a pilot you are.

Azblackbird, your most likely a troll, if not your a bad representation of a pilot. Please don't carry passengers.
 
Explorin said:
Then do it. Go do 1500 miles for your first cross country. No one really cares where you fly to. Your obviously smarter than everyone who has been there before you. I just wish your passengers knew how bad of a pilot you are.
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So if I want to spend an entire day doing nothing but flying with stops for fuel, a little sightseeing and bite to eat here and there, somehow that makes me a bad pilot. LOL... you're killing me dude.:rolleyes:
 
First off, your not a pilot. You have yet to solo.

You have no experience and your over confident. You have a serious case of igottagetthereitus brewing and your going to kill yourself and your passengers. Your a top dog in your business and you think your hot stuff. your nothing but a bug smasher in the air.

When you actually decide to take flying seriously, I hope you wise up. You fit the profile of people that try to kill instructors on base to final.

with your attitude I bet, and hoping most instructors will say they don't want anything to do with you.
 
azblackbird said:
LOL... let me get this straight. Just because I want to do a 1500 mile loop for some of my X-countries, I'm being unsafe and am destined to become an NTSB statistic. How about we look at it this way... all I would really be doing is thirty $100 hamburger runs in a day rather than in a year. Are my odds better now?
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No, it's not JUST because you want to do something ambitious.

It's that you don't listen to anybody.

The FAA certainly has labels for that, but I'm going to be significantly more blunt: more money than brains.

Overconfidence has killed much smarter people than you.
 
We all have goals and ambitions. For some folks that might be being the first one to the scene of an accident. Who are we to dash someone's dreams?
 
azblackbird said:
Yea, I'm beginning to see that. No biggie, I'll put something together that's not so many miles and will still be fun and scenic.
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My first solo XC was KRNO to KHTH, a trip I had already done with my CFI. My second one (the long one) was KRNO-KSVE-KWMC-KRNO, a distance of 318nm. I had never been to WMC, but in all cases it was simply following highway 395, railroad tracks or Interstate 80. There is no ay my CFI would ever let any student cross the Sierras on the solo XC and no way he would let us go any further than he was willing to drive.

azblackbird said:
LOL... let me get this straight. Just because I want to do a 1500 mile loop for some of my X-countries, I'm being unsafe and am destined to become an NTSB statistic. How about we look at it this way... all I would really be doing is thirty $100 hamburger runs in a day rather than in a year. Are my odds better now?
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What are you training in that can go 1500 miles in a day? You aren't going to do that in a 172.
 
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azblackbird said:
LOL... let me get this straight. Just because I want to do a 1500 mile loop for some of my X-countries, I'm being unsafe and am destined to become an NTSB statistic. How about we look at it this way... all I would really be doing is thirty $100 hamburger runs in a day rather than in a year. Are my odds better now?
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It's not just the number of hours that gives you experience. It's the quality of the hours. You want to meet a 50hr requirement? Fine... just slow flight your XC. Yeah, that'll give you the "experience" you need. Sigh.

You're heading down a dangerous path before you even start.
 
As a practical matter, if you are renting, the FBO probably won't let you take the plane more than a day.

I don't know if there's a FAR saying no nighttime solo for student pilots, but seems like there is. So now you're restricted to daylight hours.

Your instructor has to endorse your logbook with your specific planned destinations, and he won't do that until he reviews all your planning, which must be based on most recent weather forecast. So plan an hour of ground with your instructor before departing, although I suppose you could do that predawn if your instructor is accommodating with an early meeting time.

As a further practical matter, my body is weary after six hours in a small single engine plane.

