Oshkosh Accident today?

[Jay Honeck]

Especially if you are stale like Henning was. He probably hadn't flown in months before this trip.<br/>

I don't know about Henning's particular situation, but this is a very good point. I personally know pilots who fly very irregularly who attend OSH regularly.

It's an odd dichotomy. I also know pilots who fly every few days who lack the confidence to fly into OSH. Both are probably at greater risk.

 

[wanttaja]

I think the return flights do count. I need to be home to work/family on a predictable schedule. Which meant that Thursday's delay put me 3 hours behind the "weather window" I'd identified for making an easy flight. The 3 hour delay caused the en-route weather to deteriorate from "Great" to "OK". Another 30 minutes and I might have needed to overnight somewhere or push hard to get home in worsening weather.

Yes, but is that unique to Oshkosh, or something that may happen on any long trip? What's unique about Get-Home-Itis when Oshkosh is the departure point?

The way I see it, Oshkosh is a unique challenge because:

1. It's a very attractive destination...it's like a swimming pool on a 100-degree day that's hosting a convention of the Federated Ladies Of Opulent Z-Rated Internet Entertainment Shows (FLOOZIES).

2. It's got hard dates...It's over by X, so enroute delays are a problem.

3. It tends to "fill up" and if you aren't there at the right time, you aren't going to have a parking space. Hence the impetus to get, at least, in the vicinity.

4. It's in the Midwest, in the middle of summer with the attendant risks of thunderstorms.

5. It has the densest air traffic in the world, far beyond the normal experience of any attendee.

6. Aircraft are often packed to the gills for the trip (camping gear, purchases for the return, etc.) and thus the aircraft behave differently (and are less forgiving) from what the pilot is used to.

7. It is especially attractive to those new to aviation, and whose flying skills may not be up to the challenges of 4, 5, and 6 above, and who may not be as aware of Get-There/Back-Itis. It's like teenagers when the FLOOZIES convention is in town.

Note that I am not in any way blaming EAA or Airventure for any of this...If I have a car accident driving to the movie theater, it's not Warner Brothers' fault.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Ted]

That's a very good point, one I hadn't considered. However, it would seem that the "pressure's off" on the return, and that the return flights shouldn't count against the Oshkosh toll. No greater risk on the return than any other GA cross-country.

Bill Watson's point is a good one, though, the draw of Oshkosh might tend to attract pilots whose long-distance skills aren't up to the challenge.

Ron Wanttaja

Ron, thanks for looking into this and providing info. Like you, I don't blame EAA or the event for fatals or any crashes. People choose to make bad choices.

I'd think the trip home would typically have less get-there-itis, but still some. People who aren't used to flying on a schedule need to get to work on Monday, and leave Sunday. Me, I call my boss and say "Sorry, ain't making it in" if I can't, some might not be willing to do that.

The benefit at my old job was I'd landed in a thunderstorm with my boss right seat (a very, very bad idea that I learned a lot from about what not to do), so when I told him I couldn't make it back he said "If you can't make it back, it must be real ****!"

 

[txflyer]

We saw the smoke from the breezy crash.

It was a somber moment for sure.

OSH arrival wasn't so bad, but being my first time, I was a little nervous.

 

[gprellwitz]

I found out yesterday that the pilot who died was an acquaintance of mine. In fact, we were in discussions with him to enter into a partnership on a Cessna 210. The passenger was apparently a young (21 y.o.) female volunteer. The plane wasn't his, but belonged to one of my friends at Clow.

 

[RV10flyer]

I found out yesterday that the pilot who died was an acquaintance of mine. In fact, we were in discussions with him to enter into a partnership on a Cessna 210. The passenger was apparently a young (21 y.o.) female volunteer. The plane wasn't his, but belonged to one of my friends at Clow.

Very sorry to hear that.

 

[charheep]

I found out yesterday that the pilot who died was an acquaintance of mine. In fact, we were in discussions with him to enter into a partnership on a Cessna 210. The passenger was apparently a young (21 y.o.) female volunteer. The plane wasn't his, but belonged to one of my friends at Clow.

