Picking Up Flight Following - What is easy for you?

TK211X

TK211X

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Couple of questions.

Lets say you want to get from point A to Point B. (More than 50NM)

Point A in uncontrolled
There is a class bravo and a class delta near your airport of departure (Point A)

I'm usually hesitant to call up class bravo Approach when they are busy and try to get Flight Following. I hate being that one person who calls up in between the rush and has to start telling the controller Where I am. Where I'm trying to get FF to. I mean, thats like 4 transmissions right there. So I have several questions for some of the more experienced pilots here.

If you file a flight plan, that would simplify everything right? How would you call them up? "XX Approach NXXXXX requesting VFR flight following as filed?

or

Would it be ok to call up the class delta tower after departure and get them to initiate flight following and bunny hop me over to approach with all my info in the system?

I'm just trying to figure out a way to make it less stressful to pick up flight following when approach is swamped.

Also, what do you personally find is an easy way to pick up flight following?
 
The Class B approach will be giving you flight following anyway, so you're not saving anyone anything by calling the tower.

Not all towers can coordinate flight following anyway.

Just call Approach, using the frequency in the AFD for your airport. If there isn't one or no one answers (this seems to happen once in a while) use the nearest blue box on the sectional.
 
MAKG1 said:
The Class B approach will be giving you flight following anyway, so you're not saving anyone anything by calling the tower.

Not all towers can coordinate flight following anyway.

Just call Approach, using the frequency in the AFD for your airport. If there isn't one or no one answers (this seems to happen once in a while) use the nearest blue box on the sectional.
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This. Unless the tower at your departure airport can give ff (mine couldn't until a few months ago) just get it from approach.
 
I call up (busy) Charlotte approach all the time and ask for FF. I do my best to relay only the pertinent info as quickly and clearly as possible but there's nothing wrong with requesting it. basically: "eman1200 just departed monroe heading east climbing out of 2000, request FF to CRE at 5500". boom. I "feel bad" for about a second but this is how it's done.
 
It normally goes like this for me...

Me: Big City Appraoch, Bugsmasher 21 just departed Podunk, request Flight Following.
Them: Bugsmasher 21 Squawk 1234
Me: copy 1234, I'll be going to ABC at 12.5.
Them: Copy all, radar contact 5 miles west of Podunk at 2 thousand 5 hundred, continue climb to 12 thousand 5 hundred, advise any changes.
Me: That checks, I'll report any changes.
 
eman1200 said:
I call up (busy) Charlotte approach all the time and ask for FF. I do my best to relay only the pertinent info as quickly and clearly as possible but there's nothing wrong with requesting it. basically: "eman1200 just departed monroe heading east climbing out of 2000, request FF to CRE at 5500". boom. I "feel bad" for about a second but this is how it's done.
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I look at it like they would probably prefer me calling up and getting ff even on a busy freq since they then know my intentions and can plan accordingly rather than guessing what my route/alt may be. I think it makes their job easier in the end. This is especially true in/around busy airspace.
 
TK211X said:
If you file a flight plan, that would simplify everything right? How would you call them up? "XX Approach NXXXXX requesting VFR flight following as filed?
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BTW... Nobody other than the departing and arriving FSS sees your flight plan, unless you're overdue. All that being said, telling approach that you filed a VFR flight plan would be useless. For an IFR flight plan, they would have all your info in front of them.
 
Just call approach. If they can't work you in they'll at least say "standby". It'll work out. Who you're calling, who you are, where you are, and what you want. Fill in those four blanks and call.
 
Unless I am picking up an IFR clearance, I generally call: Chicago Approach Nxxxx with request. I either get either Nxxx state your request, or after they have handled a stream of planes, say some think like aircraft calling with request say again. To me it is short, gets their attention, lets them know I have something longer to ask, and they can choose the time to engage with me.

Most of the time I am looking to do some practice approaches at one of the local airports, and I don't like just asking for that on the initial call up.

I learned my lesson years ago trying to pick up FF out of Chicago, so I never do it (they are supposed to be better now), but if I ever did I would do it the same way.
 
@Reedster if you add "VFR" to request it conveys where they should put you in their mental stack. I don't often do the shortened "request" thing, it usually ends up in more transmissions and more time overall, but when I do, I add that in there. Keeps him or her from searching around for a flight tag or strip thinking you're one of their IFRs.
 