So my advice is schedule the plane for the whole day and plan flights that get you out and back in 6 flying hours. That gives you plenty of time so you don't feel rushed, plenty of margin at the end of the day, plenty of time to rest and recharge between legs, and plenty of margin in case you catch a tailwind and get home in only 4.9 hrs. I would think you could at least get out of state with that much time. Lather, rinse, repeat and you get your 10 hours.
 
azblackbird said:
So if I want to spend an entire day doing nothing but flying with stops for fuel, a little sightseeing and bite to eat here and there, somehow that makes me a bad pilot. LOL... you're killing me dude.:rolleyes:
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Many have already tried to say very politely that building experience with a methodical approach - slowly expanding your limits is the right way to go.

If you do get through your flight training, and solo and do a couple of short cross countries first, I have a feeling it will give you a better appreciation of what is involved in all the facets of the flight - from planning to take off to touchdown. I suspect you will come away feeling slightly different from how you do now.
 
To the OP: I prefer the type of flying you aspire to. In the past 12 months I've flown Ireland to Sweden in a single engine fixed gear, through the Balkans, Alps(including mountain gliding, not in the past year though), Germany, Austria, Greek Islands, etc. I am not instrument rated so I know something about VFR touring. I own my own plane.

It's great you already know what type of flying you want to do. What is not great is that your attitude could prevent your achieving your goal. As someone who does this type of flying, please believe me, you simply don't understand what is involved:

Weather is tricky. CAVOK low wind days are rare for stretches of thousands of miles. So for this type of travel, you need to be proficient in low visibility conditions (legally VFR but de facto IMC) and proficient in crosswind landings AT LEAST to the demonstrated capability of the plane.

So many other things can and do go wrong. There is just so much to learn and you're still a student!

I remember my solo cross countries as a student. I found them demanding. I learned a lot. There is no way that turning them prematurely into 1000 milers would have been helpful. Read what almost everyone posting here has tried to explain. It's great to see the ambition, but your overconfidence will increase your risks, interfere with the learning process, and turn off the people whose help you need to succeed.

In summary: your goal (long x-countries) is worthy, but you need to get further along in your training.

Just imagine to yourself an obese couch potato who walks into the gym and starts boasting about the marathon he's training for. "Maybe start with a 5K?" the trainer asks. "Hell no! Why would I waste my time with that!" AZCOUCHPOTATO answers.

That's kinda how you're coming across in pilot terms.
 
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azblackbird said:
LOL... let me get this straight. Just because I want to do a 1500 mile loop for some of my X-countries, I'm being unsafe and am destined to become an NTSB statistic. How about we look at it this way... all I would really be doing is thirty $100 hamburger runs in a day rather than in a year. Are my odds better now?
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Not some, your first cross country. THAT is the issue most are taking with your line of thinking from what I see


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My first solo XC was Jeffco-Cheyenne-Sterling-Jeffco and the long XC was Jeffco-Syndey-Goodland-Jeffco. All the students in the 141 school did those. After that if you still needed solo XC time to round out the training, you could go where you wanted. I went to Ft. Morgan it appears looking at the log book.

Amusingly, I used to book the plane for XC at the FBO opening time in the morning. The girl at the desk said that one of the other instructors could review my stuff. I said, no problem, my instructor would do it. She said, he doesn't come in that early. I told her I'd wake him up. At this point I had to explain that Dale and I had been sharing a condo for the past five months. In fact, he signed me off the night before, confident that I would know enough not to launch if the weather was bad (unlikely in Colorado anyhow).
 
Forget about writing PPL test, I don't think he has even started learning yet, he mentioned he has some time in a plane in the right seat, may be some experience flying straight and level too. But he has a killer attitude, pun intended

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this was my xc. luckily there was only moderate turbulence for the legs highlited in magenta.

upload_2017-3-26_10-37-13.png


leading up to this xc, I had mentioned to my CFI the possibility of making Myrtle Beach part of my flight. he said something to the effect of "it's not out of the question, here's the flight I'd recommend, let's see how things pan out when the time comes". looking back, I'm glad I did it his way and saved the 'longer' xc for post PPL. I guess that's why he's the CFI and I was the student.
 
