Opinions are like...

Cajun_Flyer said:
Thank you all again so much. Your words are my strength. I haven't been flying for over a week, but it isn't because of my husband. I really want to fully shake all the negativity I have gotten from him before I go up again, as I don't want that junk in my head.

As for my marriage, although I'm pretty sure I've already reached my decision, I'm weighing everything very carefully right now. This isn't the first time he's behaved this way or failed to support me on something I really needed his support on. If it had been, then I wouldn't be standing at a crossroads.

But, regardless of that, I have no intentions to give up flying.

Circuit Flyer - I'm very sorry about your mom. It sounds like she was a wonderful, supportive woman!

Kevin - love the picture of your family. I hope to take similar ones some day of mine!!

You guys are fantastic. Thank you again.
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I pretty much got the same thing from everyone who knew nothing about it too. My son's first reaction was "Oh no, I don't want you to die". He has come around because he likes going places but the wife is still dead set against it. It makes it rough when I want to go somewhere, I wind up going by myself. Been down for medical for a while so it hasn't come up, but I will be flying again soon, with or without her.

My mother was supportive but she has previous experience with GA. Ditto with my father-in-law who was aircrew in the Navy Reserves, an aunt that used to manage an airport and learned to fly, cousin that owns a Mooney, another that is a test pilot for Cessna and family that flew CAP out of Manteo during WW-II. We have a lot of airplanes in our family tree.

There's probably something instructive in there that AOPA could address related to the public attitudes of GA flying.

Keep the faith and welcome to the great big crazy flying family.
 
Circuit Flyer said:
Wasn't going to chime in, because I am the least of the members of this board, with only about five hour of lessons into my PPL course in about 14 months of working on it. (Time, money, life, etc.). Then two things happened. First, my mom died last night. She would always ask me if I had been flying. She was proud of my infinitesimal progress. Then tonight I was bathing the boys tonight (they just turned 6 and 8). The elder starts chatting up a storm about his play date with his new crush. He says he was bragging about me (!), including that "you fly a plane." He says "You're an adventurer. That's why you like Indiana Jones -- you're just like him." My mom and my son took pride in my meager attempt at breaking the bonds of earth. That's reason enough to continue. My wife's outlook is that if flying makes me happy, that's good enough for her, despite her instinctive trepidation. She's even offered to pay for my lessons. Congratulations on your solo and your quest, and I wish you success in the sky and on the ground.
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My condolences to you as well, Circuit Flyer. Supportive mamas are an amazing gift, and it sounds like you appreciated her as well.
 
It's all relative to your ignorance level. My wife rides and x-country jumps horses, and I fly. The average person thinks flying a little airplane is way more dangerous than what she does. It's actually backwards. And you might guess what the average pilot thinks of the competition acro that I fly. Never mind what you might find (or not find) in the NTSB reports related to the sport.

And BTW, my wife and I have never complained one shred to each other about what we do. I guess we are lucky to have that kind of balance. It's funny how many pilots have wives who have horses. Two hobbies that suck a lot of time and money...nobody can complain. :)

Cajun Flyer, cheers to you for finding something that stokes you the way flying does. I might say that most people never find that. They're the ones milling around the mall on a weekend with perfect Wx.
 
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Cajun Flyer, your story resonates because I found my heart freezing up against my husband's flying. I do not enjoy flying. It tore me up to know that he would be going off and having adventures and spending lots of time away from me. Our kids are raised, and we had been planning some adventures and projects together when he veered off to take flying lessons.

After that, the things we were planning seemed to vanish. My first post here on POA was about my inability to even TALK with him about my feelings. The thread is called "A Wife's Questions," I believe.

As someone who understands the horrible feeling of being heart-frozen against a spouse you truly love, I urge you to give this whole thing TIME.

Ultimately, I began to realize that I wanted to be the kind of person who COULD be supportive, despite my instincts and feelings about the matter. It has not been easy, but ultimately I told my husband that I trusted him with our resources and with his role in our marriage.

Things were better after that, and we both relaxed, and he does fly (and bought a plane; it's peeking at you in my avatar :mad:) but we still spend lots of time together and are more in love than ever.

