Planes and hurricanes

francisco collazos

francisco collazos

Pre-takeoff checklist
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ciscovet
So i've been thinking of purchasing a plane and of course I do not have a hangar nor do I anticipate i will have one in the near future due to lack of hangars in my area. But I was thinking and I was curious what people do here in Florida when a hurricane is coming? Do you fly the plane out of state, try to get into someones' hangar or tie the plane down really good and sweat it out.
 
I'm in a similar boat here, moving to FL soon and planning to buy a plane and although I'm on a few hangar waitlists I don't expect to get in one for at least 2-3 years and I've thought of this scenario. And even with a hangar it can be an issue... Personally I will have quite a bit of flexibility and my thought was to be very hands on monitoring hurricanes and not hesitating to bolt if it appears like it could be serious. I know that's very difficult for some people's schedules, etc. and could result in "false alarms" but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Insurance policies that pay you to move it sound pretty appealing to me and something I'll look into, so thanks @Tools
 
The best thing to do is live where I do. I have very good natural disaster karma.

Years on the coast, no hurricanes.
Years in the Midwest, no tornadoes.
Years in CA, no earthquakes.
Years by rivers, no flooding.

DO NOT go out to eat with me… the worlds WORST service karma. I’ll sum it up with FIVE Starbucks that have been out of COFFEE!

The policies don’t pay a lot, but covered gas as I recall. Might be a negotiable thing.
 
My policy covers 50% of direct costs (fuel, lodging, food) up to $1000 to leave in advance of a Hurricane. There are specific definitions of when you can leave. Think it needs to be a warning, not a watch and a Hurricane vs a Tropical Storm. I've never used it, rode out one on tiedowns and have a hangar now.
 
Years ago when we were threatened with a hurricane I thought escape by plane was a great option ...
 
I don't move my plane or my boat. That's why I have insurance.
 
Ya, one of those things where “restrictions” don’t bother me, goin anyway. Find out later I get a few sheckles, all the better. Don’t have to go very far to get out of tear your hangar down intensity.

I don’t keep more than a laundry basket full of NOT REPLACABLE in Gulf Shores, it’ll fit in a plane and I drive junk cars. Some would say junk planes, but I like ‘em!
 
Hurricane Expense Coverage
If you have purchased Physical Damage Coverage and the U. S. National Weather service issues a hurricane watch or warning for the area where your aircraft is principally based, and the aircraft is relocated to avoid damage, we will pay reasonable costs incurred provided: The aircraft is relocated to another airport which is at least 100 nautical miles away from its principal base and not under a hurricane watch or warning. Original documentation and receipts are furnished within 90 days from the warning or watch date for all costs to be reimbursed. Reasonable cost reimbursement will be limited to 50% of the direct operating expenses incurred for fuel, hangar or tie down, and the cost of a ferry pilot meeting the requirements of the Pilot Qualification Amendment. The reimbursement is further limited to $1,000 per aircraft for any one hurricane and $1,000 per aircraft per policy year. The deductible will not apply.
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My policy is through Old Republic and has the above clause. Basically, you're covered for up to $1000 of expenses per year. Sounds like Hang 4 has the same policy.

In Pensacola, the local aero clubs (and military, for that matter) generally hangared what they could and then flew the rest out of the hurricane path.
 
My policy paid about $200 if I flew it out. Problem with that is logistics. If you have your house already prepped, vehicle loaded and a spouse to drive to where you took the plane then the only thing you need to figure out is where to move the plane (hurricanes tend to be unpredictable).

If you don't have those logistics sorted, then you just like we did during Michael and prioritize. In our case the airplane was pretty far down the list of things to do.
 
francisco collazos said:
Do you fly the plane out of state, try to get into someones' hangar or tie the plane down really good and sweat it out.
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Outside of FL on the GOM coast, most leave their aircraft unless they're located in a surge prone area or other unique type of reason. Usually by the time there is a consensus where the storm may actually go, most will prioritize prepping their business, house, and boat before worrying about their aircraft. The ones I've helped move out of harms way were mostly in surge areas with a few that did it for other reasons. About the only ones that moved aircraft/boats regularly out of the storms path were commercial helicopter and marine operators so that they could get the people back offshore to the rigs after the storm passed.
 
Tools said:
The best thing to do is live where I do. I have very good natural disaster karma.

Years on the coast, no hurricanes.
Years in the Midwest, no tornadoes.
Years in CA, no earthquakes.
Years by rivers, no flooding.
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Wow...that is very good karma.

I spent a little over a year in Florida and one hurricane.
I went to Kansas to interview for a job, 4 days, one tornado.
Never felt any earthquakes or tremors in California but felt many in Alaska. Also heard them.
I flight instructed at Ona, WV (V12) for 18 months next to the Mud River. It flooded the holler, completely covering the runway in about 5 feet of water. All planes towed to safety, except one poor C-150.