I see that plane every year at the Clow airport days. Told my wife about it and she was sad about it. Not that she would ever go in a Breezy, but it hit close to home.
RIP.

 

[Turningfinal]

I found out yesterday that the pilot who died was an acquaintance of mine. In fact, we were in discussions with him to enter into a partnership on a Cessna 210. The passenger was apparently a young (21 y.o.) female volunteer. The plane wasn't his, but belonged to one of my friends at Clow.

Yup, it was Jim flying Arnie's breezy. A friend and fellow EAA461 member.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Yup, it was Jim flying Arnie's breezy. A friend and fellow EAA461 member.

Any word on what happened? We've heard everything from a botched landing to a messed up departure -- and everything in between.

Considering the number of people who could have witnessed this fatal crash, there is surprisingly little hard data on what actually took place.

 

[steingar]

I found out yesterday that the pilot who died was an acquaintance of mine. In fact, we were in discussions with him to enter into a partnership on a Cessna 210. The passenger was apparently a young (21 y.o.) female volunteer. The plane wasn't his, but belonged to one of my friends at Clow.

I am so very sorry Grant. I was hoping that would not be the case.

I was actually quite worried about myself, as I hadn't a lot of recent flight experience before the Osh trip, which was my first long cross country flight in quite some time. I suspect I wasn't alone in this regard.

 

[Bill Watson]

I'd think the trip home would typically have less get-there-itis, but still some. People who aren't used to flying on a schedule need to get to work on Monday, and leave Sunday. Me, I call my boss and say "Sorry, ain't making it in" if I can't, some might not be willing to do that.

I thought I had 'get there-itis' pretty much under control. It's gotten even easier in retirement.

The parts I handled well on this departure home; Pulling out of the takeoff line with fouled plugs and taking a walk and sit down away from my passengers. Once the problem was found and fixed, not hurrying to try and get out before the air show.

But Oshkosh can be a special challenge. I definitely had 'get out of there-itis' which had me departing into a small T-storm over the airport. I'll drop a dime on a hotel and rental car in a minute, but that just wasn't an option last minute at Osh. I just couldn't face unpacking, re-tenting and the clean porta-jons another night.

 

[Turningfinal]

Any word on what happened? We've heard everything from a botched landing to a messed up departure -- and everything in between.

Considering the number of people who could have witnessed this fatal crash, there is surprisingly little hard data on what actually took place.

Jay - check your PMs.

I do have some great news to share, though. The passenger (a volunteer) was released from the hospital yesterday and was allowed to go home! She did get banged up but looks like she's on the solid road to recovery.

 

[gprellwitz]

Jay - check your PMs.

I do have some great news to share, though. The passenger (a volunteer) was released from the hospital yesterday and was allowed to go home! She did get banged up but looks like she's on the solid road to recovery.

That's great news that I hadn't heard before!

And I'm not going to speculate on what happened. I know Jim was an experienced pilot.

 

[Jim Logajan]

OK...got that one whipped. Attached is a summary of both fatal accidents at Oshkosh, and fatals where the NTSB report states the plane was going to or coming from the Fly-In. Dates are constrained to the fly-in period. Total was 66 fatal accidents from 1982 through 2013. This includes all types of airplanes, certified and experimental. A total of 110 lives were lost. Most years saw an Oshkosh-related accident *somewhere*.

I don't see any Cessna 172 crashes in your list. Not sure that is terribly meaningful given the nature of aircraft likely to fly in, but since there are more of that make and model than any others, it is still interesting.

 

[wanttaja]

I don't see any Cessna 172 crashes in your list. Not sure that is terribly meaningful given the nature of aircraft likely to fly in, but since there are more of that make and model than any others, it is still interesting.

That is indeed an interesting catch. I expanded the list to include both fatal and non-fatal accidents (the list I posted was fatal only) and there STILL were only two C-172s.

Maybe the other Skyhawk drivers were too embarrassed to admit they're on their way to Oshkosh...

