Overhead Approaches
- Thread starter Cpt_Kirk
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AcroGimp
Cleared for Takeoff
We use overheads in formation flying all the time to get several ships down in short order, and I prefer them when single-ship as well.
Better SA as you approach and overfly the airfield, and much better view of the long/short final traffic and runway since they usually involve a curved or dog-leg approach as opposed to the rectangular pattern.
We usually break mid-field at 130-150 knots, get down to gear and flap speed during the break turn, and are configured at the perch - for warbird flying (high wing loading, high drag) it is absolutely the safest way to get into the field compared to dragging it in from 3 miles out.
'Gimp
Better SA as you approach and overfly the airfield, and much better view of the long/short final traffic and runway since they usually involve a curved or dog-leg approach as opposed to the rectangular pattern.
We usually break mid-field at 130-150 knots, get down to gear and flap speed during the break turn, and are configured at the perch - for warbird flying (high wing loading, high drag) it is absolutely the safest way to get into the field compared to dragging it in from 3 miles out.
'Gimp
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Velocity173
If your planes cruises faster than 100 kts, do them all day, all night and look good while you're doing it!
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Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hey, I do them occasionally in the Waco and I'm only pushing 90 max cruise!If your planes cruises faster than 100 kts, do them all day, all night and look good while you're doing it!
But I like to do them due to the crap forward visibility of the biplane.
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Velocity173
90 kts! I thought that thing had a big hunkin' radial on it?
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
It does. But it is a biplane. Seems it doesn't matter what you hang on the front - they generally go about 85-90!
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Velocity173
Well it's a Waco and it makes cool sounds so I'll grant you an overhead waiver. Plus you've got one of the best paint schemes I've seen.
dtuuri
Final Approach
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
perfectly safe if you don't just force your way into a non controlled pattern. They are a great manuever to practice engine out off airport landings
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
KSZP uses it as their recommended pattern entry. I've seen others but can't recall them offhand
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
2 hours ago I was departing a desert airport and there were two navy planes in the pattern doing them. They were making calls but I am not familiar with the terminology. One had said he was "high xwind ___ ___" so I thought I had a lot of time as he was not in sight. I announced departing, and moved over the hold short line. As soon as I moved, he appeared over my head and announced in military lingo something else and I stopped (no where near the rwy) and told him to c'mon in. He was over the numbers in a few seconds which was surprising.
I didn't see a problem and happily accommodated him - he expressed thanks.
I must learn more about this, is it in the AIM?
I didn't see a problem and happily accommodated him - he expressed thanks.
I must learn more about this, is it in the AIM?
An AgCat does 115 with 600 hp on it or 300hp on it.
The only difference is the ability to get off the runway with a full load.
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Velocity173
It is. There's a pattern description in ch5 and a definition in the P/C glossary.
AcroGimp
Cleared for Takeoff
Paragraph 5.4.27 in the AIM - Overhead Approach Maneuver, addressed as the termination of an IFR Flight Plan in VMC.
Most of the SoCal Tower Controllers (Fed and Contract) are familiar and are very accommodating, and we use it at uncontrolled fields as well but with more radio contact to make sure traffic understands what we are doing.
'Gimp
Most of the SoCal Tower Controllers (Fed and Contract) are familiar and are very accommodating, and we use it at uncontrolled fields as well but with more radio contact to make sure traffic understands what we are doing.
'Gimp
Unless you're breaking a formation approach, I don't see the point, why not just come straight in? 
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Velocity173
An AgCat does 115 with 600 hp on it or 300hp on it.
Now you're approaching AN-2 territory. Always wanted to fly one of those. Like flying a big barn around.
Cpt_Kirk
En-Route
I found out recently that it's a nice way to slow the Mooney down when it's an option. I just wanted some more opinions before I spoke.
"I don't fly a fast airplane to go slow."
Because Mooney.
"I don't fly a fast airplane to go slow."
Unless you're breaking a formation approach, I don't see the point, why not just come straight in?
Because Mooney.
Ok, but I don't see the advantage to coming smoking into the pattern then doing a circle to land while slowing down. Seems like the time factor is about the same as starting to slow a couple miles out and using a bit of slipping to scrub speed as required on a straight in to the runway.
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Velocity173
Unless you're breaking a formation approach, I don't see the point, why not just come straight in?
I agree with Gimp, it's an easier and safer way to enter the pattern. Only problem is, not everyone is doing it and some guys don't do any standard method to it. A flight breaking into some guy on the 45 who has no clue what an overhead is can get ugly. I've seen aircraft broadcasting the "overhead" but yet they just do a high speed pass down the runway and pitch up to the downwind. That's not an overhead.