Even here in the high desert one time we got the remnants of a hurricane. Only light winds and rain, but still unusual.
 
And people think its odd that I prefer to live in interior New England where we get a lot of snow, but very few actual natural disasters.

Makes no sense that people think living somewhere where we get a few snow events a year with 12+ inches is worse than somewhere that regularly gets hit with hurricanes
 
You know they’re coming… tornadoes, earthquakes not so much. Tsunami warnings prolly aren’t where they could be.

Flooding somewhere in the middle. But you can live on a hill.

For a guy who’s never seen much, this stuff scares the crap out of me. Nature’s force is AWESOME. Seen some crazy stuff at sea that firmly implanted that.

I don’t mind defying gravity, but I don’t tempt much else!
 
The problem with moving is decision timeline. If you live in Florida, it is not uncommon to have 2 or 3 scares a year. I define a scare as being inside the forecast cone 2-3 days out. However, the cones constantly change, so it is also not uncommon to be dead center in the cone 24-48 hours out, and have it turn into a non-event. HOWEVER, the outer bands of bad weather which arrive 24 hours before the actual storm cover a much wider area and can be very nasty.

If you decide to relocate, you need to do it before the outer bands arrive, or you are putting yourself at more risk trying to fly through them. So you really need to relocate about 48 hours prior. But at that point, many of those relocations will be unnecessary, since the cone will shift. Conversely, you may be outside of the cone 48 hours prior, only for the cone to shift suddenly after the outer bands have already arrived and it's too late to move.

The actual destructive path of the hurricane is not that wide. Not nearly as wide as the cones. Statistically speaking, you will get a lot of near misses for every hit. Near misses are typically minor events, with high winds and rain but only minor damage. I have been in the Tampa area for 21 years and have seen a least a dozen near misses, with zero damage thus far other than some branches.

In a nutshell, your odds are better riding it out in a hangar than trying to dodge the storm. Most hangars will withstand all but a direct hit. Hurricane Ian was a hugely destructive storm, but most airfields in the direct path stood up well. https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/florida-airports-assess-damages-associated-with-hurricane-ian/

Tied down aircraft are much more vulnerable. Flying debris can do a lot of damage, as can poorly tied down aircraft. Last year the outer band of Hurricane Ian on the gulf coast destroyed a bunch of planes at Fort Lauderdale, 100 miles away. If you are tied down, your best bet is to cultivate relationships so you have an emergency hangar option.
 
Ed Haywood said:
The problem with moving is decision timeline. If you live in Florida, it is not uncommon to have 2 or 3 scares a year. I define a scare as being inside the forecast cone 2-3 days out. However, the cones constantly change, so it is also not uncommon to be dead center in the cone 24-48 hours out, and have it turn into a non-event. HOWEVER, the outer bands of bad weather which arrive 24 hours before the actual storm cover a much wider area and can be very nasty.

If you decide to relocate, you need to do it before the outer bands arrive, or you are putting yourself at more risk trying to fly through them. So you really need to relocate about 48 hours prior. But at that point, many of those relocations will be unnecessary, since the cone will shift. Conversely, you may be outside of the cone 48 hours prior, only for the cone to shift suddenly after the outer bands have already arrived and it's too late to move.

The actual destructive path of the hurricane is not that wide. Not nearly as wide as the cones. Statistically speaking, you will get a lot of near misses for every hit. Near misses are typically minor events, with high winds and rain but only minor damage. I have been in the Tampa area for 21 years and have seen a least a dozen near misses, with zero damage thus far other than some branches.

In a nutshell, your odds are better riding it out in a hangar than trying to dodge the storm. Most hangars will withstand all but a direct hit. Hurricane Ian was a hugely destructive storm, but most airfields in the direct path stood up well. https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/florida-airports-assess-damages-associated-with-hurricane-ian/

Tied down aircraft are much more vulnerable. Flying debris can do a lot of damage, as can poorly tied down aircraft. Last year the outer band of Hurricane Ian on the gulf coast destroyed a bunch of planes at Fort Lauderdale, 100 miles away. If you are tied down, your best bet is to cultivate relationships so you have an emergency hangar option.
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Yeah, I'm actually way more concerned with storm surge than wind as both my hangar and my house (which includes my boat) are in flood zones. And of course the current cone shows it on the worst possible track for Tampa due to the CCW rotation for tropical cyclones and the geographic layout of Tampa Bay which is basically on a SW to NE line from the Gulf meaning a storm that tracks anywhere from Apalachicola to just north of Tampa will push a lot of water into the bay right to where I live on a canal in Apollo Beach. Anything higher than a 10 ft surge at high tide will most likely flood my house for sure. Not sure about my hangar at Tampa Exec but being the airport is next to a bypass canal a high surge coupled with a high tide won't be good.
 