Also, DIVORCE IS VERY HARD ON CHILDREN. My kids are stepkids, and I'm glad I was there for them, but divorce puts a clamp on a kid's life and heart like you wouldn't believe. If a kid understands and works their way through all the feelings around his family breaking up, that's a lucky kid, but probably a rare one, too. It's awful.

Your husband probably thinks of your flying as competition for his and the kids' time. And he is right. Acknowledge that and talk if you can. If there is an ounce of large soul in him, he'll grow to understand.
 
Not surprised by some of the reactions to your flying. My coworker had a bet on if I would kill myself on the solo. Seems my life was worth $10. My mom asked my wife why she was letting me do something so dangerous, my wife reminded her that I ride a motorcycle that is far more dangerous and flying was not what she needed to be worried about. When I first started she was not supportive. It took me almost a year to convince her that I should take lessons. Now that I have finished my check ride, she entertains the thought of flying but I have not been able to get her to go yet or even to go look at the plane. My thought is time will fix it. If I can't get my wife to go, I know my kids will. GA interest is in too much of a decline not to pass that on to them and anyone else that will fly with me.
 
whifferdill said:
And BTW, my wife and I have never complained one shred to each other about what we do. I guess we are lucky to have that kind of balance. It's funny how many pilots have wives who have horses. Two hobbies that suck a lot of time and money...nobody can complain. :).
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Similar situation for me. My wife was supportive because my son was so excited about flying, but when I started my PPL 2 years ago she was not really plannning to go flying with me much. She is into horses with my daughter. They have 4 horses and 2 of them are crazy high strung nut jobs (the horses, not my wife). She often says that the horses are more dangerous than flying.

Now 2 years after I started my training we hardly ever drive anywhere by car anymore. She really is liking the SR22 and is even trying to book a trip to Staniel Cay in the Bahamas this spring. I end up being the one that tells her we can't fly that much...nice problem to have.

To the OP - hope you guys can work it out. It would be interesting to hear if his worry is safety, money or what?
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
But, regardless of that, I have no intentions to give up flying.
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So if you don't have friends or family that fly it might be worth looking into local clubs or something like EAA. Being around those that fly or have flown offers a lot of life lessons as well as maybe some free rides.
 
Becky said:
DIVORCE IS VERY HARD ON CHILDREN.
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As someone who grew up in a house with parents who resented each other and fought all the time, I have to argue the other side here. I prayed every night for them to divorce. Kids aren't dumb. Even when parents supposedly hide their disdain for each other, children know it exists. I won't let my kids grow up the way I did.

The fact is that LIFE is very hard on EVERYONE. My kids will be fine, no matter what decision is made. They'll be fine because they are my kids and I'm raising them to be smart and strong people. And they will always have two parents who love them very much.


Your husband probably thinks of your flying as competition for his and the kids' time. And he is right. Acknowledge that and talk if you can. If there is an ounce of large soul in him, he'll grow to understand.
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Nope, it's not that. It has nothing to do with time, as I either take personal time from work or go before work starts to do my flying during weekday hours. I'm home every day at the same time and home all weekend. As for him growing to understand, well... I started taking lessons last June and he's only getting more and more against it. So, I don't see that happening.

I'm glad you came around for your husband. Spouses are supposed to love and support each other.
 
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Kids are highly adaptable...and they have their own "problems" - especially once they hit a certain age. My parents split when I was young. Best thing for them. It didn't scar me. A little upsetting in the short term, but things happen in life. You move past it. Seeing who my parents are now, I cannot understand how they were ever together. They were much happier and better off in the end splitting. I don't wish for a second that they would have stayed together just for "us". That wouldn't have done us kids any good, IMO. As long as the kids still see both parents on a regular basis, and the parents don't subject the kids to too much of the drama between mom and dad, and you continue being good parents, the kids will be fine.
 
RoscoeT said:
Kids are highly adaptable...and they have their own "problems" - especially once they hit a certain age. My parents split when I was young. Best thing for them. It didn't scar me. A little upsetting in the short term, but things happen in life.
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I have a good friend who is in a situation... 2 y/o kid, things not going well with baby-mama. His lawyer advised him to try and make it work when she got pregnant, so they moved in together. Things still not going well but he is worried about the kid. I told him to get out now, don't be miserable for the next 16 years and the kid will adapt easier if this happens at a young age.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
As someone who grew up in a house with parents who resented each other and fought all the time, I have to argue the other side here. I prayed every night for them to divorce. Kids aren't dumb. Even when parents supposedly hide their disdain for each other, children know it exists. I won't let my kids grow up the way I did.

