Pilot’s Erratic Behavior Forces Flight to be Diverted

Captain said:
Could you name one? In the air. I'll give away on the ground.
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Actually I can't. Well I can, but it cuts too close to SSI, so I'm going to have to bow out. Forget I mentioned it.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Agreed.

Also let me add another thought. Right now we don't know what happened to the Captain. He may be suffering from something far more serious.

I have a parent right now who's been diagnosed with brain cancer. This is an individual who is bright and articulate, never had a problem with anything. Then one morning he wakes up, can't dress himself and can't even put on his glasses. And yes, you could even say "acting erratic". After getting him to the hospital and an MRI, lesions were found on the brain, and later a cranial biopsy proved stage 4 Glioblastoma multiforme.

Before jumping to conclusions such as "flipped out" or joking about "psych test" let's hope he doesn't have something far more serious, and deadly awaiting him.

Just my .02.
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Well put. Could be a tumor.

Or something as innocuous as taking an ambien the night before (for lack of a better term, think "sleepwalking on steroids"). I've had a couple folks I've bulldogged in my 20 years as a nurse and paramedic who 24 hours later had no clue what the hell had happened, and were mortified when told of their actions..

Who knows what happened. I'd find it hard for someone with a hard core psych diagnosis to make it this far in aviation undetected.
 
Looks like Clayton Osbon, the pilot in question, and I are 3 links apart on LinkedIn (via Brian Hall, CEO of Airship Ventures.)

What is an "FAA designated Flight Standards Captain Airbus 320 Aircraft"?
 
olasek said:
I think it was extremely informative - at least we know what approximately transpired on board this aircraft. On the other hand I don't have high hopes for the medical report to provide any real insights, very often there is no clear cut diagnosis and you end up with some sort of a generic mental condition (or privacy reasons may prevent its release).
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Oh, I imagine the tox screen will come back with some interesting readings lol.
 
LearDriver said:
I've not flown with any FFDO's that kept them in a locked box.
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No, they wear it while they are in the cockpit...on their belt. I mean when they leave the cockpit they leave the gun in the cockpit and it should be in the lockbox...same as when they commute.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Looks like Clayton Osbon, the pilot in question, and I are 3 links apart on LinkedIn (via Brian Hall, CEO of Airship Ventures.)

What is an "FAA designated Flight Standards Captain Airbus 320 Aircraft"?
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A flight standards Captain flies the line and makes sure folks are flying to standards. They also perform IOE (Initial Operating Experience) for new hires and new upgrades. It's pretty much the lowest level of the training department save maybe ground instructor. But, the FAA does have oversight so the LinkIn profile would be correct.
 
Captain said:
No, they wear it while they are in the cockpit...on their belt. I mean when they leave the cockpit they leave the gun in the cockpit and it should be in the lockbox...same as when they commute.
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I would disagree. Not one of them ever wore their gun while in the cockpit. If they even attempted to do so, I would have bowed out of the flight by calling dispatch. Thats just too much Barney Fife, I want to be a hero and save the day bs. Someones going to get hit and I don't want it to be me.
 
Yeah, okay. That would go over swell. FFDO is a Federal program. Go ahead and tell the company you're not comfortable with a Federal program and see where you get.
 
LearDriver said:
I would disagree. Not one of them ever wore their gun while in the cockpit. If they even attempted to do so, I would have bowed out of the flight by calling dispatch. Thats just too much Barney Fife, I want to be a hero and save the day bs. Someones going to get hit and I don't want it to be me.
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Unless the guy was acting like a total freak, I don't think I'd even give it a second thought. Firearms don't scare me. :dunno:

[edit] Unless, of course, wearing the weapon holstered isn't permitted for FFDOs. I'm not really familiar with the regulations governing FFDOs.
 
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Why are we looking at rule changes for to cover the act of a single delusional person?

Did we ban guns because of Lee Oswald?

Did we ban Ryder trucks due to Tim McVay?


:dunno:
 
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Captain said:
Yeah, okay. That would go over swell. FFDO is a Federal program. Go ahead and tell the company you're not comfortable with a Federal program and see where you get.
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It would go over just fine. Who gives a crap if it is a federal program. If the person that is approved under that program is a nut case, why would you jeopardize your safety or that of the aircraft or passengers. Thats my obligation as a professional and a pilot. Statements you make like that really make it hard for anyone to take you seriously. Personally, I really doubt your a professional let a lone a pilot with some of the things you write. But have a pulse and fog a mirror and anyone can be a regional pilot.
 
