Picking Up Flight Following - What is easy for you?

[fiveoboy01]

The controllers around here want only the tail number/type on initial call up. It think that's probably what most controller want as well based on previous comment from controllers on this board. They may not be ready to copy everyting down if you vomit everything on initial call up, and then you have to say it all again


Brevity. Learn it love it.

And I've had an approach controller tell me that they prefer all the info on the initial call up. "We can handle it".

It's situation specific. If things are extremely busy, brevity works. If not, stating your entire request right away works too. If they miss part of it, you get to repeat what's missing, either way you're making 2 transmissions.

 

[bkspero]

Interesting the variation in guidance from Tracon to Tracon. I've attended presentations from both the New York Bravo and Philadelphia Bravo controllers and both gave the same guidance. They would prefer to provide flight following if at all possible. Keep the first call as short as possible just to let them know that you're out there but maximizing the chance that you can squeeze it in without getting into the way..."NY Approach, Bugmasher 12345". No need to insert request...they aren't expecting that you are making a social call. When they have a gap in their stream of instructions they will respond to your call and get the rest of the information. Give them 2-3 minutes to respond before calling a 2nd time, but do so if if you haven't gotten a response by then.

 

[EdFred]

One short and one long vs two long is not the same brevity wise

And I've had an approach controller tell me that they prefer all the info on the initial call up. "We can handle it".

It's situation specific. If things are extremely busy, brevity works. If not, stating your entire request right away works too. If they miss part of it, you get to repeat what's missing, either way you're making 2 transmissions.

 

[BillTIZ]

Echo Bay, NV 0L9, into North Las Vegas VGT, Nevada. 5500MSL
Call class B on chart published freq, immediately given another, and then another to Nellis Approach.
That freq is scratchy I'm still behind a mountain for Nellis. He gives me another.
Finally given a squawk and radar ID, about 2 minutes before I need it, cleared into Class B.
4 Freqs to get what I need. Just publish the good freq!

 

[petrolero]

Someone may have posted this already, but filing a VFR flight plan won't expedite FF. ATC doesn't have your flight plan unless it is IFR.

I would listen for a while, then call approach. If they are too busy they will decline to give you FF.

 

[MAKG1]

And even if ATC did have your VFR flight plan, the only parts that would be relevant would be the tail number and destination. Route of flight is not generally important for flight following, nor is ETA.

 

[ircphoenix]

I'm fortunate enough that I can pick up flight following on the ground at the airport I fly out of. Makes life super easy.

But if I have to pick it up on the fly (pun not intended) I get on the published approach frequency in the A/FD.

I'm of the "VFR with request" school of thought on this. After working on both ends of a radio for a decade, I understand that sometimes there's something going on on the other side of the radio that you can't see, so giving the controller a chance to get mentally prepared to deal with your request is the nice thing to do. That way, if they don't catch it all because they have 3 other things going on, they don't have to have you say your whole spiel over again.

So for me it's "Cessna N12345, VFR with request."
Then approach will talk to 3 other aircraft and get back to me with "Cessna N12345 go ahead with request."
At that point I go with "N12345 is at 3,000 feet for 5,500 5 miles southeast of ************, request flight following to ********."

Then I get my squawk and off I go, getting to listen to controllers chastising other traffic near LAX for trying to run into me.

 

[ytodd]

I only typically fly in two Bravo's. Chicago and Saint Louis.

For me in Chicago it is:
"Cessna N12345, VFR with request."
Then Chicago approach will talk to 15 other aircraft and get back to me with "Cessna N12345 go ahead with request."
At that point I go with "N12345 is at 3,000 feet for 5,500 5 miles southeast of ************, request flight following to ********."

For me in Saint Louis it is:
"Cessna N12345, VFR with request."
Then Saint Louis approach will talk to 3 other aircraft and get back to me with "Cessna N12345 go ahead with request." OR
Saint Louis approach will respond with "Cessna N12345 squawk 1234 and say request"
At that point I go with "N12345 is at 3,000 feet for 5,500 5 miles southeast of ************, request flight following to ********."

 

[Kritchlow]

No big deal,

Approach, Cessna 123 2nm north of podunk at 2k

Cessna 123 approach go ahead.

Approach Cessna 123 requesting flight following, present position direct bumfark airport.