THE FIVE HAZARDOUS ATTITUDES

1. Anti-Authority:
"Don't tell me."
This attitude is found in people who do not like anyone telling them what to do. In a sense, they are saying, "No one can tell me what to do." They may be resentful of having someone tell them what to do, or may regard rules, regulations, and procedures as silly or unnecessary. However, it is always your prerogative to question authority if you feel it is in error.

2. Impulsivity:
"Do it quickly."
This is the attitude of people who frequently feel the need to do something, anything, immediately. They do not stop to think about what they are about to do; they do not select the best alternative, and they do the first thing that comes to mind.

3. Invulnerability:
"It won't happen to me."
Many people feel that accidents happen to others, but never to them. They know accidents can happen, and they know that anyone can be affected. They never really feel or believe that they will be personally involved. Pilots who think this way are more likely to take chances and increase risk.

4. Macho:
"I can do it."
Pilots who are always trying to prove that they are better than anyone else are thinking, "I can do it –I'll show them." Pilots with this type of attitude will try to prove themselves by taking risks in order to impress others. While this pattern is thought to be a male characteristic, women are equally susceptible.

5. Resignation:
"What's the use?"
Pilots who think, "What's the use?" do not see themselves as being able to make a great deal of difference in what happens to them. When things go well, the pilot is apt to think that it is good luck. When things go badly, the pilot may feel that someone is out to get me, or attribute it to bad luck. The pilot will leave the action to others, for better or worse. Sometimes, such pilots will even go along with unreasonable requests just to be a "nice guy."
 
azblackbird said:
You don't think I plan a long motorcycle ride the same way? Same planning, just different vehicles. Of course I don't have to worry about falling out of the sky on a motorcycle, but the semantics are basically the same.
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Wow. No.
 
iflyvfr said:
THE FIVE HAZARDOUS ATTITUDES

1. Anti-Authority:
"Don't tell me."
This attitude is found in people who do not like anyone telling them what to do. In a sense, they are saying, "No one can tell me what to do." They may be resentful of having someone tell them what to do, or may regard rules, regulations, and procedures as silly or unnecessary. However, it is always your prerogative to question authority if you feel it is in error.

2. Impulsivity:
"Do it quickly."
This is the attitude of people who frequently feel the need to do something, anything, immediately. They do not stop to think about what they are about to do; they do not select the best alternative, and they do the first thing that comes to mind.

3. Invulnerability:
"It won't happen to me."
Many people feel that accidents happen to others, but never to them. They know accidents can happen, and they know that anyone can be affected. They never really feel or believe that they will be personally involved. Pilots who think this way are more likely to take chances and increase risk.

4. Macho:
"I can do it."
Pilots who are always trying to prove that they are better than anyone else are thinking, "I can do it –I'll show them." Pilots with this type of attitude will try to prove themselves by taking risks in order to impress others. While this pattern is thought to be a male characteristic, women are equally susceptible.

5. Resignation:
"What's the use?"
Pilots who think, "What's the use?" do not see themselves as being able to make a great deal of difference in what happens to them. When things go well, the pilot is apt to think that it is good luck. When things go badly, the pilot may feel that someone is out to get me, or attribute it to bad luck. The pilot will leave the action to others, for better or worse. Sometimes, such pilots will even go along with unreasonable requests just to be a "nice guy."
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He's got 4/5, so 80%, eh?
 
azblackbird said:
Yea, I'm beginning to see that. No biggie, I'll put something together that's not so many miles and will still be fun and scenic.
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Fun and scenic is not the purpose of the solo long country PPL training flight. If you don't learn what IS the purpose, you will be a danger.

I recommend you find a DPE to bribe and get your license now before wasting your time with lessons that will only hold you back, or don't even bother getting the license, just steal a plane from the rental company.
 