I've lived in Florida all my life so i've been around may hurricanes. I remember years ago I read that the chances of major storms going up the state from west to east was extremely rare. No many years later it seems much more likely. I remember driving through three hurricanes one year as I was relocating from Florida to Ohio. The worst one I was ever in was one that hit the Caribbean island i was at. Lost power for two weeks. Rarely are they a problem for me since I live about 15 miles inland on a hill but every year people rush to the stores as soon as hurricane land fall is even mentioned. Now if you live on the coast you got a big problem. I did get yelled at by my ex for not taking one seriously one year but I pretty much had my mother, son and girlfriend at the time. My son and mom stayed up late and I went to bed. He and her thoroughly enjoyed it and now weirdly enough he likes to watch the weather
 
Our little airplanes and hurricanes don't mix well.

My wife's cousin once dodged a storm and moved his airplane from St Simon to Charlotte, only to find out the storm was heading Charleston->Charlotte. So he went toward Alabama and the storm turned right and missed Charlotte. But his insurance did pay him to keep it out of the way.
 
tsts4 said:
Yeah, I'm actually way more concerned with storm surge than wind as both my hangar and my house (which includes my boat) are in flood zones. And of course the current cone shows it on the worst possible track for Tampa due to the CCW rotation for tropical cyclones and the geographic layout of Tampa Bay which is basically on a SW to NE line from the Gulf meaning a storm that tracks anywhere from Apalachicola to just north of Tampa will push a lot of water into the bay right to where I live on a canal in Apollo Beach. Anything higher than a 10 ft surge at high tide will most likely flood my house for sure. Not sure about my hangar at Tampa Exec but being the airport is next to a bypass canal a high surge coupled with a high tide won't be good.
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I live right near US41 in Gibsonton (road along the eastern Tampa bay), that exact scenario is my biggest concern.
 
If we have to evacuate for a storm, the plane will stay and we’ll drive. Our hangar is only five years old, so it’s built to the current codes and rated for 150 MPH wind.
 
farangutan said:
I live right near US41 in Gibsonton (road along the eastern Tampa bay), that exact scenario is my biggest concern.
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I drive thru Gibtown on 41 to and from MacDill M-F. As I posted above I've written off my plane in this scenario. Ironically between the plane, my house and my boat, the boat is most likely to survive as it sits on a lift and I can raise it above all but the worst surge levels. Our plan is to top off vehicle and gen gas, pack go-bags, kill power to the dock and be ready to bug out if the water starts rising above the seawall. We stay storm prepped year-round (alcohol, batteries, bottled water, non-perishable food, etc) so nothing to do there so we avoid the panic chaos at the hardware/grocery stores.
 
We stay prepped too, only worry is the flooding because I usually don't buy flood insurance. I have it now so about 5% less worried. Our plane is hangared in Zephyrhills far enough inland that I rarely think about relocating unless I want to make it a family trip.
 
Zeldman said:
Wow...that is very good karma.

I spent a little over a year in Florida and one hurricane.
I went to Kansas to interview for a job, 4 days, one tornado.
Never felt any earthquakes or tremors in California but felt many in Alaska. Also heard them.
I flight instructed at Ona, WV (V12) for 18 months next to the Mud River. It flooded the holler, completely covering the runway in about 5 feet of water. All planes towed to safety, except one poor C-150.

Even here in the high desert one time we got the remnants of a hurricane. Only light winds and rain, but still unusual.
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Never thought I would leave the Gulf Coast for the high desert and still catch a tropical storm.
 
I've been through five hurricanes over the last twenty years. Each one left us without power for a week or so, and we sustained some minor damage (lost our barn roof in Ian in 2022, the worst damage we've had). Hangar damage at KGIF has been light, and I feel pretty good about my plane there. Out on the ramp would be a different story.

Evacuation isn't too practical for the reasons Ed Haywood stated, but also in our case it's tough to evacuate with the horse. Not impossible, but challenging, and it's doubtful we could move the horse and the airplane to the same place.

In the overall risk assessment, it's just not worth trying to leave. Our house is built like a fort and we're on high ground, so I'm not terribly worried about our safety.

Another point to consider is returning after evacuating. It's entirely possible to bug out, but then not be able to get back to your home for several days or longer after a storm. If you're not able to access your home, you can't prevent further damage to your property. Your home might have a damaged roof, there might be a tree through a window, etc., and your place will continue to receive damage from wind and rain without you there to mitigate. And then there's the risk of looting.

That's my situation, though, and each situation is unique. If we didn't have animals to worry about, if we lived in a mobile, if we were on the coast a foot above sea level, etc., etc., the risk matrix would look quite different.
 