Cessna 123 squawk 1234



No biggie


Side note, unless I'm VFR only and crossing a international boarder or flying into DC or something, I never file VFR flight plans.

Just curious... Does your company maintain flight following? I thought all 135 companies needed some sort of flight following, whether it be a flight plan (IFR or VFR) or internal (PITA).

 

[bikert]

Here's a little trick that I always use. Of course this only works if you're instrument rated...

ALWAYS file an IFR plan even if you plan to go VFR with FF. When you depart, whoever you talk to first (tower or departure or center) just say very briefly:

"Departure, N123"
"N123, go ahead
"Departure, N123, I have an IFR plan on file but request VFR flight following to ABC at XX thousand 500"

And that's it. It is very easy for them to pull up your plan and just reuse it for FF so they won't ask you for plane type, equipment, etc, and they already know where you're going. If they're busy it's not a huge pain in the rear end for them to type all this info in, it is already in the system. This always works for me and is super easy. Later when I check on flightaware it shows my original IFR clearance even though I went FF. The added benefit is that if the weather is poor when I want to leave and I can't go VFR, I'm already set to request the IFR clearance.

 

[tuwood]

I have a more general newbie FF question. When I get a VFR clearance out of my class C airport (KLNK) and they give me a squawk and hand me off to departure/approach after takeoff do I officially have "flight following" at that time? In other words if I'm flying XC will I continue to be handed off to center until I intentionally cancel my FF and squawk VFR?
So far all of my training flights have been under ATC and Approach/Departure control so I'm curious.

 

[Mopauly]

I fly in the PHL Bravo a lot, so I always ask for flight advisories after departing my home airport outside of the B. However I never try to cut directly across the B, and know by now they will vector me out to MXE or likewise to avoid approach and departure traffic.

Flight advisories are a two way street - if you ask for the moon you're not going to get it. I plan my flights so that they minimize headache for a controller but also help me get where I'm going. On rare occasion or slow days I'll be vectored straight through, gets me where I need to go and gets me out of their hair faster.

 

[Mopauly]

I have a more general newbie FF question. When I get a VFR clearance out of my class C airport (KLNK) and they give me a squawk and hand me off to departure/approach after takeoff do I officially have "flight following" at that time? In other words if I'm flying XC will I continue to be handed off to center until I intentionally cancel my FF and squawk VFR?
So far all of my training flights have been under ATC and Approach/Departure control so I'm curious.

Once you are assigned a squawk code and acknowledged on radar, they've accepted your request and will provide advisories, until they terminate the following for workload reasons or you terminate it; in one rare example I've been under a FF from Potomac, and they forgot about me and I eventually went back to VFR as I was unsure who my next handoff was supposed to be.

That said a FF is not the be all end all - just monitoring approach/departure traffic in an area is advisable even without it, as you'll know by description if traffic is being routed around you. I've also seen traffic that the controller didn't mention, remember under a VFR advisory you are not there number 1 priority and need to be very vigilant in scanning for traffic as well.

 

[EdFred]

Flight advisories are a two way street - if you ask for the moon you're not going to get it.

That's not always the case. I've gotten ATL Bravo transition at peak on the exact route I wanted (right through the middle of it at 5500), right over CVG IFR (N/S just like the runway alignment),
a block altitude in MEM's airspace, and I've gotten a guided aerial tour from the PHL controllers, - of course that one wasn't asked for, but a nice surprise. I can't recall when I wasn't denied getting what I wanted. CLE once asked me to remain clear of the Bravo, but I was at 9500 anyway, but right over the top.

 

[steingar]

Busier places its harder to get. Out here in the boonies it can be pretty easy. I sometimes get it without asking when coming out of controlled airspace.

 

[EdFred]

Busier places its harder to get. Out here in the boonies it can be pretty easy. I sometimes get it without asking when coming out of controlled airspace.

I've found it's all how you ask. I've had someone in front of me ask for FF, and they were horrible on the radio. They were denied. I call up not 30 seconds later with a clear concise request, and sounded like I knew what I was doing and was given FF.

 

[azure]

I have a more general newbie FF question. When I get a VFR clearance out of my class C airport (KLNK) and they give me a squawk and hand me off to departure/approach after takeoff do I officially have "flight following" at that time? In other words if I'm flying XC will I continue to be handed off to center until I intentionally cancel my FF and squawk VFR?
So far all of my training flights have been under ATC and Approach/Departure control so I'm curious.

