Oxygen systems

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4RNB

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4RNB
Our C172 is likely due to return to us shortly after an engine upgrade, it will be capable of flying higher. We are considering some form of oxygen system but know little about them. I hope you will share what you use and why.
How are they filled? Or better, where?
Which system? What size tank?
What cannula and why?
Is flow continuous or does it pulse just when you inhale? How does it work for two or more people?
Do you secure the bottle in some way in the case of turbulence?
What else to know?

Thank you.
 
I went with a skyox system and their oxygen saver cannulas. Size the tank for the trips or go bigger and don’t worry about find refills at your destination.

another thing to buy is an inexpensive blood O2 tester. I’ve not followed their pricy but were $35 or so on Amazon when I got mine.
 
A 172 capable of flying high enough to need oxygen you say?
What kind of engine upgrade is it getting? A Texas turbine?
 
I had the same thought on the high flying c172.

I bought an AirOx for my family trip to AZ over spring break. It worked great for what we used it for. We didn't go too high, but it was warm and I wanted the family to be comfortable. We were up at 10500 and had 4 of us on a D size tank. It is dirt simple to use. For a once in a while trip, I felt it was perfect.
 
FORANE said:
A 172 capable of flying high enough to need oxygen you say?
What kind of engine upgrade is it getting? A Texas turbine?
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I have a Warrior with a 180HP (so, the performance of an Archer or Cherokee 180) and routinely go to 13,000. In fact, we just finished a trip where a good amount of the last two days was spent there. My wife and I drained a 22cf tank in that time, although most of our time was in block 11-13.

In cooler months I’ve been to 15,000 several times to avoid icing. Yes, a 180hp normally aspirated engine takes a good while to get there but there are times when it’s definitely nice to be able to do so.

We tend to use ours at 10,000 and above; it definitely makes us feel better even though we could legally go without it many times.

We have a Precise Flight system and I’m happy with it. It was the best value at the time we got it but that may have changed. They’re all safe and reliable. I have one 22cf and one 15cf tank. Having two tanks is a big help if you’re doing a lot of xc.
 
Where do you fill them up at? Have I missed listings in Foreflight for airports that can/do fill them?

I am making no claims of climb rate, just know that the ceiling is increasing. My SO will also feel better having it available for her.

Do you secure these things in some way in the event of turbulence?
 
You can fill them at any industrial gas location - the best way though is to set up a transfilling station in your hangar with a two-cylinder cascade and you will never have to worry about it again.

As far as securing it, you can get carrying bags for the cylinders and accessories.

Use it anytime above 8,000' and you will feel great - especially after the flight!
 
Cherokee 180 here, O2 cylinder in a carry bag that has 4 attachment buckles and a hefty strap. The strap is vertical around the back seat, the carry bag attaches to the strap. Unlikely 4 buckles will fail at once. Yes, having a 2-step filling unit is convenient but you need a hangar and the willingness to set up the filling station. If you do that much XC, it may be worth the time & effort. Also check local airport rules to have the set up. Otherwise check Airnav or just the airports you’ll be visiting to see if they have O2 refills available. If you’re on good terms with your Dr, get an rx for O2 and then get refill at the local medical supply shop. You’ll also need to have the bottles re-certified every 5 years.
 
4RNB said:
Where do you fill them up at? Have I missed listings in Foreflight for airports that can/do fill them?
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I’m not a FF user but AirNav.com shows O2 availability. That said, that’s typically the most expensive route by a wide margin - 2 to 3 times or more what you pay at a welding supply place. For those, it’s a bit hit or miss: if you imply you’re using it to aerate your bait tank or aquarium they don’t seem to mind. If you say it’s for flying, some will balk. And if your valves are standard medical ones they’re much more likely to balk.

I recently found a medical gas company that will come by and pick it up, fill it, then drop it off. He did the hydro inspection for $15 on a 15cf tank and filled it for $6 (compared to $14 at a welding shop). He did charge a $20 delivery fee but I think that’s per trip - not per tank. I’m going to see about rounding up tanks on the Airpark to make the delivery charge less of an issue. In any case, you may want to call medical gas places to explore options. Just make sure they can fill the type of valve you have.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
I’m not a FF user but AirNav.com shows O2 availability. That said, that’s typically the most expensive route by a wide margin - 2 to 3 times or more what you pay at a welding supply place. For those, it’s a bit hit or miss: if you imply you’re using it to aerate your bait tank or aquarium they don’t seem to mind. If you say it’s for flying, some will balk. And if your valves are standard medical ones they’re much more likely to balk.