The fact is that LIFE is very hard on EVERYONE. My kids will be fine, no matter what decision is made. They'll be fine because they are my kids and I'm raising them to be smart and strong people. And they will always have two parents who love them very much.
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One of my best friends stayed in a horrible marriage for two decades because of his children. When he finally left the harridan one of his daughters asked him what took so long.

I truly hope you and your Mr. can work things out amicably, since that is better for everyone.
 
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Divorce over flying lessons? Seems pretty trivial to me, too much butthurt for what is basically a small thing. Divorce is a nasty thing. I've seen some friends going into it thinking they will control things and end up with real estate and kids only to be disappointed, not getting kids, not getting real estate, paying support and having a lifetime of misery.

Seems to me it would be easier to accept he doesn't support it, tell him you are doing it any way and he needs to learn to live with it. You are looking for his acceptance, you've already proven you don't need it, quit bringing it up, he'll get over it, but don't keep looking for him to accept it.
 
I don't think you read all her posts. This *aint* about flying. The guy is either a control freak or ****ed cuz she's doing something he can't do or he is 'involved' on the side and he's using the flying as a misdirection tool.
 
Paul,

I don't see it that way. This conflict is not about flying per se. Her husband wants to control her. That isn't going to work well for him.
 
JCranford said:
I don't think you read all her posts. This *aint* about flying. The guy is either a control freak or ****ed cuz she's doing something he can't do or he is 'involved' on the side and he's using the flying as a misdirection tool.
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Norman said:
Paul,

I don't see it that way. This conflict is not about flying per se. Her husband wants to control her. That isn't going to work well for him.
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Well, none of my business anyway, but it seems from what I read it's about the flying. Trying to control and controlling are very different things. She's flying, she's going to continue to fly, she won, but it seems like she wants him to be on board with it and he isn't. It doesn't matter. There are lots of happily married people who can't agree on something but live with it anyway, they learn to accept different opinions for different people and don't throw it in each others face or insist the displeased partner be happy and supportive about what they don't like.

Divorce will likely curtail or stop the flying as life becomes exponentially more difficult when kids are involved and money becomes more scarce as what once ran one household now must run two.

Were it I, I would say I'm continuing to fly, suck it up, you don't have to like it, but we need to get through it, moping around isn't going to change it. I would think in a few weeks things would get better, as long as it isn't continually brought up as a point of contention.

My two cents....
 
No, Paul, it actually has nothing to do with the flying. I'm not "butthurt" and I certainly didn't "win" anything either. He straight up gave me an ultimatum - I either stop following a passion, or we stop our marriage. It isn't about me wanting him to be on board, it's about me wanting respect from my partner. You don't have to like or agree with everything your spouse does, but if it's something they are passionate about, then you should at least have the decency to hear them out and try to work out a compromise. Ultimatums are never OK.

And, again, this isn't the first issue he has done this to me on. This is just the first one I'm putting my d@mn foot down on.

As for things getting better in a few weeks, it's been seven months of this. Flying into a rage every time he stumbles upon my log book (because I don't talk about my lessons with him anymore) isn't "learning to accept" differences in one's spouse. It's just crazy.

Again, this has nothing to do with flying. And I've already thought about how I will likely have to curtail flying to fund a divorce, if that's what I decide to do.
 
I just hope that if a dissolution is in your future, that you can find a way to carry it out amicably. The alternative is both horrid and expensive. Good luck.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
No, Paul, it actually has nothing to do with the flying. I'm not "butthurt" and I certainly didn't "win" anything either. He straight up gave me an ultimatum - I either stop following a passion, or we stop our marriage. It isn't about me wanting him to be on board, it's about me wanting respect from my partner. You don't have to like or agree with everything your spouse does, but if it's something they are passionate about, then you should at least have the decency to hear them out and try to work out a compromise. Ultimatums are never OK.

And, again, this isn't the first issue he has done this to me on. This is just the first one I'm putting my d@mn foot down on.