Unfortunately there is no guarantee that you won't be cut loose at the edge of their airspace, or even if they hand you off, at the edge of the next controller's airspace. FF is workload permitting, and at some facilities, they're just too busy to work handoffs.

However, I found that you can sometimes get a handoff by requesting it way ahead of time, when you first check in with the controller. That way, they may be able to make time to work your handoff into their to-do list. At that point, they'll usually tell you whether you can expect it or not.

 

[roncachamp]

Here's a little trick that I always use. Of course this only works if you're instrument rated...

ALWAYS file an IFR plan even if you plan to go VFR with FF. When you depart, whoever you talk to first (tower or departure or center) just say very briefly:

"Departure, N123"
"N123, go ahead
"Departure, N123, I have an IFR plan on file but request VFR flight following to ABC at XX thousand 500"

And that's it. It is very easy for them to pull up your plan and just reuse it for FF so they won't ask you for plane type, equipment, etc, and they already know where you're going. If they're busy it's not a huge pain in the rear end for them to type all this info in, it is already in the system. This always works for me and is super easy. Later when I check on flightaware it shows my original IFR clearance even though I went FF. The added benefit is that if the weather is poor when I want to leave and I can't go VFR, I'm already set to request the IFR clearance.

Yes. it's easy to use that filed IFR flight plan for flight following. All that needs to be done is change the requested IFR altitude to "VFR". But if flight following is all that you want you can file "VFR" as the requested altitude yourself.

 

[James331]

Just curious... Does your company maintain flight following? I thought all 135 companies needed some sort of flight following, whether it be a flight plan (IFR or VFR) or internal (PITA).

We have sat phones which also are trackers, plus we check in.

 

[Tampico Trauma]

We pick up flight following from BFL Ground and keep it all the way past SCK until established on final at O20. The ground controllers insist on giving it to you and offer it with every taxi clearance.

On the reverse, once I turn crosswind, I switch over to NorCal and 9 times out of ten, they give it to me instantly... Last trip, he was admittedly busy and said: "Tampico 470, things look clear out there, call me back in 5 for a squwak."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tampico Trauma]

But FF around the LAX bravo is actually more convenient than not...the vectors and sometimes Bravo clearances are great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[azure]

Yes. it's easy to use that filed IFR flight plan for flight following. All that needs to be done is change the requested IFR altitude to "VFR". But if flight following is all that you want you can file "VFR" as the requested altitude yourself.

With the caveat that the FAA (specifically, the Chief Counsel) is on record as saying that if you check the IFR box, they will take that as evidence of intent to operate IFR, which could come into play in an enforcement proceeding if you're not instrument qualified.

Yes, it's stupid. Yet another reason not to write to the Chief Counsel with frivolous questions because "I just have to know." You might not be able to stand the answer.

 

[roncachamp]

I have a more general newbie FF question. When I get a VFR clearance out of my class C airport (KLNK) and they give me a squawk and hand me off to departure/approach after takeoff do I officially have "flight following" at that time? In other words if I'm flying XC will I continue to be handed off to center until I intentionally cancel my FF and squawk VFR?
So far all of my training flights have been under ATC and Approach/Departure control so I'm curious.

You will have more than flight following, you will have Class C services while within the Class C airspace itself and also within the Outer Area, normally a 20 mile radius of the core airport from the lower limits of radar and radio coverage up to the top of the Class E airspace delegated to the TRACON. In addition to the traffic advisories and safety alerts of flight following you'll also be separated from IFR traffic. When you exit the Outer Area the controller may terminate radar services, or he might continue providing flight following to the limits of his airspace, or he may coordinate with the next guy and transfer you to him. There is no standard.

 

[roncachamp]

With the caveat that the FAA (specifically, the Chief Counsel) is on record as saying that if you check the IFR box, they will take that as evidence of intent to operate IFR, which could come into play in an enforcement proceeding if you're not instrument qualified.

Yes, it's stupid. Yet another reason not to write to the Chief Counsel with frivolous questions because "I just have to know." You might not be able to stand the answer.

The Chief Counsel is an idiot.