If the request is short, why not just put it into your initial call...

Nxxxx request flight following
Nxxxx request practice approaches at XXX

That way they at least know what you want and they can get the details from you later.
 
oregonboy109 said:
I look at it like they would probably prefer me calling up and getting ff even on a busy freq since they then know my intentions and can plan accordingly rather than guessing what my route/alt may be. I think it makes their job easier in the end. This is especially true in/around busy airspace.
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we actually had some people from charlotte give a presentation at concord regional. it was very beneficial, but basically they said exactly this. they would prefer to hear from us so they know our intentions and can work us into the flow. I disagree with only giving partial information, it ends up being MORE chatter in the long run. 'say it again Bob' can confirm, but there is a right way and a wrong way to set up FF. the wrong way will still get it done, it will just take longer than it needs to, so learn the right way and get it done.
 
Call them. That is what they are there fore. If you don't, they see you on their screen and have no idea what your plans are.
Call them. As to whom you should call? Call whomever controls the airspace. If it is approach, Call approach. If it is center, call center.
Don't worry about how busy they are. They will let you know.

Your first call should just be "so in so approach, Skylane 1234"
Then wait for them to ask you for the details

At that point, "I am 2 miles north of xyz headed to abc. Request flight following"
 
No big deal,

Approach, Cessna 123 2nm north of podunk at 2k

Cessna 123 approach go ahead.

Approach Cessna 123 requesting flight following, present position direct bumfark airport.

Cessna 123 squawk 1234



No biggie


Side note, unless I'm VFR only and crossing a international boarder or flying into DC or something, I never file VFR flight plans.
 
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If they're busy and it doesn't seem like I can get a word in I won't call.
 
jordane93 said:
If they're busy and it doesn't seem like I can get a word in I won't call.
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Never had that happen and if you're around busy airspace it's better to err on the side of possibly stepping on someone and just getting it, especially if you're lower time.
 
I'd like some opinions, when you call approach, do you state the whole request on the first call or do you call approach with your tail number and wait for them to answer? When I was in training, most of the CFI's at the school taught to call with number only and wait for response, then state the request. My last CFI always stressed to do it in one shot to not tie up the already busy NY approach.

option 1
me: New York approach Cherokee 1234AB
them: Cherokee 1234AB New York
me: New York approach Cherokee 1234AB is over XXX request FF to Bradley
them: Cherokee 1234AB (a) squak 3456 or (b) unable at this time

option 2
me: New York approach Cherokee 1234AB is over XXX request FF to Bradley
them: Cherokee 1234AB (a) squak 3456 or (b) unable at this time

Thanks all, and sorry about butting in to the thread.
 
I just state my number and position and wait for them to get back to me.
 
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No matter who I am calling I start with "Denton Ground Cirrus 25MV", "Regional Approach, Cirrus 25MV", etc
Shortest possible intro and wait for their response.
 
option 1 (mostly) and option 1 only. I believe the first 2 lines of option 1 is exactly correct. the third line will get it done but I'd add the altitude you're requesting. I completely disagree with calling up with "cherokee 12345 with request". obviously you have a request, why else would u be calling.
 
When I visited the Chicago Tracon a few years ago, they gave us a written list of do's and don'ts. One of the do's was:

"First call for VFR services should be, “Chicago approach, callsign with request”."

I know different controllers at different locations do things differently, but that was how they asked us to call up. I figure I can't go wrong if I do what they request.
 
jordane93 said:
If they're busy and it doesn't seem like I can get a word in I won't call.
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This is why I recommend just telling them what you want. They'll get back to you with the details. If they're that busy, they probably won't be taking down all your details, but they will be tapping their foot waiting for your life story to end while two heavies are getting closer to a separation bust.

I've also had too many times where I've tried to give all the details at first and then get asked again. Talk about taking up too much air time!!
 
If you feel guilty, review the fuel taxes and state of the aviation trust fund. . .

But yeah, ask on the freq; listen for a minute first, then start talking. Briefly.
 
James331 said:
Never had that happen and if you're around busy airspace it's better to err on the side of possibly stepping on someone and just getting it, especially if you're lower time.
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The only time I have trouble getting a word in is transitioning the NY Class B during push times at JFK and LGA. If it's too busy I'll just go underneath the Bravo. Not that big of a deal.
 