Geico266 said:
Why are we looking at rule changes for to cover the act of a single delusional person?
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We have TSA body scanners because of the failed act of a single underwear bomber. We have TSA 3-ounce liquid limits because of the act of a single person. And so on.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
I have yet to see in any 121 operations FOM a requirement for someone to "occupy" the Captain's seat if he leaves the cockpit under 14 CFR Part 121.543. Neither is there a requirement for a second individual to be in the cockpit for the same situation.

And this is not a OpSpecs requirement either.
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Agreed. I've got video of someone all by his lonesome hanging out in a 777 cockpit while the other pilot was "taking care of business" that's less than a year old on a major U.S. flagged carrier. It may even be on YouTube.
 
LearDriver said:
I would disagree. Not one of them ever wore their gun while in the cockpit. If they even attempted to do so, I would have bowed out of the flight by calling dispatch. Thats just too much Barney Fife, I want to be a hero and save the day bs. Someones going to get hit and I don't want it to be me.
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I also disagree. They're not wearing them. In fact the Captain that put a hole through the bottom of his aircraft by accident at the gate was placing his Glock in a holster inside a flight bag in the usual flight bag holder/cutaway in the forward cabin wall near his seat.
 
LearDriver said:
It would go over just fine. Who gives a crap if it is a federal program. If the person that is approved under that program is a nut case, why would you jeopardize your safety or that of the aircraft or passengers. Thats my obligation as a professional and a pilot. Statements you make like that really make it hard for anyone to take you seriously. Personally, I really doubt your a professional let a lone a pilot with some of the things you write. But have a pulse and fog a mirror and anyone can be a regional pilot.
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I'm not a regional pilot. I was an FFDO and the weapon was supposed to be worn on the belt during flight. I was NOT authorized to roam the cabin with it so if I neede to use the lav I was required to take the weapon off my belt and secure it prior to departing the flight deck.

Do some pilots just keep it in the lock box? Sure...it's easier to do. But the idea is the gun is on your hip and ready for use in case someone comes through the door.

Any airline that interfered with that policy would have problems with the DHS and any pilot that interfered would have a problem with the company and DHS.

I fog a mirror and I'm not a regional pilot...but nice work putting all of those guys down trying to insult me for speaking the truth.
 
denverpilot said:
I also disagree. They're not wearing them. In fact the Captain that put a hole through the bottom of his aircraft by accident at the gate was placing his Glock in a holster inside a flight bag in the usual flight bag holder/cutaway in the forward cabin wall near his seat.
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And once again your inexperience with fact shines through.

FFDOs don't don the gun at the gate. They don it once the door is shut. If they need to pee they secure it whilst they're gone...to re-don it when they return.


Ya know the problem with this forum? People with no experience get to throw stones at those who do it.

Y'all play pilot and hear stories, but when a guy comes in who actually does what you dream about you shove them down and ridicule him because why? I don't know.

There are some good guys here. But way too many stuck in their 'the way I do it is great and it's the only way.' That's super for what you do and where you fly. But I don't do that. None of the people I fly with do that. If you think DAL Captains consult their A/FD and know what the heck 91.103 is and fly a traffic pattern of any sort in their B-777 then you are delusional. And if that pilot is an FFDO then he's supposed to strap that weapon to his belt while in the cockpit flying with the door locked. If he isn't then he's being lazy.

As long as I'm at it, the reverse high speed turn off is a bad idea.

Anyway. To those that hate me..you win. Im out. I don't need this headache. There is zero benefit here...thanks for that.
 
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denverpilot said:
I also disagree. They're not wearing them. In fact the Captain that put a hole through the bottom of his aircraft by accident at the gate was placing his Glock in a holster inside a flight bag in the usual flight bag holder/cutaway in the forward cabin wall near his seat.
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That actually happened in flight, unless there have been multiple accidental discharges by FFDOs.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I'm actually rather surprised that a certain politician representing my state hasn't climbed onto his soapbox yet to capitalize on this near-tragedy by informing us that he's sponsoring legislation "to make sure this never happens again," by making it a crime to experience a psychotic episode while in command of an aircraft.

There's always tomorrow, though.

(I'm not kidding, by the way.)

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
I'm actually rather surprised that a certain politician representing my state hasn't climbed onto his soapbox yet to capitalize on this near-tragedy by informing us that he's sponsoring legislation "to make sure this never happens again," by making it a crime to experience a psychotic episode while in command of an aircraft.

There's always tomorrow, though.

(I'm not kidding, by the way.)