Having a plane to evacuate Florida is great. My neighbor and I left basically at the same time, I took 8 hours to get to PA, he took 21 hours to go to TN.
I have a hangar, but still evacuate if it’s a major hurricane.
 
I've lived through a couple of hurricanes. It's not fun. If we ever got a Cat 5 right up the gut, I'm sure my house would be destroyed. My hangar is in a worse position than my house.

My guidelines are to evacuate if a Cat 3 or better is a serious threat 48 hrs out. I'd rather be safe than sorry. And I'd rather be comfortable during evacuation and deal with the aftermath later than live like a refugee in a war zone for days or weeks after the storm passes.

I plan to configure the house to best survive a storm (mostly lifting what I can to higher levels to try to escape some flooding), pack some critical items, take an Uber to the airport, and fly to safe haven.
 
We're prepped to bug-out. But the track appears to continue trending east. Good for us, bad for places like Carrabelle. You never know with these things though. Tomorrow we'll mow the grass short then make the call on whether to get all the outside furniture lashed down.

1727130844189.png
 
Tools said:
The best thing to do is live where I do. I have very good natural disaster karma.

Years on the coast, no hurricanes.
Years in the Midwest, no tornadoes.
Years in CA, no earthquakes.
Years by rivers, no flooding.

DO NOT go out to eat with me… the worlds WORST service karma. I’ll sum it up with FIVE Starbucks that have been out of COFFEE!

The policies don’t pay a lot, but covered gas as I recall. Might be a negotiable thing.
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But Sally hit Gulf Shores, or did you move there after?
 
1) I lived in S FL for 30 years, and owned aircraft for most of that time. I recall relocating aircraft at least twice. If one is in the path of a hurricane, I think relocating is The Most Conservative Action. I’ve seen too many photos of destroyed aircraft post-hurricane to take any threat lightly.

2) This will serve as my recurring offer to help out anyone wanting to evacuate to Copperhill, TN or the Knoxville area. At Copperhill you can even snag my Honda Element at the airport if you need wheels*. Can probably provide a bed, first come first served. Both locales may be getting a lot of rain from this storm, but winds are typically not too bad this far inland.

*If you can drive a stick.
 
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One thing to consider is the ability to get out of the area and get a place to sleep. If there's a real threatening Hurricane coming, flying gets you off the road and out of traffic. One less car clogging the highway and way more options to find a bed. FL has two main N/S highways, 95 and 75. You can end up driving all the way to TN on 75 to find a hotel room if there is a major evacuation. Going to a city that's not right on one of those routes gets you way more options.

So by flying, one less car trying to get out and one more hotel room on the major evacuation routes. Pilots doing a public service :)
 
Hang 4 said:
One thing to consider is the ability to get out of the area and get a place to sleep. If there's a real threatening Hurricane coming, flying gets you off the road and out of traffic. One less car clogging the highway and way more options to find a bed. FL has two main N/S highways, 95 and 75. You can end up driving all the way to TN on 75 to find a hotel room if there is a major evacuation. Going to a city that's not right on one of those routes gets you way more options.

So by flying, one less car trying to get out and one more hotel room on the major evacuation routes. Pilots doing a public service :)
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Our evac plan is to go just far enough inland to get us out of the flood zone with both vehicles, both motorcycles, and some priority possessions. Generally speaking, you don't have to go far or use the Interstate to get out of harms way (born in Baton Rouge, grew up in Lower Alabama, been the Tampa area for 12 years so I've seen my fair share of storms).
 
donjohnston said:
We're prepped to bug-out. But the track appears to continue trending east. Good for us, bad for places like Carrabelle. You never know with these things though. Tomorrow we'll mow the grass short then make the call on whether to get all the outside furniture lashed down.

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aww man, not this weekend!
 
Man I hope no one here lives in Cedar Key, they are expecting 15 ft of storm surge.
 
The idea of evacuating an aircraft from a hurricane is going to be a very situational and personal choice. Yeah you can have a few days notice, but those days are usually filled with a lot of preparation both of work and personal items, so you have to prioritize. If you have ever lived in hurricane country, you also know that storms can make last minute changes, either completely missing you and wasting your time, or catching you by surprise.

I remember Katrina, on Friday night it was crossing the Florida peninsula and was supposed to turn north into the Tallahassee area as a Category 1. Wake up Saturday morning to the phone ringing, the boss asking us to get to work to prep, because now it is coming straight at us as a potential Cat 5 and they are evacuating New Orleans. We quickly evacuated on Sunday. If I had a plane then, there simply wasn't time.

At the end of the day, despite how sentimental they may be, an aircraft is just an expensive piece of metal and/or composites that can be replaced. There are other things that may not be.
 
I’m in Fernandino this week for wife’s fall break. Maybe flying back to Atlanta on Sat? Maybe not.
 
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