Anymouse said:
This is why I recommend just telling them what you want. They'll get back to you with the details. If they're that busy, they probably won't be taking down all your details, but they will be tapping their foot waiting for your life story to end while two heavies are getting closer to a separation bust.

I've also had too many times where I've tried to give all the details at first and then get asked again. Talk about taking up too much air time!!
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Yea pretty much every time I'll give them a call with just my tail number and have them get back to me. If I say everything at once, 99% of the time the controller says, "aircraft calling say again." Not worth the extra breath and frequency congestion.
 
jordane93 said:
The only time I have trouble getting a word in is transitioning the NY Class B during push times at JFK and LGA. If it's too busy I'll just go underneath the Bravo. Not that big of a deal.
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lol, I've tucked under that a few times VFR too, especially when I get a small novel worth of a IFR clearance.
 
James331 said:
lol, I've tucked under that a few times VFR too, especially when I get a small novel worth of a IFR clearance.
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NY App: Cessna 12345, I have a reroute when you're ready to copy.
Me: Cessna 12345 would like to cancel IFR.:D

500ft along the shore line is beautiful.
 
denverpilot said:
@Reedster if you add "VFR" to request it conveys where they should put you in their mental stack. I don't often do the shortened "request" thing, it usually ends up in more transmissions and more time overall, but when I do, I add that in there. Keeps him or her from searching around for a flight tag or strip thinking you're one of their IFRs.
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The joke has always been that Chicago Tracon's radios don't receive VFR. if you don't say VFR, then they don't know to ignore you. But again to be fair there is a culture change happening, and I know some of the controllers will talk to a VFR plane now.
 
VFR flight plan doesn't mean anything to approach, so saying "as filed" will do nothing but confuse them and waste their time looking for something that isn't there.

I simply call with "Approach, Mooney 6719N VFR Request"

It's short, gives them the type, tail number and when they hear VFR request they already know you're looking for flight following. Most of the time they will come back with "6719N say request" at which point I'll give the full "location, destination, altitude, type, etc." but often if they are busy they just reply with a squawk, tell me to ident and ask for destination. Now they know who I am, What I am, where I am and where I'm going with precious little radio time taken. Only thing missing is altitude, and usually if they are that busy they will give me one anyways.
 
Who to call: Approach. Tower of an adjacent field is not at all appropriate unless you are in or entering their airspace.

How to call: I have gone back and forth on this...I used to just say "request" then had my CFII argue to blurt it ALL out on initial contact which I disagreed with.

Consensus I found after much research and wisdom of this forum was to use the same radio call format any time when initially contacting ATC...on the ground or in the air for almost any reason:

Who you are calling, who you are, where you are, what you want.

"Approach, Skylane 123XY departing Watsonville, Flight Following request to Fullerton"

THEN wait for their response for the rest of the information. This results in the shortest game of 20 questions over the radio.

Even spells it out in the AIM:

4-2-3. CONTACT PROCEDURES
a. Initial Contact -
1. The terms initial contact or initial callup means the first radio call you make to a given facility or the first call to a different controller or FSS specialist within a facility. Use the following format:
(a) Name of the facility being called;
(b) Your FULL aircraft identification as filed in the flight plan or as discussed under Aircraft Call Signs below;
(c) The type of message to follow or your request if it is short
(d) the word "Over" if required.

EXAMPLES:
"COLUMBIA GROUND, CESSNA THREE ONE SIX ZERO FOXTROT, IFR MEMPHIS."
"MIAMI CENTER, BARON FIVE SIX THREE HOTEL, REQUEST VFR TRAFFIC ADVISORIES."
 
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Reedster said:
The joke has always been that Chicago Tracon's radios don't receive VFR. if you don't say VFR, then they don't know to ignore you. But again to be fair there is a culture change happening, and I know some of the controllers will talk to a VFR plane now.
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That's long been a localized problem to Chicago. I wasn't addressing localized problems in a reply here. I don't fly in Chicago or near it if I can avoid it.

Only place I've ever had attitude from a controller toward a VFR flight was in Vegas and they have some particularly interesting traffic challenges in that little valley.

Other much busier places like SoCal or Phoenix or Houston? Always professional, always helpful.