-Rich
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Like I said....gotta wait for the hoodie crap to blow over....then stand by for the addition of psych tests to the medical. Stoopid news freaks are already talking about how there isn't much testing in that regard for pilots.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
wsuffa said:
We have TSA body scanners because of the failed act of a single underwear bomber. We have TSA 3-ounce liquid limits because of the act of a single person. And so on.
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There is a huge difference between a determine and dedicated enemy and a single nut job going berserk. " Knee jerk" legislation based on a nut job going beserk is always useless, and encombering to liberty.

I mean no disrespect to this pilot. Clearly, he had a medical problem and I hope he has a full recovery.
 
Geico266 said:
I can't imagine the second guessing going on in the co pilot's mind. "Am I doing the right thing?"
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Yeah, one would think that would not an easy call to make. But then again, we don't know exactly what the captain said or did to make the FO concerned. Someone who's truly delusional, like psychotic episode delusional, can say and do very bizarre and uncharacteristic things, often rather suddenly. It's alarming in any setting, and probably damn scary when there's a crew of two flying an airliner, and one of them is clearly not in his right mind!
He's really very lucky that the captain decided on his own to go aft, giving him a chance to lock him out... a battle on the flight deck for control of the aircraft would not have been good at all.:no:
 
Captain said:
And once again your inexperience with fact shines through.
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Perhaps.

Captain said:
FFDOs don't don the gun at the gate. They don it once the door is shut. If they need to pee they secure it whilst they're gone...to re-don it when they return.
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The one I talked with didn't. Sorry if you take it so personally that he gave me bad information.

Captain said:
Ya know the problem with this forum? People with no experience get to throw stones at those who do it.
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Awww.

Captain said:
Y'all play pilot and hear stories, but when a guy comes in who actually does what you dream about you shove them down and ridicule him because why? I don't know.
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"what you dream about"... oh that's rich... you sir are a funny guy. ;)

Captain said:
There are some good guys here. But way too many stuck in their 'the way I do it is great and it's the only way.' That's super for what you do and where you fly. But I don't do that. None of the people I fly with do that. If you think DAL Captains consult their A/FD and know what the heck 91.103 is and fly a traffic pattern of any sort in their B-777 then you are delusional. And if that pilot is an FFDO then he's supposed to strap that weapon to his belt while in the cockpit flying with the door locked. If he isn't then he's being lazy.
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So let me get this straight... knowing FARs is overachieving but leaving the loaded firearm within arms reach is lazy. Got it. ;)

Captain said:
As long as I'm at it, the reverse high speed turn off is a bad idea.
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Wrong thread, but we can go there... :)

Captain said:
Anyway. To those that hate me..you win. Im out. I don't need this headache. There is zero benefit here...thanks for that.
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Nobody hates you.

Imagine PoA as a real-life gathering of pilots, controllers, and friends of wildly varying backgrounds who are standing around in a bar chatting about flying. (We even have a cool Doc hanging out.)

Some guy nobody knows, walks up and without introducing himself, starts into a story about some violation no one's ever heard of anyone ever getting violated over, so folks question it heavily.

The story/warning continues to get added to until now we all realize the captain who got violated was a complete ass to the controller and was just begging for a violation by his bad attitude. Yawn.

Meanwhile the original storyteller is getting angry at the questioners for no good reason and claiming all of them (who the group knows very well) haven't done any of the flying or controlling they have done.

Think anyone finds this guy as someone they "admire" and/or "want to be like"? Really?

More like, "Is this guy for real? Is he nuts?"

The whole point here is interaction. Meeting people. Maybe learning a little.

You say "there is zero benefit"... What exactly were you expecting? I'm seriously asking.

Was everyone to fall prostrate that a mighty Airline Captain graced us with his presence? ROFL. Now that sir, is a joke. And rhetorical. ;)

Hey. If I'm wrong about the firearms thing, I'll admit it. Ain't no skin off my nose.

I had bad info from someone in person vs. a guy who's apparently expecting respect on an Internet forum -- because he says he flies airliners.

Guess which one I'm going with 99% of the time. :)

You know how many guys say that on the Internet?

You seem to be lacking context of what happens on the Net. There are a few of us with our real names and real life stories out here and there's a whole bunch of fakes and wannabes and even a few who want to behave badly while hiding behind a keyboard thinking that makes them superior while they hide behind an avatar and a fake name.

Forgive us if we're a little leery of someone who shows up named "Captain" and proceeds to tell a 28 year ATC guy who has a real name that can be verified, that he doesn't know ATC. LOL!

No one here "hates" you. In fact, no one here even knows you. Many of us have met in person. Many of us have flown together.