 

[flyingron]

I still remember sitting at the initial meeting for pilots cleared to operate out of the DC-3 and having some high level ATC manager make a big thing about the effort of getting the VFR FRZ flight plans from the Leesburg FSS to the approach controllers. "Marty, why don't you just put them in as IFR," I ask. He goes to the reps from the Leesburg AFSS and they go "Of course, that's how we're going to do it, how else?"

 

[TheGolfPilot]

With the caveat that the FAA (specifically, the Chief Counsel) is on record as saying that if you check the IFR box, they will take that as evidence of intent to operate IFR, which could come into play in an enforcement proceeding if you're not instrument qualified.

Yes, it's stupid. Yet another reason not to write to the Chief Counsel with frivolous questions because "I just have to know." You might not be able to stand the answer.

For the guy that went into IMC over Bakersfield, CA a few weeks back, checking IFR on the flight plan just may have cost his whole family their lives. ATC started treating him like an IFR guy and he got into more than he and maybe even his plane could handle.
Probably best practice not to file for something you are not legal And/or capable to do.

 

[MAKG1]

For the guy that went into IMC over Bakersfield, CA a few weeks back, checking IFR on the flight plan just may have cost his whole family their lives. ATC started treating him like an IFR guy and he got into more than he and maybe even his plane could handle.
Probably best practice not to file for something you are not legal And/or capable to do.

Please review the flight before using it as cautionary tale. That flight departed VFR, under flight following. He was offered and accepted a pop up clearance. ATC does this on occasion; they have no idea if any given pilot is instrument rated. Heck, I've been offered clearances when I reported clouds over Watsonville, while carrying CAP cadets on orientation rides, using the CAP callsign. That's against CAP rules (and really not very useful for an O ride), so I just diverted to South County instead.

It is not ATC's job to verify you have the skills. You are PIC. They might deny Class B clearance if you sound like you're clueless, but that's a workload thing, not a skills evaluation thing.

 

[roncachamp]

For the guy that went into IMC over Bakersfield, CA a few weeks back, checking IFR on the flight plan just may have cost his whole family their lives. ATC started treating him like an IFR guy and he got into more than he and maybe even his plane could handle.
Probably best practice not to file for something you are not legal And/or capable to do.

When you file an IFR flight plan with "VFR" as the altitude you are not filing for something you are not legal to or capable of doing.

 

[roncachamp]

Please review the flight before using it as cautionary tale. That flight departed VFR, under flight following. He was offered and accepted a pop up clearance. ATC does this on occasion; they have no idea if any given pilot is instrument rated. Heck, I've been offered clearances when I reported clouds over Watsonville, while carrying CAP cadets on orientation rides, using the CAP callsign. That's against CAP rules (and really not very useful for an O ride), so I just diverted to South County instead.

If a controller is going to offer an IFR clearance to a VFR aircraft he must first ask if the pilot is equipped for and capable of IFR flight.

 

[MAKG1]

If a controller is going to offer an IFR clearance to a VFR aircraft he must first ask if the pilot is equipped for and capable of IFR flight.

Well, in my case, it was "do you need a clearance?"

Maybe that might have been the next question, but it was never asked.

 

[TheGolfPilot]

Please review the flight before using it as cautionary tale. That flight departed VFR, under flight following. He was offered and accepted a pop up clearance. ATC does this on occasion; they have no idea if any given pilot is instrument rated. Heck, I've been offered clearances when I reported clouds over Watsonville, while carrying CAP cadets on orientation rides, using the CAP callsign. That's against CAP rules (and really not very useful for an O ride), so I just diverted to South County instead.

It is not ATC's job to verify you have the skills. You are PIC. They might deny Class B clearance if you sound like you're clueless, but that's a workload thing, not a skills evaluation thing.

Exactly, It is the job of the pilot to evaluate his skills. Giving a clearance to someone who shouldn't have one is not the fault of the controller, it is the fault of the pilot for accepting it. There should have been an emergency call the second that pilot was out of VMC conditions.

When you file an IFR flight plan with "VFR" as the altitude you are not filing for something you are not legal to or capable of doing.

The VFR altitude goes into the system and it will get changed to an appropriate IFR altitude because the IFR box was ticked. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just agreeing with the FAA in viewing the IFR marking as intention. That is, after all, what a flight plan is.