I recently found a medical gas company that will come by and pick it up, fill it, then drop it off. He did the hydro inspection for $15 on a 15cf tank and filled it for $6 (compared to $14 at a welding shop). He did charge a $20 delivery fee but I think that’s per trip - not per tank. I’m going to see about rounding up tanks on the Airpark to make the delivery charge less of an issue. In any case, you may want to call medical gas places to explore options. Just make sure they can fill the type of valve you have.
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Thanks, If we are on a XC, just want to know how to get it done. What type of tanks do airports fill? bait/aquarium or medical?
 
Mountain High delivery system. Cannulae. Fill tank where you like locally, use FBO and pay the premium if on the road. Form many years experience, mostly in turbo piston aircraft. Finger oxygen saturation meter in airplane. And you don't even need a scrip from Dr. Blue anymore. CVS.
 
I have a Saturn Oxygen system that was installed in my plane at nearly-new.

It's something along the lines of a "Jumbo D" tank installed at the rear of the plane.

I can take it out and drive it to an industrial gas vendor, very nearby, for around $18.

I can call-out the line service to have it filled for around $60.

A 172 regularly at Oxygen levels? Really?
 
Read this thread - lot of great information on O2 system. And yes, I use O2 when flying X country in the 172 at 9000. Don't need it, but it makes flying so much better. No feeling "off" after flying, not as tired, etc.

BTW - I use SkyOx regulator and two cannulas. I get my O2 at the local welding supply store - they do a tank exchange similar to the propane bottle exchange at Home Depot. Something like $15 or $20 dollars.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/supplemental-oxygen-changed-our-flying.136364/
 
4RNB said:
What type of tanks do airports fill? bait/aquarium or medical?
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LOL. I’m not sure there’s actually a valve type for aerating bait tanks or aquariums (aquaria?).

I honestly don’t know what types of valves most airport-based refillers can work with. I suspect any on a PreciseFlight, Skyox, or Mountain High tank would be fine but a medical one may be problematic. Just a guess.
 
I use a single place Mountain High system in my glider. I think it is an E size 24cu/ft bottle in the glider. It will last me probably 50+hours flying between 5000-10000 feet. I use it at those altitudes just because I tend to do long flights (4-5 hours) and usually feel better after the flight when using it. Flying from 10000-18000 feet a full bottle will last me about 20+ hours. I have I think a Large N size bottle that I fill about every 2 years, and a trans fill line to transfer to my E bottle. It easily lasts me about 160 hours of flying probably 60 of those hours above 10k. I also share the N bottle with other pilots so it would last longer if I was the only other one using it. It costs me about $40 to exchange for a full bottle.

Best thing about the Mountain High system is I turn it on at take off and forget about it the rest of the flight. It is a pulse system so provides O2 when you breath in. It will warn if the Oxygen get low or if it stops detecting you breathing, (like a disconnected o2 line, that I have had happen to me on a continuous flow system). It also automatically adjusts the O2 flow based on the altitude.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I wouldn’t mess with O2 in a 172. I’ve flown to AK, out West, just out to Salt Lake 2+ months ago. There are plenty of ways to mitigate, not sure if I even trust the tube to the nose either.
 
sourdough44 said:
I wouldn’t mess with O2 in a 172. I’ve flown to AK, out West, just out to Salt Lake 2+ months ago. There are plenty of ways to mitigate, not sure if I even trust the tube to the nose either.
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Don’t believe that cannulas will give you 02? Well, OK then…….
 
Take this all with a grain of salt as I haven't used mine at altitude yet...

The two valve types are cga-870 (medical post) and cga-540 (aviation and industrial). There is an adapter: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08L4765TM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 that will allow fbo's to fill medical tanks. I bought a medical tank as the tank & regulator are cheaper, and the cga-870 should be easier to find a fill AWAY from the fbo for less money. Only downside is they may want a prescription. My a&p took mine over to the Jet shop (where they fill the built in tanks) and filled it for me as a favor, using the above adapter.

The math says my "e" tank will last 10 hours at 1L/min, which is my plan to feed 2 people at .5 lpm. The regulator will also go down to .5lpm if I'm solo. I bought a constant flow regulator because they are dirt cheap and I don't expect to use it more than a couple hours in a trip. I did buy the oxymizer cannulas, again they're cheaper on Amazon or through a medical supply house than an aviation seller.