Ron Wanttaja

 

[RV10flyer]

Any word on what happened? We've heard everything from a botched landing to a messed up departure -- and everything in between.

Considering the number of people who could have witnessed this fatal crash, there is surprisingly little hard data on what actually took place.

2014 crash:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20140731X70148&key=1

1992 crash:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001211X16137&key=1

 

[Palmpilot]

That is indeed an interesting catch. I expanded the list to include both fatal and non-fatal accidents (the list I posted was fatal only) and there STILL were only two C-172s.

Maybe the other Skyhawk drivers were too embarrassed to admit they're on their way to Oshkosh...

Ron Wanttaja

I find myself wondering why anybody cares what other people think of what aircraft type they're flying.

 

[jesse]

Yes, but is that unique to Oshkosh, or something that may happen on any long trip? What's unique about Get-Home-Itis when Oshkosh is the departure point?

The way I see it, Oshkosh is a unique challenge because:

1. It's a very attractive destination...it's like a swimming pool on a 100-degree day that's hosting a convention of the Federated Ladies Of Opulent Z-Rated Internet Entertainment Shows (FLOOZIES).

2. It's got hard dates...It's over by X, so enroute delays are a problem.

3. It tends to "fill up" and if you aren't there at the right time, you aren't going to have a parking space. Hence the impetus to get, at least, in the vicinity.

4. It's in the Midwest, in the middle of summer with the attendant risks of thunderstorms.

5. It has the densest air traffic in the world, far beyond the normal experience of any attendee.

6. Aircraft are often packed to the gills for the trip (camping gear, purchases for the return, etc.) and thus the aircraft behave differently (and are less forgiving) from what the pilot is used to.

7. It is especially attractive to those new to aviation, and whose flying skills may not be up to the challenges of 4, 5, and 6 above, and who may not be as aware of Get-There/Back-Itis. It's like teenagers when the FLOOZIES convention is in town.

Note that I am not in any way blaming EAA or Airventure for any of this...If I have a car accident driving to the movie theater, it's not Warner Brothers' fault.

Ron Wanttaja

As always, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with the above. One has to really pay attention to what the hell they're doing when you're going in there. Number 6 is of particular challenge to me in the Flybaby because I never have it loaded like I have it loaded when I go to Airventure and the landing characteristics are quite noticeably different. CG is dramatically more aft than my normal flying and climb performance is basically non-existent.

 

[txflyer]

I was empathizing with some of the taildraggers that were coming in on 36 the Sunday we got there and the next day because there was a blustery crosswind they were dealing with.

I'm glad they gave us 27.

A citabria ahead of us requested 27 after being given 36, but the controller said "can't do it citabria, you need to follow FISK avenue to 36."

 

[steingar]

A citabria ahead of us requested 27 after being given 36, but the controller said "can't do it citabria, you need to follow FISK avenue to 36."

Same here, and it was pretty blustery. That said, the day I can't land my Cherokee in a little crosswind is the day I hang it up. On the dot no problems at all.

 

[fiveoboy01]

I'd say that on sunday it was more than a "little" crosswind.

 

[jhausch]

Any more info on the circumstances leading up to the crash, yet?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

True, but I've seen people push weather, fuel, and W&B for Osh specifically. All of those contribute to higher risk en route. I'd bet you see more people do it for Osh specifically vs "ordinary" flying.

Well... I bet the only "high risk" portion was that within ~25 miles of Wittman Field. Everything else should have been just "ordinary" flying risk.

Well, I'd say it's a lot more than just 25nm. The entire southern half of the state and northern Illinois can get pretty busy. Keep in mind in the shots below, the aircraft you see are only the ones that (1) forgot to turn off their transponders within 30nm of KOSH (for those who are within 30nm) AND have an ADS-B Out equipped aircraft nearby - And with the storm pic you can see that Ted is absolutely right:

 

[gprellwitz]

The preliminary accident report is available: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20140731X70148&key=1

NTSB Identification: CEN14FA399
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Thursday, July 31, 2014 in Oshkosh, WI
Aircraft: ZIMMERMAN BREEZY, registration: N3AZ
Injuries: 1 Fatal,1 Serious.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.