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My instructors, and I think most all will be the same, would not allow a student to solo to a field they had not flown to with them.
 
azblackbird said:
How's that? Isn't training these days supposed to be scenario based? <snip> One of my scenarios would be that I'm a businessman with clients in various cities and wish to drop off an updated part to their widget they previously purchased from me.
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You should probably also pretend to get your commercial rating for that one, unless you can prove that flying was only incidental to the delivery. ;)
 
Lachlan said:
You should probably also pretend to get your commercial rating for that one, unless you can prove that flying was only incidental to the delivery. ;)
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yup. aztrollbird
 
Salty said:
My instructors, and I think most all will be the same, would not allow a student to solo to a field they had not flown to with them.
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hhmmm, not sure about that. I don't think I flew to either of the fields on my xc previously with my cfi. lemme double check that tho but I'm pretty sure.
 
eman1200 said:
hhmmm, not sure about that. I don't think I flew to either of the fields on my xc previously with my cfi. lemme double check that tho but I'm pretty sure.
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Sorry, that was only the first solo x-country. I did fly to a new airport on my long.I remember the chief instructor asking about it and kind of wagging his head that I hand't been there, but they let me go.
 
Salty said:
Fun and scenic is not the purpose of the solo long country PPL training flight. If you don't learn what IS the purpose, you will be a danger.

I recommend you find a DPE to bribe and get your license now before wasting your time with lessons that will only hold you back, or don't even bother getting the license, just steal a plane from the rental company.
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heck just buy a plane with a chute and AOA... u don't need no CFI
 
Salty said:
My instructors, and I think most all will be the same, would not allow a student to solo to a field they had not flown to with them.
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Mine did. My first solo XC was one we had done together, and the first leg of my long XC was also one we had done. The second leg (to Winnemucca, NV) was new to me, but it was over flat terrain, on a perfectly clear January day (pressure 30.38, sky clear, no wind, temperature 12F... I still have my flight log). We discussed the route, Wx etc for at least an hour. Coming back was simply a matter of following I-80.
 
Here's my solo xcountry. Now granted it wasn't quite 1500 nauticals...my CFI was like 'go for it!' ;)
upload_2017-3-26_11-50-38.png
 

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Salty said:
My instructors, and I think most all will be the same, would not allow a student to solo to a field they had not flown to with them.
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Not a problem for my instructor. We reviewed the plan and he approved the airports that were new to me after a little discussion of anything special about them. I flew to new airports on two of my three solo cross country flights.

A student needs to be ready to go to new airports after the cert is earned. Best to demonstrate it along the way.
 
YOU might be able to do it. But keep in mind, FBOs that rent planes have liablity concerns (they have had accidents and been sued). Instructors are also cautious and dont want to be sued. As soon as you start doing things out of the ordinary, you open yourself up for lawsuits. Even if they don't get sued, they dont want their students doing risky things.

Think about this. If you HAD to take a motorcycle safety class to ride your motorcyle (because of some law), you wouldn't expect to get to ride around a track at 160mph. You'd have to ride a 250 and do all the basic stuff all the other classmates have to do. Its just the way it works.

Just find an instructor and an FBO, start taking lessons and do what he tells you to. Get your license, buy a plane and you'll be on your own. Flying has lots of risky things you can do, once you get your PPL. Before PPL, its designed to be asafeascanbe. And it is. Student flying with instructor is statistically very safe. Nanny state? Mabe. But its the way things work, like it or not. You'll have a lot of fun getting your PPL.

If want some thrills, you could take some aerobatics instruction.
 
Salty said:
My instructors, and I think most all will be the same, would not allow a student to solo to a field they had not flown to with them.
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I remember my CFI turning me loose on the 3 leg XC without flying it with him beforehand, but I think he was pretty loose compared to most.
 
coloradobluesky said:
YOU might be able to do it. But keep in mind, FBOs that rent planes have liablity concerns (they have had accidents and been sued). Instructors are also cautious and dont want to be sued. As soon as you start doing things out of the ordinary, you open yourself up for lawsuits. Even if they don't get sued, they dont want their students doing risky things.