A few have even found true love. (Not kidding.)

When a stranger walks up and says "respect me for I am a Captain" we roll our eyes a bit and wonder if they're for real -- or a 14-year-old in mommie's basement.

Then we wait to see what they say and contribute.

You started off weird is all.

But you do need to understand and comprehend that there are pilots who couldn't give a flying leap about airline flying in a forum as broad as this one.

Captain is just a job. I pay you $300 to get me somewhere my Skylane can't or my skills won't allow. You pay me to keep systems like your ticketing system running. Those are our jobs.

When you walk up onto "the front porch of aviation" as this Board touts itself to be, and rail about how you're an Airline Captain and we all should not ask questions or have opinions about your posts from our own (possibly incorrect) experiences, we think you're loony.

"Who IS this guy? He's weird."

"I dunno. You want another beer?"

Hang out. Get to know some folks.

My experiences and reasons for flying are really damn well published for all to see. My life is pretty good (well, I could use some more vacation time to go flying and enjoy my 182) and my "rock stars" are mainly my real life instructors. They've done a great job of keeping me from being dead, so they get free beer whenever I'm around.

You? You're an airline Captain. Okay cool. I know a few and consider them personal friends. One I consider family.

They know their GA stuff a hell of a lot better than you do. That's no skin off of your nose, I know. But it leaves me wondering why you don't care as much as they do.

Forgive me if I've met lots of Captains and FOs who don't say things like, "We don't use A/FDs." To be honest "Captain", you're the first who's EVER said that to me since 1991. All the airline pilots I know are consummate aviators with more than just airline flying on the brain. They fly GA stuff. They know the full craft of aviation, not just how they do their day jobs driving the bus.

I don't take it personally that you attack my experience level. I know very well where I stand in that regard.

Why do you take it personally that I know better Airline Captains than you? Let me rephrase that. I know better more well-rounded pilots who also happen to be Airline Captains.

There's nothing about that fact that you should be taking personally.

I'm just here to meet nice folks and maybe someday share a flight or a beer or a meal, or even a good old fashioned Internet debate with 'em.

What are you here for? Why is it letting you down?

Affirmation? Yay. You're an airline pilot.

Respect? Earn it.

Conversations? Try not to jump straight to questioning the experiences of others. You can attack me on that front all you like. I have a whopping 400 hours and enjoy my 182 immensely. I don't care if someone says I'm green. I am. There's also greener here. They're good kids.

You started off insulting a 28 year controller telling him he didn't know what he was talking about. I was actually laughing out loud at how deep you'd stepped in it on that one.

Chill out. Meet some folks. Enjoy yourself. It's the Internet. We all think we're right until someone shows us that we're not. It's completely normal. ;)

It's also completely normal not to hold anything a newbie says about anything in very high regard until they've been around a while.

I posted this one before... see the humor. Laugh a little! Sheesh man.

4b94241c-3f42-20c8.jpg
 
RJM62 said:
I'm actually rather surprised that a certain politician representing my state hasn't climbed onto his soapbox yet to capitalize on this near-tragedy by informing us that he's sponsoring legislation "to make sure this never happens again," by making it a crime to experience a psychotic episode while in command of an aircraft.

There's always tomorrow, though.

(I'm not kidding, by the way.)

-Rich
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I do believe Chucky is on his anti (legal) gun high horse again, trying to make laws that no criminal would ever follow, but would restrict the rights of law abiding citizens.
 
Do y'all "dream" of being an airline pilot?

I know I don't. :rolleyes:

In fact most hear are living their dream through general aviation.
 
Anthony said:
I do believe Chucky is on his anti (legal) gun high horse again, trying to make laws that no criminal would ever follow, but would restrict the rights of law abiding citizens.
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Now Anthony, did I mention any names? :rofl:

-Rich
 
denverpilot said:
Perhaps.
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Hey Nate.... Can you please expand on your thoughts a little more. That short response is hard to grasp.... Thanks in advance.:yesnod::rofl::rofl::lol:.

Ps.. I really hope the "captain" will see your points" and join us in all the fun and sharing of flying ..:idea:
 
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You can always count on the spelling Nazis. :)
 
Anthony said:
You can always count on the spelling Nazis. :)
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It just struck me as funny this morning...yup, it was goofy so I used the goofy emoticon, nothing personal.
 
Originally Posted by Doggtyred
I'd find it hard for someone with a hard core psych diagnosis to make it this far in aviation undetected.

Henning said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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Henning laughs because he has proven that statement wrong and he knows it! :goofy:


Forums require a thick skin
 
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