On July 31, 2014, about 0857 central daylight time, an experimental amateur-built Zimmerman Breezy airplane, N3AZ, exited runway 36R at the Wittman Regional Airport (OSH), near Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and impacted parked vehicles east of the runway. A ground fire subsequently occurred. The pilot was fatally injured and the passenger sustained serious injuries. The airplane sustained substantial wing and fuselage damage. The airplane was registered to A Z Air Lease Inc. and operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 as personal flight. Day visual flight rules conditions prevailed for the flight, which did not operate on a flight plan. The local flight originated from OSH.

According to preliminary information from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the Breezy was landing behind an airplane on runway 36R. The accident airplane touched down and appeared to bounce during the landing roll. The airplane subsequently exited the right side of the runway and impacted parked armored Oshkosh vehicles and a ground fire occurred where the airplane came to rest. First responders extinguished the fire and transported the pilot and passenger to local hospitals. The pilot subsequently died from the injuries sustained during the accident.

The pilot held a FAA commercial pilot certificate with airplane single-engine land, multiengine land, single-engine sea, glider, and instrument airplane ratings. The pilot held a third-class medical certificate.

N3AZ was an experimental amateur-built Zimmerman Breezy high-wing, propeller-driven, fixed landing gear, tandem two-seat airplane with serial number JD1. A review of the airplane's logbooks revealed that the airplane had accumulated a total time of 1,230.6 hours at the last condition inspection, dated July 10, 2014, which was endorsed by the airplane builder who held a repairman certificate for the accident airplane. The airplane was powered by a Lycoming O-235-C1 with serial number 5795-15. The engine data plate indicated that it was rated at 108 horsepower at 2,600 rpm. The logbook endorsement revealed that the engine had accumulated 94.2 hours total time at the last condition inspection.

At 0853, the recorded weather at OSH was: Wind 300 degrees at 6 knots; visibility 10 statute miles; sky condition clear; temperature 20 degrees C; dew point 16 degrees C; altimeter 30.00 inches of mercury.

OSH, located approximately two miles south of downtown Oshkosh, Wisconsin, was a towered airport, owned by Winnebago County, with a surveyed field elevation of 808 feet above mean sea level. The airport's primary runways are runway 9/27 (6,178 feet by 150 feet, asphalt) and runway 18/36 (8,002 feet by 150 feet). However, during AirVenture, permission has been granted to allow the use of its parallel taxiway as a runway. Runway 18/36 becomes 18R/36L and taxiway A becomes 18L/36R under special flight procedures that were effective from 0600 on July 25 to Noon on August 4, 2014. The Experimental Aircraft Association website, www.airventure.org, provided pilots with information about air traffic control procedures and aircraft movement on the ground.

Runway 36R was walked and no debris or separated parts were observed on the runway. The grass infield area east of runway 36R and north of the A4 taxiway exhibited a path of disturbed grass from the edge of the runway through the infield in a northeast direction toward parked armored Oshkosh vehicles. An airport edge light consistent with a taxiway light was found separated from its base. The light's separated support stem was found on the ground in the disturbed grass path through the infield.

The airplane fuselage was found resting on its right side on the rear section of an armored Oshkosh vehicle parked in a grass area east of runway 36R and north of the A4 taxiway. This armored vehicle's rear passenger-side tire and chassis was charred and discolored. Other armored Oshkosh vehicles parked south of this vehicle exhibited witness marks that were oriented in the direction of the resting fuselage. Debris, consisting of pieces of fuselage frame tubing, a section of left main landing gear structure, and laminated wood shards, were located between the other armored vehicles and the airplane fuselage.

The airplane's right wing, engine, and right landing gear structure were found resting on the ground behind the charred rear passenger-side tire. The right wing was fabric was consumed by fire and its aileron control cables were traced to its bellcrank. The engine throttle linkage was intact and the mixture control was safety wired in the full rich position. The carburetor heat linkage was intact on the intake bracket. The wooden propeller hub remained attached to the engine propeller flange. However, its blades were not in place.