 

[MAKG1]

Exactly, It is the job of the pilot to evaluate his skills. Giving a clearance to someone who shouldn't have one is not the fault of the controller, it is the fault of the pilot for accepting it. There should have been an emergency call the second that pilot was out of VMC conditions.

He should have never left the ground.

Had he understood his weather briefing, he would have known there was a front in his way. He spent the first hour of his flight dodging clouds all over the place and finally ran out of clear air when he crossed the front.

Clearly, trying to hide his lack of skills made it a lot worse, but the primary error was launching into conditions where the flight could not possibly be completed.

This was not an accidental IMC encounter. He went into IMC on purpose, bet his life on his autopilot, and probably got real confused when it didn't behave like he expected -- we think he encountered rising air and tried to rely on alt hold, eventually losing it when he turned it off.

 

[TheGolfPilot]

He should have never left the ground.

Had he understood his weather briefing, he would have known there was a front in his way. He spent the first hour of his flight dodging clouds all over the place and finally ran out of clear air when he crossed the front.

Clearly, trying to hide his lack of skills made it a lot worse, but the primary error was launching into conditions where the flight could not possibly be completed.

This was not an accidental IMC encounter. He went into IMC on purpose, bet his life on his autopilot, and probably got real confused when it didn't behave like he expected -- we think he encountered rising air and tried to rely on alt hold, eventually losing it when he turned it off.

100% agree

 

[roncachamp]

Exactly, It is the job of the pilot to evaluate his skills. Giving a clearance to someone who shouldn't have one is not the fault of the controller, it is the fault of the pilot for accepting it. There should have been an emergency call the second that pilot was out of VMC conditions.

It's the controller's job to ask the pilot if he/she is qualified for and capable of conducting IFR flight before offering an IFR clearance. When it's the pilot's idea to go IFR it's assumed he's qualified and capable. When it's the controller's idea he has to verify the pilot is qualified and capable.

The VFR altitude goes into the system and it will get changed to an appropriate IFR altitude because the IFR box was ticked. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just agreeing with the FAA in viewing the IFR marking as intention. That is, after all, what a flight plan is.

No, the strip will come out with whatever was entered as the requested altitude. The VFR and IFR boxes on the flight plan are just for routing; select VFR and the data goes to FSS, select IFR and it goes to ATC.

 

[islandboy]

6PC at 3000 for 0 AGL. Request chute following...

 

[write-stuff]

Here's a 2-page .pdf that makes it pretty simple:
http://www.goldsealgroundschool.com/library/flight-following.pdf

 

[roncachamp]

Here's a 2-page .pdf that makes it pretty simple:
http://www.goldsealgroundschool.com/library/flight-following.pdf

From 2-page .pdf:

In the event of an emergency, a loss of engine power for example, you don’t have to add to your workload by describing your position to someone on the radio. ATC knows where you are. When you call “mayday, mayday, mayday” and squawk 7700 on the transponder, they are ready to send assistance your way.

In the event of an emergency, you don’t have to add to your workload by changing your ATC-assigned discrete code to 7700 on the transponder. Doing so does not provide any additional information to ATC.

 

[azure]

The VFR altitude goes into the system and it will get changed to an appropriate IFR altitude because the IFR box was ticked. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just agreeing with the FAA in viewing the IFR marking as intention. That is, after all, what a flight plan is.

Not if you put "VFR" (i.e., the letters V-F-R) in the altitude box, instead of a VFR altitude. My understanding is that does NOT generate an IFR flight plan, and is in fact the way VFR flights are handled in the FRZ.

 

[roncachamp]

Not if you put "VFR" (i.e., the letters V-F-R) in the altitude box, instead of a VFR altitude. My understanding is that does NOT generate an IFR flight plan, and is in fact the way VFR flights are handled in the FRZ.

Example of DUAT input and ATC output:

 

[Velocity173]

Here's a 2-page .pdf that makes it pretty simple:
http://www.goldsealgroundschool.com/library/flight-following.pdf

Good write up. The contacting tower prior to entry is a good practice as discussed on the other thread. Transfer of comms will normally take place at 5 miles. If they don't, a query is most prudent.

The terminology of "hand off" to a class D may or may not happen depending on the equipment, but I get what the author intended.

As above, changing the sqk to 7700 is a waste of time.