I don't venture east of the Mississippi too often. Mostly due to time constraints.

As for the person who just posted the AIM, I left it out of my response because in every thread we have ever had about this, the best blurb out of someone will be that the "AIM isn't regulatory!!"

But I generally agree. The AIM is the "best practices" book and it's a rare controller that can't handle a full call up. They're professionals and a full call up gives them everything they need. They know how to multitask and even to ignore you if they're too busy to provide a non-guaranteed service. That's how I figure it.

And yes. I WILL shorten the call if the radio is super busy and has been for a while. Most anxiety about the radio being busy fades within a few minutes in most busy airspace unless it's a big "push" time (or it's Chicago).

Just fly the plane, maintain VFR, watch for traffic, stay out of the Bravo without a clearance, and listen to what's going on for a bit, to add to your situational awareness by figuring out where traffic is being vectored (knowing local intersection names helps). Call them when it quiets down.

If it never quiets down, it will once you get further out and into Center airspace. Look up the Center frequency on a chart and call them directly.

This stuff isn't that hard. It's nice to have VFR traffic advisories but if I can't get them on a long XC until I'm 20 miles out of town, so be it. No big deal. I'm VFR anyway.

There's also a great fix for all of this. Get the IR and file. Hahaha. It works really well most of the time. :)
 
Filing IFR does work, but all too often in busy airspace, you hear the dreaded words "hold for release" that you never will VFR. I can't get out of KRHV without a 10 minute delay due all the purple 737s at San Jose.

In practice, it's MUCH easier to get flight following. I've only had it denied twice, and one of those times was less than 30 minutes after a 777 crash closed SFO.
 
MAKG1 said:
Filing IFR does work, but all too often in busy airspace, you hear the dreaded words "hold for release" that you never will VFR. I can't get out of KRHV without a 10 minute delay due all the purple 737s at San Jose.

In practice, it's MUCH easier to get flight following. I've only had it denied twice, and one of those times was less than 30 minutes after a 777 crash closed SFO.
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That would be covered by the specific wording: "most of the time". Ha. As in nationwide. Most.

And the choice of where to park the airplane too. Heh.
 
The controllers around here want only the tail number/type on initial call up. It think that's probably what most controller want as well based on previous comment from controllers on this board. They may not be ready to copy everyting down if you vomit everything on initial call up, and then you have to say it all again


Brevity. Learn it love it.
 
EdFred said:
The controllers around here want only the tail number/type on initial call up. It think that's probably what most controller want as well based on previous comment from controllers on this board. They may not be ready to copy everyting down if you vomit everything on initial call up, and then you have to say it all again


Brevity. Learn it love it.
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I agree with you on brevity. Not flight following, but one busy Saturday at KAPA when the frequency was extremely busy (those from the area will know what I mean) and aircraft after aircraft were receiving "aircraft calling...remain clear of the Class D. Call us back in 5 minutes," when the frequency cleared enough for me to say anything, I called in, "Tower. Cessna 1234X. Over [local landmark]. Landing. Golf." Immediately given instructions for entering the pattern.

But for flight following, I use a variety of initial calls depending on what "feels" right at the time. So far, it's always worked out and I don't recall being asked to repeat, so it seems I'm guessing right. The one I seem to use most is just a little less brief than yours. I might leave out "what I want" but unless the frequency is so busy I expect it to be difficult to get their attention at all, I include "where I am."
 
Sorry if I'm repeating things already said. Trying to consolidate.

TK211X said:
Couple of questions.

Lets say you want to get from point A to Point B. (More than 50NM)

Point A in uncontrolled
There is a class bravo and a class delta near your airport of departure (Point A)

I'm usually hesitant to call up class bravo Approach when they are busy and try to get Flight Following. I hate being that one person who calls up in between the rush and has to start telling the controller Where I am. Where I'm trying to get FF to. I mean, thats like 4 transmissions right there. So I have several questions for some of the more experienced pilots here.
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Don't be. Flight following is workload permitting. If they are too busy to handle you for VFR advisories, they will be happy to tell you.

If you file a flight plan, that would simplify everything right? How would you call them up? "XX Approach NXXXXX requesting VFR flight following as filed?
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No. VFR flight plans do not get into the system. With a few exceptions (like the DC SFRA) they are designed for search and rescue operations to get some idea where you might be.

