Plane down at Osh. just now.

DFH65

DFH65

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DFH65
Listening to live ATC and watching ADSB. From what I could gather sounds like a plane down in the trees. Said something about 500' off the runway. Anyone there have any more info? From the sounds of things visibility is crap. There aren't many trees around so maybe that is just a tower perspective thing.
 
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No planes landing… stands to reason.

I’m at approach end of 27, no activity over here at all.
 
No planes landing. I don’t see any smoke, so that may be a good indication.

The visibility looks better than yesterday, at least from my perspective in HBC.
 
Current weather is 4 miles in haze, probably the wildfire smoke as usual this summer. I certainly would not be wanting to do the arrival into OSH in such limited visibility. Much harder to spot traffic and stay oriented.
 
They put everything on hold and last report from the tower when a King Air asked for fuel planning was 30 minutes more of closure. They sent the big and little Fords to Fond Du Lac.
 
Thanks for the update.
 
Glad to hear he’s ok.

3-6miles visibility with smoke/haze is basically IMC, you cannot see anything and basically it’s like driving in a winter blizzard. I was not aware of how severe that is until I flew in it, something you don’t really learn or experience in training. “Marginal” clouds at 2000-2999’ are fine, 3-6sm visibility not so much.
 
mandm said:
Glad to hear he’s ok.

3-6miles visibility with smoke/haze is basically IMC, you cannot see anything and basically it’s like driving in a winter blizzard. I was not aware of how severe that is until I flew in it, something you don’t really learn or experience in training. “Marginal” clouds at 2000-2999’ are fine, 3-6sm visibility not so much.
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3sm-6sm is fine. The problem is that 3sm-6sm reported usually isn't 3-6 in reality. Coming back 2 weekends ago METARS all through Indiana were reporting 6+ but I could only make out about 2 section lines - and that was with polarized lenses. Take them off and it got worse.
 
mandm said:
Glad to hear he’s ok.

3-6miles visibility with smoke/haze is basically IMC, you cannot see anything and basically it’s like driving in a winter blizzard. I was not aware of how severe that is until I flew in it, something you don’t really learn or experience in training. “Marginal” clouds at 2000-2999’ are fine, 3-6sm visibility not so much.
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I flew in it a week ago. It was calling 3-4 miles, but we filed IFR anyway. From 4,000 feet you could barely see the ground more than 1 mile away, with no discernable horizon at all. Another example of something being legal, but probably not that safe.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I flew in it a week ago. It was calling 3-4 miles, but we filed IFR anyway. From 4,000 feet you could barely see the ground more than 1 mile away, with no discernable horizon at all. Another example of something being legal, but probably not that safe.
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Yeah, which was my point. The reported isn't the actual.
 
EdFred said:
Yeah, which was my point. The reported isn't the actual.
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I couldn't imagine doing the Fisk arrival under those conditions, even as an experienced pilot. It would be difficult to even see the traffic you are following, much less maintain SA and maneuvering at the airport. Some have trouble doing it on a clear day!
 
EdFred said:
3sm-6sm is fine. The problem is that 3sm-6sm reported usually isn't 3-6 in reality. Coming back 2 weekends ago METARS all through Indiana were reporting 6+ but I could only make out about 2 section lines - and that was with polarized lenses. Take them off and it got worse.
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Slant range might have something to do with that. The observations are being taken horizontally. Up there, looking for things on the ground, you have to see through the vertical extent of the obscuration. Combine that with looking out in the distance for something on the ground and it's going to add up. How much, I dunno, but it stands to reason if your pretty high it might to be significant. What's a section and how big is it?
 