Think about this. If you HAD to take a motorcycle safety class to ride your motorcyle (because of some law), you wouldn't expect to get to ride around a track at 160mph. You'd have to ride a 250 and do all the basic stuff all the other classmates have to do. Its just the way it works.

Just find an instructor and an FBO, start taking lessons and do what he tells you to. Get your license, buy a plane and you'll be on your own. Flying has lots of risky things you can do, once you get your PPL. Before PPL, its designed to be asafeascanbe. And it is. Student flying with instructor is statistically very safe. Nanny state? Mabe. But its the way things work, like it or not. You'll have a lot of fun getting your PPL.

If want some thrills, you could take some aerobatics instruction.
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It's sensible that the CFI is responsible for you during your training. You want him/her to be accountable right? Well that means his judgement is on the line until you pass your checkride. This isn't about lawsuits. It's about CFIs exercising that judgement. Poor judgement on their part, as demonstrated by a student pilot getting into trouble on an overly ambitious cross country will lose him his certificate, aka his livelihood. That's not nanny state. That's just roles and responsibilities playing out as they should, so that you learn and don't get killed in the process. It's a pretty good system.


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gsengle said:
It's sensible that the CFI is responsible for you during your training. You want him/her to be accountable right? Well that means his judgement is on the line until you pass your checkride. This isn't about lawsuits. It's about CFIs exercising that judgement. Poor judgement on their part, as demonstrated by a student pilot getting into trouble on an overly ambitious cross country will lose him his certificate, aka his livelihood. That's not nanny state. That's just roles and responsibilities playing out as they should, so that you learn and don't get killed in the process. It's a pretty good system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Some schools also carry a liability for their students for up to five years after they have received their pilot certificate. Basically if the pilot gets into a mishap over something that should have been taught by the flight school and litigation insues, they can come back on the school and say "didn't you teach him/her about this?" Yea. It's a possible occurrence.
 
azblackbird said:
So if I want to spend an entire day doing nothing but flying with stops for fuel, a little sightseeing and bite to eat here and there, somehow that makes me a bad pilot. LOL... you're killing me dude.:rolleyes:
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Wanting that doesn't make you a bad pilot.
Deciding that it's a good idea for a student pilot to spend in excess of 10 hours flying in a day, and arguing that position to others who have more experience in the matter, are good indicators of hazardous attitudes, however.
 
There seems to be an epidemic of anti expertise thinking these days... I'm not a fan.


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gsengle said:
There seems to be an epidemic of anti expertise thinking these days... I'm not a fan.


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And a lack of personal responsibility and accountability. Not a good combo.
 
flyingron said:
My first solo XC was Jeffco-Cheyenne-Sterling-Jeffco and the long XC was Jeffco-Syndey-Goodland-Jeffco. All the students in the 141 school did those. After that if you still needed solo XC time to round out the training, you could go where you wanted. I went to Ft. Morgan it appears looking at the log book.

Amusingly, I used to book the plane for XC at the FBO opening time in the morning. The girl at the desk said that one of the other instructors could review my stuff. I said, no problem, my instructor would do it. She said, he doesn't come in that early. I told her I'd wake him up. At this point I had to explain that Dale and I had been sharing a condo for the past five months. In fact, he signed me off the night before, confident that I would know enough not to launch if the weather was bad (unlikely in Colorado anyhow).
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Sidney's lost lots of flights from the Front Range area - Cabelas opened 2 stores in Colorado. One up at 114th & I25, the other due south just north of Castle Rock.
 
gsengle said:
There seems to be an epidemic of anti expertise thinking these days... I'm not a fan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I feel it's the other way around. Everybody thinks they are the expert and love to dish out the advice. When it comes time to offer your advice, you can speak until you're blue in the face, but it rarely does any good.
 
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