As for things getting better in a few weeks, it's been seven months of this. Flying into a rage every time he stumbles upon my log book (because I don't talk about my lessons with him anymore) isn't "learning to accept" differences in one's spouse. It's just crazy.

Again, this has nothing to do with flying. And I've already thought about how I will likely have to curtail flying to fund a divorce, if that's what I decide to do.
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If he truly feels that way your marriage is in deep trouble. The next voice he should be hearing is that of your attorney. Just my two cents worth.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
No, Paul, it actually has nothing to do with the flying. I'm not "butthurt" and I certainly didn't "win" anything either. He straight up gave me an ultimatum - I either stop following a passion, or we stop our marriage. It isn't about me wanting him to be on board, it's about me wanting respect from my partner. You don't have to like or agree with everything your spouse does, but if it's something they are passionate about, then you should at least have the decency to hear them out and try to work out a compromise. Ultimatums are never OK.

And, again, this isn't the first issue he has done this to me on. This is just the first one I'm putting my d@mn foot down on.

As for things getting better in a few weeks, it's been seven months of this. Flying into a rage every time he stumbles upon my log book (because I don't talk about my lessons with him anymore) isn't "learning to accept" differences in one's spouse. It's just crazy.

Again, this has nothing to do with flying. And I've already thought about how I will likely have to curtail flying to fund a divorce, if that's what I decide to do.
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Yeah, you need to do counseling with him, he's a dick for giving you an ultimatum like that. I'd be ****ed too, in fact I would have pulled the phone book right then and said let's find a lawyer. I'm thinking he would have backed down, or maybe not. Anyway, since you have been giving into him every time he thinks you will give in to him again, giving in continually to keep the peace was a mistake. He needs to understand you are not going to give in now. I wouldn't hide that you are flying from him, tell him you are going to do it and you don't want any crap.

Counseling is cheaper than divorce, there must be something there, you married him, see if you can find that again, a pro can help with that, plus help him understand you are going to fly with or without him.

Sorry for your troubles and as Steingar says, should you decide to end it try to do it amicably. I know several people who have done it contentiously and it is always bad for both, while those who have done it like grown ups seem much better off, mentally and financially.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
No, Paul, it actually has nothing to do with the flying. I'm not "butthurt" and I certainly didn't "win" anything either. He straight up gave me an ultimatum - I either stop following a passion, or we stop our marriage. It isn't about me wanting him to be on board, it's about me wanting respect from my partner. You don't have to like or agree with everything your spouse does, but if it's something they are passionate about, then you should at least have the decency to hear them out and try to work out a compromise. Ultimatums are never OK.

And, again, this isn't the first issue he has done this to me on. This is just the first one I'm putting my d@mn foot down on.

As for things getting better in a few weeks, it's been seven months of this. Flying into a rage every time he stumbles upon my log book (because I don't talk about my lessons with him anymore) isn't "learning to accept" differences in one's spouse. It's just crazy.

Again, this has nothing to do with flying. And I've already thought about how I will likely have to curtail flying to fund a divorce, if that's what I decide to do.
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I'm sorry to hear this. Either way, you lose at least some flying. As others have mentioned, it goes beyond the flying.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
I soloed two days before Christmas and it was amazing!! Ok, so my landings were definitely not my best and I did have to do a go-around when I came in too high once, BUT I had a blast :) Traffic was pretty thick that day... had to do a couple 360s and extend my downwind once or twice, but nothing I'm not used to. It's one of the busiest airports for traffic in New England.

Because it wasn't my most graceful flight, I decided to go up and solo again the day after Christmas just to prove I could do it better than I did the first time. I nailed every landing beautifully! :) My CFI would have been proud.
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Congrats! One thing you're aware of is you don't want to end up 10-20 years from now regretting you didn't follow your heart and passion and not do this. Do this and enjoy it, we're only passing thru here anyway. Hopefully once you get your certificate and you take your spouse up (if he'll go lol) maybe he'll come around, maybe not. Sounds like he's very jealous of you doing something he would have a fear of doing. Those other people, screw 'em! :yesnod:
 
PaulS said:
Yeah, you need to do counseling with him, he's a dick for giving you an ultimatum like that. I'd be ****ed too, in fact I would have pulled the phone book right then and said let's find a lawyer. I'm thinking he would have backed down
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Eventually you will have to call his bluff. Maybe he compromises, although some people put winning above all other consideration. If he's the latter, take the lumps now and move on.
 