It's true value is for military IFRs coming back as a flight. It's the easiest way to get them to the field. If you split a flight of four for individual IAPs or even two sections you've got a larger chunk of airspace to protect for now. They're flying slower and they're IFR all the way until landing threshold. With the overhead, they automatically become VFR at the initial. No traffic you have to worry about getting them to see and follow. "Maintain two thousand five hundred until the 5 mile initial, contact xyz tower." Done.
Cpt_Kirk
En-Route
Ok, but I don't see the advantage to coming smoking into the pattern then doing a circle to land while slowing down. Seems like the time factor is about the same as starting to slow a couple miles out and using a bit of slipping to scrub speed as required on a straight in to the runway.
tlglenn
Line Up and Wait
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Ted
I find it useful in a glider when I arrive over the field well above pattern altitude and there's no conflicting traffic.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Uhh... nobody should be coming across from upwind at midfield. Period. And the AIM makes clear these are "established" patterns, not ad hoc ones except at controlled fields.
dtuuri
35 AoA
Pattern Altitude
Ok, but I don't see the advantage to coming smoking into the pattern then doing a circle to land while slowing down. Seems like the time factor is about the same as starting to slow a couple miles out and using a bit of slipping to scrub speed as required on a straight in to the runway.
For one, it is what we do every VFR flight at military fields (or at the boat for that matter). Not that such a reason is always the answer, but it is comfortable and familiar. Clearly there are reasons NOT to depending on the field, amount of traffic, familiarity with mil jet traffic, etc etc.
Other reason is that it saves a bit of gas. Rather than dirtying up at 6-7 miles and flying with everything hanging out at a higher power setting, you can quickly get to the field, dirty in the break turn, be on speed in landing configuration abeam the numbers, and be on deck in another 40-50 seconds. You CAN dirty up much closer to the field than 6 miles, but it becomes incrementally more varsity trying to get to a stabilized approach dirtying up at say 2-3 miles. Doable, but for me, either I'm doing the overhead, an instrument approach if the weather dictates it, or maybe a visual straight in if the scenario dictates that being a better choice. I'm personally not real big on doing the break/overhead at civilian fields that don't handle a lot of mil traffic, but that's just me. I'd rather be speaking the same language and predictable for the rest of the guys out there sharing the pattern, not to mention that showing up over the numbers at 350-400 knots is not always the smart thing to do.
Just my .02
Approach_controller
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Approach_controller
I work the overhead at 3 of my 5 controlled airports. Works great. Lets the jet bleed speed in the turn, no need to slow to butt clinching speeds to follow the Lear and makes them VFR. The only kicker is waiting for the jet in front to get 500 feet below overhead pattern altitude which is normally just inside the marker on marginal days.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
It is pretty sweet. Thanks! Did you happen to see it when it was at Tullahoma getting restored?
dtuuri
Final Approach
Right...the deadly midfield xwind entry.
Yep, it gets more deadly as more do it. The more experience you get, though, the more you realize the folly of it. This thread is just grasping for a rationalization to hot-dog it in the pattern, impress the spectators and have some cheap thrills. See it for what it is.
dtuuri
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Velocity173
Nah, didn't know you had it there. Was it in the Beechcraft Museum? Last time I walked thru there was the summer of 2013.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, there is a retired Delta Captain who lives along the runway at THA. He finished the resto there at his home/hangar and then I bought it from him in December.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Are you saying that crossing midfield to enter the downwind is "dangerous"?
If so, apparently every airport I fly into is experiencing a serious safety issue, because that's the second most common entry to the pattern, followed by straight in approaches.
All of which work just fine, BTW.
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danhagan
En-Route
Am guesing you were near the Las Cruces NM airport? A LOT of military training activity there right now ... they're doing all right hand pattern work to avoid the GA planes.
dtuuri
Final Approach
BigBadLou
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Lou
Ok, I gotta see this fight to the end ... 
35 AoA
Pattern Altitude
Well, the correct way to enter downwind from midfield, ie the "overhead" is to do it above traffic pattern altitude. Typically 500' above at most USAF and civilian fields with a published overhead pattern, 200' above at many USN/USMC fields. Either way, it allows you clear your flight path/clear downwind for any traffic conflict with some altitude separation. Once established on downwind, you descend to TPA and continue your business. As a good technique, I will periodically roll out some angle of bank during the break turn to conduct "belly checks" and make sure nobody is converging with me on downwind. Done properly, with the same good visual lookout you need to safely execute any other type of VFR pattern entry, it is by no means dangerous. That having been said, the associated higher airspeed can create pattern spacing problems for folks who aren't used to it, and aren't used to the correct sight picture of when to actually start their turn based on a known interval on downwind. So in other words, you can easily goon up a well flowing traffic pattern if you don't know what you are doing, though IMHO not generally in a dangerous sense.