Visibility is usually reported at ground level. Up high, it may be better or worse. I've been in situations where the METAR said 5 miles visibility but once at pattern altitude I couldn't even see the runway while on downwind. At the same time, I've flown over airports that reported 1 mile visibility but up at altitude, it was clear with a clear horizon and no obstructions as far as the eye can see. Sure, I wouldn't want to land at the airport I flew over but low level fog/smoke might have no impact on your flight if you're way above it.
 
luvflyin said:
Slant range might have something to do with that. The observations are being taken horizontally. Up there, looking for things on the ground, you have to see through the vertical extent of the obscuration. Combine that with looking out in the distance for something on the ground and it's going to add up. How much, I dunno, but it stands to reason if your pretty high it might to be significant. What's a section and how big is it?
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I was at 5500 and then 5000, so about 4500 AGL. Pythagoras says that seeing 2 section lines at that altitude is about 2.5sm slant line visibility. Which is WAY less than the 6-9 being reported.
 
EdFred said:
3sm-6sm is fine. The problem is that 3sm-6sm reported usually isn't 3-6 in reality. Coming back 2 weekends ago METARS all through Indiana were reporting 6+ but I could only make out about 2 section lines - and that was with polarized lenses. Take them off and it got worse.
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So true. I went up out of KGRB a couple weeks ago and the ATIS was saying skies clear and 0 mile visibiity despite the haze in the air. My plan was to just fly around for a bit and head back in. When I got up and headed west, it was quite obvious that 10 miles was not even close to reality. I had no interest in basically flying around IFR, so after getting vectored around for about 20 m inutes due to traffic, I was finally brought around to be #7 for landing. At that time I was about 15 miles west of the airport and followed the magenta line as there was no way I could see the City of Green Bay, much less the airport from there. It wasn't until I was about four miles out that I could (sort of) make out where the airport was.
 
EdFred said:
I was at 5500 and then 5000, so about 4500 AGL. Pythagoras says that seeing 2 section lines at that altitude is about 2.5sm slant line visibility. Which is WAY less than the 6-9 being reported.
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Yup. And the haze may not extend all the way to the ground.

AOPA implies AWOS and ASOS visibility sensors extrapolate visibility from an astoundingly small area.

www.aopa.org

How It Works: Visibility sensor

What does three-quarters of a cubic foot of air have to do with visibility?
www.aopa.org
 
Zeldman said:
Or as we say in New Mexico......the front yard... :lol:
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Reminds me of the two farmers bragging about how large their farms were. First one stated, "can you see that mountain range in the distance? Well my farm goes past that!" The other said, "well if we get in my truck and drive all day we would still be on my land at sundown!" The first farmer replied, "yeah, I used to own a truck like that!" :rofl:
 
EdFred said:
I was at 5500 and then 5000, so about 4500 AGL. Pythagoras says that seeing 2 section lines at that altitude is about 2.5sm slant line visibility. Which is WAY less than the 6-9 being reported.
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Hmm. Did the haze/smoke or whatever it was have a base? Like the dude/machine taking the observation was underneath it?
 
luvflyin said:
Hmm. Did the haze/smoke or whatever it was have a base? Like the dude/machine taking the observation was underneath it?
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Nothing defined as far as bases. Could see better on the ground but just started getting worse forward (and slant) visibility as you went up. And it was definite smoke.
 
In the pre-magenta line days as a very raw student I couldn't see an airport that was "10 o'clock and 4 miles" from 2000 AGL on a day with reported 6 miles and haze. I knew where I was so I knew it was there. Finally got visual on it about 2.5 out after a couple vectors from ATC. Not a single airport in the region reported below 5 that entire afternoon. That was one of those "Today I learned something..." kind of days and made me always respect haze afterwards.
 
Boy, this thread quickly departed the discussion of the AC down at KOSH! lol Everything get cleared up and back to rolling I assume?
 
IMG_2954.jpeg

Flying today, the photo looks better than what I remember it being. Then we have good ole’ Chicago midway chopping away more airspace close to the shore plus the TFR’s pushing us out even further.
 
Plus going into the sun or away from it. We had 3 mile in fire smoke but turning into the morning sun made that disappear quickly in the glare.
 
Domenick said:
No mentions of sections, but I get your point. It's the difference between theory and application or theory and engineering.
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or discussion and pedantry.
 
I think I've just been spanked. :)
 
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