Your signature says you are in New England. There are lots of great, supportive groups of pilots around. Hanging out at the airport, flying together to get lunch, building airplanes, you name it. Get hooked up with one of those groups. Will make it even better. Some people just don't get it.

Also, join social flight. Lots of fly ins, pancake breakfasts, going on during the warm months. Another thing to make it more fun when you want to fly but might not have a particular destination for that day.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
No, Paul, it actually has nothing to do with the flying. I'm not "butthurt" and I certainly didn't "win" anything either. He straight up gave me an ultimatum - I either stop following a passion, or we stop our marriage. It isn't about me wanting him to be on board, it's about me wanting respect from my partner. You don't have to like or agree with everything your spouse does, but if it's something they are passionate about, then you should at least have the decency to hear them out and try to work out a compromise. Ultimatums are never OK.

And, again, this isn't the first issue he has done this to me on. This is just the first one I'm putting my d@mn foot down on.

As for things getting better in a few weeks, it's been seven months of this. Flying into a rage every time he stumbles upon my log book (because I don't talk about my lessons with him anymore) isn't "learning to accept" differences in one's spouse. It's just crazy.

Again, this has nothing to do with flying. And I've already thought about how I will likely have to curtail flying to fund a divorce, if that's what I decide to do.
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I agree. Your battles about flying are just a symptom of the problem. That's my 2 cents, which is probably worth a fraction of that price, since I am the last person who should be giving marital advice...
 
PilotRPI said:
Your signature says you are in New England. There are lots of great, supportive groups of pilots around. Hanging out at the airport, flying together to get lunch, building airplanes, you name it. Get hooked up with one of those groups. Will make it even better. Some people just don't get it.

Also, join social flight. Lots of fly ins, pancake breakfasts, going on during the warm months. Another thing to make it more fun when you want to fly but might not have a particular destination for that day.
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Thanks for the tips! I would definitely like to get more involved with the social side of flying. For the most part, I have really liked and connected quickly with other pilots I've met.

Onto some good news for a change - the comments from coworkers have died down and been replaced mostly with support and encouragement. A couple of the guys here even call me "Capt'n" now! :) Even one of the guys who made one of the idiotic comments I mentioned in my initial post now makes a point to come up and ask me about my flying every time I see him. He's a communications guy for the state, so he grills me on all the airport frequencies, which has been helpful in committing them to memory.

So, I don't know if someone sensed I was getting ticked off that one day (when I came here to post this) or what, but the attitude has vastly changed.
 
Becky said:
My condolences to you as well, Circuit Flyer. Supportive mamas are an amazing gift, and it sounds like you appreciated her as well.
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Thanks very much, Becky. Yes, she was a great mom, and I wish my kids had more time with her. :)
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
Onto some good news for a change - the comments from coworkers have died down and been replaced mostly with support and encouragement. A couple of the guys here even call me "Capt'n" now! :)
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I'm pretty sure everyone here has dealt with some form of criticism from the people who believe light airplanes are scary death traps. Its not totally their fault, the media sensationalizes any form of aircraft accidents making it seem way more dangerous than it actually is. Like we should be kissing the ground after every flight, when in reality going for a flight is no more risky than firing up a Harley for a nice Sunday afternoon ride on some back roads.

Those people tend to come around after you have been flying for awhile and remain alive.

In fact some of the scared people are often the most interested to hear about your training.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
Thanks for the tips! I would definitely like to get more involved with the social side of flying. For the most part, I have really liked and connected quickly with other pilots I've met.

Onto some good news for a change - the comments from coworkers have died down and been replaced mostly with support and encouragement. A couple of the guys here even call me "Capt'n" now! :) Even one of the guys who made one of the idiotic comments I mentioned in my initial post now makes a point to come up and ask me about my flying every time I see him. He's a communications guy for the state, so he grills me on all the airport frequencies, which has been helpful in committing them to memory.