I'm about $200 all-in. I didn't want to spend a lot as i don't think I'll just it that much. I use a pulse oximeter pretty regularly and altitude doesn't effect my o2 sats much. I was thinking this trip out west it might be nice to have, but the winds and DA have kept us pretty low so far.
 
Mountain High makes a pulse delivery system that delivers a proper sized pulse of O2 when you inhale. You need to use special cannulas or a mask with it. It uses about 1/4 the O2 of the normal systems.

Most systems are continuous flow. And should have some sort of meter and adjustment to regulate the flow to reduce the O2 flow at lower altitudes.

There are O2 saving cannulas that trap some of the overflow from the constant flow, so you can use it.

A pulse oximeter is highly recommended to check YOUR O2 saturation level to adjust the flow properly.

You do a setup to fill the bottle at home or in your hanger. All the suppliers sell the bits and pieces or complete setups. You just get to large O2 bottles from your local gas supplier. You use two bottles, so that once the first bottle is down on pressure, you can fill your bottle to the level, then top off with the other bottle. When the second bottle starts to get to the point you cannot get a full fill, you replace the first bottle (low pressure) and make the former #2 into #1.
 
I never did it, but after taking the chamber ride and aviation physiology course, I really opened my eyes to the benefits of O2 even down at around maybe 4,000ft to 8,000ft range...especially at night. I think it's a great idea!!
A long time ago when I was heavy into mixed gas SCUBA I cobled together a little O2 tank that was a surplus government thing, I bought form the guy I was learning technical trimix gas blending from ... I have no idea what it was out of...I have imagined it might have been an ejection seat bail out bottle...something like that. I bought a canula and regulator from Mountain High or Skyox or one of those....but never really had a chance to use it since i haven't flow much since then...
 
I carry a portable unit (mine is Nelson/Precise). I would recommend one of the demand regulators like Precise or MountainHigh. They really prolong the bottle life and its a royal pain to run out of oxygen.
 
I did get an oximeter recently. OK, I won’t rip on the tubes, but I still say, why bother in a C-172?

Are we gonna have that sharper mind with the 02?
 
FORANE said:
A 172 capable of flying high enough to need oxygen you say?
What kind of engine upgrade is it getting? A Texas turbine?
Click to expand...
The FAA recommends O2 at cabin pressures above 6000 at night. Pretty sure a 172 can easily exceed that.
 
Aviatordoc said:
Portable oxygen concentrator. Works well.
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Up to what altitude and which models?

I looked into this a while back and, while you can get some very inexpensive ones on Amazon, it sounds like they’re essentially ineffective above 10,000 feet. I know Inogen sells an aviation one, so I assume it’s better at higher altitudes but even for that one, it sounds like it needs to be used often for it to work consistently. For someone with a turbo flying frequently, that would make sense. For the occasional user, such as myself and my Warrior, it seemed less useful.

I’m genuinely asking and appreciate thoughts based on real-world experience. I may have missed the mark on all of the above.
 
Real world: the kind of plane makes zero difference, 172 or whatever faster more powerful plane, it’s the pilot sucking on thinner air that matters.

Real world: 182 pilot here. My O2 can get low at 7k and higher, I’m older, and my brain is foggy after a long flight, let alone the thinner air. I’ve spent days at 9,500 (elk hunt), and I was miserable. Just like medications, food, alcohol, chemicals, etc affect different humans differently, so to does altitude. I use O2 at 7k and higher. I’m trying to be at the top of my game, no compromises.

Real world: Craigslist used medical O2 bottles. Amazon new regular ol’ cannulas (tubing, up your nose). FB market place used regulators. New O2 monitor from CVS. I experimented with the monitor and found my own altitude limitations.

Real world: I used a “regular” regulator that dumps __ liters of O2 based on the setting. I ran a small piece of tubing into a T to split the flow to share with pax/co-pilot. Worked fine. Uses a lot of O2. Bottles don’t last long enough to be practical for weekly flight use. Burn through a small bottle in 2-3 hrs at lower flows.