Would it be ok to call up the class delta tower after departure and get them to initiate flight following and bunny hop me over to approach with all my info in the system?
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Not the Tower after departure. Not all Towers will coordinate VFR flight following but for those that do, it's something you should request from Ground. If they do and can arrange it, give them some time to do it.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to make it less stressful to pick up flight following when approach is swamped.
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It should not be stressful at all. I understand why it is stressful but the answer is practice, not shortcuts.

Also, what do you personally find is an easy way to pick up flight following?
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If I am departing a towered airport that I don;t already know will refuse me, I will ask Ground on my initial call-up. "KDEP Ground. Skyhawk 1234X. FBO Ramp with Golf. Departing southeast. Can you arrange flight following?" Nothing special. Just English.

If I can't do it that way, once airborne, I call the appropriate TRACON or Center once clear of the airport traffic area. "DEP Approach. Skyhawk 1234X. Just off KDEP. Flight following to KARR." The "Just off KDEP" get's replaced with a location and altitude if I wait a bit longer. And, as EdFred points out, sometimes less is needed.

In more than 25 years of flying, I have been refused Flight Following once (although I have heard others refused from time to time) . And that was on my long solo cross country as a student pilot.
 
When calling a class B approach for VFR flight following I give them my tail number, location and altitude followed by "request".
 
oregonboy109 said:
I look at it like they would probably prefer me calling up and getting ff even on a busy freq since they then know my intentions and can plan accordingly rather than guessing what my route/alt may be. I think it makes their job easier in the end. This is especially true in/around busy airspace.
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this is what the controllers at Chicago Approach have told us. At an all-day session held and organized by controllers from Chgo Apprch, Chgo TRACON and the O'Hare and Midway towers they told the crowd assembled that they would rather pilots "bother" them (they made it clear it was no bother) with FF requests even when we're out practicing maneuvers and not necessarily on a XC flight. she assured us that they would rather know who, what and our intentions are than have to guess. the presenter added that there may be the occasional grumpy gus answering the call or workload may not allow FF requests but those occasions should be few and far between.
 
Reedster said:
The joke has always been that Chicago Tracon's radios don't receive VFR. if you don't say VFR, then they don't know to ignore you. But again to be fair there is a culture change happening, and I know some of the controllers will talk to a VFR plane now.
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I've seen and participated in several threads related to Chicago TRACON on this forum. I've said before that the biggest change was operational, not cultural. It would appear that folklore remains a popular pastime.

In 2013 the Chicago TRACON airspace underwent a major change when ORD shifted from a rotating converging runway operation into a predominantly ease/west flow parallel runway operation. The East/West flow operation eliminated much of the complexity of both flying and working the airspace. Before 2013, runway configurations could change once an hour or several times an hour. After 2013, it's rare to see a runway change during daily operations. It just doesn't happen often. The addition of RNAV arrivals ties down where aircraft fly, so that also standardized the airspace patterns (made them boring). All of these things cleaned up what was once very congested and complex airspace, and thus alleviated some of the workload your average controller faced during normal operations. Which, in turn, allows controllers the opportunity and ability to provide additional services during busier traffic conditions.

The only cultural change is the turnover of controllers hired directly after 1981. In the past two years, we have said goodbye to twelve controllers, and have certified ten new guys. This in a facility that is supposed to have 100 CPC's (Certified Professional Controllers) but has consistently had 70ish CPC's. Keeping up with attrition has become quite the task.

To the OP....

"ATC FACILITY, N123 VFR request." Keep it simple, even if the frequency appears to be void of traffic. When I hear that, I get a chance to start writing a strip and inputting your N-number into ARTS for radar tracking. By the time I say "go ahead," I have pen and strip ready to copy down the rest of your pertinent information (type aircraft, destination, routing, altitude, other requests). In the event you don't get an answer, be patient or ask in the blind, "what frequency provides radar services over (fix) at (altitude)?" There is a chance that the frequency you chose might not be the correct one, so that could be why. It could also be why you perceive being ignored - if you are on the wrong frequency, it's possible ATC might not hear you.

No matter the facility or complexity, we would rather talk to you. At least then we can get an idea what you are up to, and possibly keep you away from the grill of an Airbus.
 
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