So, I don't know if someone sensed I was getting ticked off that one day (when I came here to post this) or what, but the attitude has vastly changed.
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Did you just happen to leave this thread up on your computer when you went to lunch or something? Maybe they read it? :rofl:

Glad they've let up on you though. Keep flying! :yesnod:
 
mscard88 said:
Did you just happen to leave this thread up on your computer when you went to lunch or something? Maybe they read it? :rofl:
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ha... no, but I did happen to vent to the office gossip queen that day about my annoyance at people's comments ;)
 
PaulS said:
Divorce over flying lessons? Seems pretty trivial to me, too much butthurt for what is basically a small thing. Divorce is a nasty thing.
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You know what else is nasty? Being with somebody who sucks the dreams right out of your soul.

She has to make a decision that's right for her and her relationship. Why second guess her? She probably knows her situation better than you.
 
bullwinkle said:
You know what else is nasty? Being with somebody who sucks the dreams right out of your soul.

She has to make a decision that's right for her and her relationship. Why second guess her? She probably knows her situation better than you.
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Because it's the internet.
 
dell30rb said:
I'm pretty sure everyone here has dealt with some form of criticism from the people who believe light airplanes are scary death traps.
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Not anyone who really mattered to me. And that's a very short list. Maybe one. That's the bummer here for her. It's pretty easy to ignore everyone else other than a spouse.
 
denverpilot said:
Not anyone who really mattered to me. And that's a very short list. Maybe one. That's the bummer here for her. It's pretty easy to ignore everyone else other than a spouse.
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Sadly, it seems all too common, and easy, for a lot of people to ignore their spouse, too.

I wonder sometimes. If a man charmed a married woman into having sex with him, and her husband learned of it, and the woman said "I couldn't help it; I've always wanted to have sex with a man like him, it's been my lifetime dream," is the husband supposed to say, "Well then, okey dokey! No harm done! Have at him all you want!"?

Some may say that's not an apt comparison to flying, but considering how the flying "bug" bites people, and we all joke about the Aviation-Induced Divorce Syndrome, I think it's on target.
 
Becky said:
I wonder sometimes. If a man charmed a married woman into having sex with him, and her husband learned of it, and the woman said "I couldn't help it; I've always wanted to have sex with a man like him, it's been my lifetime dream," is the husband supposed to say, "Well then, okey dokey! No harm done! Have at him all you want!"?
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There are two lethal problems with your metaphor. First, the act of getting married specifically contravenes the activity you describe. Second, in initiating intimate behavior with a non spouse, the person is jeopardizing the very thing that got them married in the first place.

I must also point out that in previous eras is was quite accepted for men of substance to have mistresses and illegitimate children. I recall Mitterrand's mistress attending his funeral. We Americans tend to be considerably more puritanical about this sort of thing.
 
Becky said:
If a man charmed a married woman into having sex with him, and her husband learned of it, and the woman said "I couldn't help it; I've always wanted to have sex with a man like him, it's been my lifetime dream," is the husband supposed to say, "Well then, okey dokey! No harm done! Have at him all you want!"?

Some may say that's not an apt comparison to flying...
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Because it's not... not even remotely. Being passionate about something like flying (or cooking, or antiquing, or gardening... whatever) harms no one and breaks no marital vows. No one is saying that a person should get a green light or spousal support for every thing they want.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
No, Paul, it actually has nothing to do with the flying. I'm not "butthurt" and I certainly didn't "win" anything either. He straight up gave me an ultimatum - I either stop following a passion, or we stop our marriage. It isn't about me wanting him to be on board, it's about me wanting respect from my partner. You don't have to like or agree with everything your spouse does, but if it's something they are passionate about, then you should at least have the decency to hear them out and try to work out a compromise. Ultimatums are never OK.

And, again, this isn't the first issue he has done this to me on. This is just the first one I'm putting my d@mn foot down on.

As for things getting better in a few weeks, it's been seven months of this. Flying into a rage every time he stumbles upon my log book (because I don't talk about my lessons with him anymore) isn't "learning to accept" differences in one's spouse. It's just crazy.

Again, this has nothing to do with flying. And I've already thought about how I will likely have to curtail flying to fund a divorce, if that's what I decide to do.
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don't spend your life walking on eggshells. that is BS.

i can't advise you to do or not do a divorce, but make sure the end game isn't just you doing what he wants.
 
I tell you this my Cajun friend... Crawfish are delicious but antiquing doesn't sound exciting at all....
 
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