The left wing separated from the fuselage and was found about 25 feet north of the fuselage. Its aileron control cable ends were found outside the wing, separated in a broomstraw appearance consistent with overload. The aileron moved when the separated cables were pulled by hand. The empennage separated from the fuselage and the empennage was found about 55 feet north of the fuselage.

Flight control cables were traced and all observed breaks were consistent with overload. Examination of the engine controls cables revealed no pre-impact anomalies.

The wreckage was relocated and further examined. The engine was lifted by a hoist and a sparkplug was removed from each cylinder. The removed sparkplugs did not exhibit any anomalies. The propeller hub was turned by hand and all cylinders produced a thumb compression. The right magneto produced spark at its four distributor cap lead towers when its impulse coupling was rotated by hand. The left magneto exhibited internal heat damage when it was disassembled. It produced spark at its center electrode when its impulse coupling was rotated by hand. The carburetor fuel screen was removed and no debris was found in it. The gascolator housing exhibited a soot colored discoloration. Its bowl was not in place. All three wheels were rotated by hand and they exhibited no binding. The Hobbs meter indicated 1,251.3 hours.

 

[denverpilot]

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Word on the street is that the OSH airport manager had requested that Oshkosh Truck move those vehicles for safety during Airventure and they did not... Hello, lawsuit.

 

[flyingron]

Word on the street is that the OSH airport manager had requested that Oshkosh Truck move those vehicles for safety during Airventure and they did not... Hello, lawsuit.

And it is not without precedent. During the mass Mooney arrivals last year (or was it the year before), one landing on 36R lost control and went off the runway, plowed through the grass a bit and then knocked the engine off with one of the trucks. Fortunately on a Mooney there's an engine there. On the Breezy the forward most thing is the pilot.

 

[nddons]

And it is not without precedent. During the mass Mooney arrivals last year (or was it the year before), one landing on 36R lost control and went off the runway, plowed through the grass a bit and then knocked the engine off with one of the trucks. Fortunately on a Mooney there's an engine there. On the Breezy the forward most thing is the pilot.

It must have been two years ago because it didn't happen in 2013. I was stationed at far north end of 36R In 2013. But we were told to keep our heads on a swivel.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It must have been two years ago because it didn't happen in 2013. I was stationed at far north end of 36R In 2013. But we were told to keep our heads on a swivel.

They must've known Roush was coming in again.

 

[nddons]

They must've known Roush was coming in again.

Just this year we had someone turn from downwind to base to final for 27, but got lined up and almost landed on CLOSED runway 23!! I wonder if it was the warbirds parked on 23 that woke him up.

I presume he was turning more sharply than he does on his B-52 patterns at his home drone, was closer to the ground than normal, and saw pavement right in front of him on rollout, and presumed that it was all his.

 

[kyleb]

Just this year we had someone turn from downwind to base to final for 27, but got lined up and almost landed on CLOSED runway 23!! I wonder if it was the warbirds parked on 23 that woke him up.

I presume he was turning more sharply than he does on his B-52 patterns at his home drone, was closer to the ground than normal, and saw pavement right in front of him on rollout, and presumed that it was all his.

On Tuesday (?) many arrivals were making a right downwind followed by landing on 27. Except one Mooney which got down to about 100' on short final for runway 09. I'm sure he managed to excite everyone...

When he finally woke up, he just poured the power to it and rejoined the right downwind. No harm, no foul, I guess.

 

[nddons]

On Tuesday (?) many arrivals were making a right downwind followed by landing on 27. Except one Mooney which got down to about 100' on short final for runway 09. I'm sure he managed to excite everyone...

When he finally woke up, he just poured the power to it and rejoined the right downwind. No harm, no foul, I guess.

I heard about that one.

 

[steingar]

One year I came with a friend and his 10 year old son. Getting there was a two-day odyssey (normally takes about 4.5 hours) that left me quite fried. Just not used to being around little kids.

By the time I got into the pattern at Oshkosh I couldn't fathom that 180 degrees meant south.