Real world: I found a demand regulator by accident. It came in the box of regular ones, but was bulky, so I dismissed it for use outright. I was swapping regulators one day and decided to see if it even worked. When I turned it on, it didn’t flow. But something about the label made me try something - I put the cannula on to try it and lo and behold, it only flowed on inhaling. It only used 25% of one of my big bottles over a 5 hour period. Not sure if and how it would work with a T, but most of my flights are solo. I could always get more of these regs for pax/copilot.

Mounting and bottle sizes are too much to type this morning. PM and I send you my number, I’ll talk you thru what I do.
 
sourdough44 said:
I did get an oximeter recently. OK, I won’t rip on the tubes, but I still say, why bother in a C-172?

Are we gonna have that sharper mind with the 02?
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Besides the FAA regs, some of us regularly fly in the mid teens in c172 or equivalent (my cherokee 180) out here in the hills. Age is also an impact. There are many advantages to O2 even lower. FAA and other organizations studies have found people react differently and need O2 at the lower altitudes. Your physiology may not need O2 until much higher. I’m always on O2 for any flight over 2 hrs or anytime at night. Less headaches after a long flight. Better color vision at night. Your mileage may vary.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Up to what altitude and which models?

I looked into this a while back and, while you can get some very inexpensive ones on Amazon, it sounds like they’re essentially ineffective above 10,000 feet. I know Inogen sells an aviation one, so I assume it’s better at higher altitudes but even for that one, it sounds like it needs to be used often for it to work consistently. For someone with a turbo flying frequently, that would make sense. For the occasional user, such as myself and my Warrior, it seemed less useful.

I’m genuinely asking and appreciate thoughts based on real-world experience. I may have missed the mark on all of the above.
Click to expand...

Many in the experimental world are using the inogen5 which does very well. There is no requirement to run it frequently. It is and can function on demand. It is good upto 14K feet according to the company.
The only constraint is, it has to be physically turned on with the push of a button. Wish they added a small remote for it.
 
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Aviatordoc said:
Many in the experimental world are using the inogen5 which does very well. There is requirement to run it frequently. It is and can function on demand. It is good upto 14K feet according to the company.
The only constraint is, it has to be physically turned on with the push of a button. Wish they added a small remote for it.
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Interesting - thanks. That would seem to constrain the audience quite a bit: not really for turbos (14K) and really only for people going, say, 9 to 14 on a regular basis (to run it frequently). Hopefully the technology will advance on both accounts.
 
Can the SkyOx system be used in planes that have built-in tanks? I see adapters offered but not much information about what systems (planes) they adapt to. My interest in in Cessna T210s.
 
Aviatordoc said:
Many in the experimental world are using the inogen5 which does very well. There is requirement to run it frequently.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I hadn't heard this before. Does infrequent usage cause the columns to fail quicker than the 18-24 month replacement interval?
 
gbanker said:
Can the SkyOx system be used in planes that have built-in tanks? I see adapters offered but not much information about what systems (planes) they adapt to. My interest in in Cessna T210s.
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The SkyOx system is really the regulator and its cannulas. The regulator is attached on top of a standard O2 tank, so while it may fit, you wouldn’t be able to reach it to operate.

You could I suppose run a long O2 line to the front of the plane, screw together some fittings and then screw the regulator to that.
 
WDD said:
You could I suppose run a long O2 line to the front of the plane, screw together some fittings and then screw the regulator to that.
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Not a good idea given the psi of the o2.
 
I went with mixed system. I got rid of the nose cannulas and switched to the Mountain High EZ Breath Boom Cannula with the oxysaver, way more comfortable.

Blog and Video
 
murphey said:
Cherokee 180 here, O2 cylinder in a carry bag that has 4 attachment buckles and a hefty strap. The strap is vertical around the back seat, the carry bag attaches to the strap. Unlikely 4 buckles will fail at once. Yes, having a 2-step filling unit is convenient but you need a hangar and the willingness to set up the filling station. If you do that much XC, it may be worth the time & effort. Also check local airport rules to have the set up. Otherwise check Airnav or just the airports you’ll be visiting to see if they have O2 refills available. If you’re on good terms with your Dr, get an rx for O2 and then get refill at the local medical supply shop. You’ll also need to have the bottles re-certified every 5 years.
Click to expand...

This carry back and buckle system, is the a product for sale somewhere or did you make it? Can you share a picture?

I am researching the systems folks advised, but have a tough time picturing securing it in the cabin. It is one thing to get hit by a soft sided flight bag, likely quite another by an O2 cylinder.
 
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