Okay rookie maintenance question follows...

Timbeck2

Timbeck2

Final Approach
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Timbeck2
In the Piper service manual paragraph 2-13 jacking instructions...

"2-13. JACKING. Jacking the airplane is necessary to service the landing gear and to
perform other service operations. Proceed as follows:
a. Place jacks under jack pads on the front wing spar. (Refer to Figure 2-32.)
b. Attach the tail support to the tail skid. Place approximately 250 pounds of ballast
on the base of the tail support to hold down the tail.
CAUTION Be sure to apply sufficient tail support ballast; otherwise the
airplane will tip forward."

Figure 2-32 shows a stand under the tail and one jack under each wing...no help to my question which follows.

I want to take the nose wheel off to paint, re-pack bearings, install wheel pants, etc. I have access to the tub-o-concrete that my A&P uses when he does such a thing. My question is, how do you get the nose off the ground? All it is is a washtub of concrete with a length of chain embedded into it.

I know, I know....ask your mechanic but I can't right now.
 
are you saying you only have access to the tail support but not the wing jacks?
because if you do it as they say, the nosewheel will rise up.
 
Tie the tail skid to something heavy and push it down or winch it down/tie it off.
 
I have wing jacks and access to the tub of concrete, no tail brace. Reading the instructions (and I quoted them in their entirety) I don't see what I'd have to do in order to lift the nose off the ground. To put a brace under the tail and jack up the wings seems counter-intuitive to raising the nose wheel off the ground. Hanging a tub of concrete from the rear tie down makes more sense but how?...do you have three hairy apes and a small child dangle from the tail until the nose raises, then attach the tub?
 
Walt I understand...but wouldn't the mains be a better, more stable fulcrum? Don't answer that, I'll do what you suggest. Seems like the only way a guy can do it alone.
 
If you're doing the nose wheel maintenance first/only, put your ballast under the tie down ring, then have someone (or two) push down on the front of stabilator and hook that weight on nice and close. It won't go anywhere until you get the nose wheel back in place and repeat the pushing to unhook.

Now, if you want to have all the wheels off you're looking at some fancy hoisting and rigging.
 
I've seen folks put sand bags on the horizontal stab to get the nose wheel up, doesn't take much.
 
rolivi said:
If you're doing the nose wheel maintenance first/only, put your ballast under the tie down ring, then have someone (or two) push down on the front of stabilator and hook that weight on nice and close. It won't go anywhere until you get the nose wheel back in place and repeat the pushing to unhook.

Now, if you want to have all the wheels off you're looking at some fancy hoisting and rigging.
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Not a great idea to push down there or on the horizontal stab. You might do some damage by doing so. Secure the tiedown/tail skid ring to a weight and use jacks.
 
How much down force is on the stab during flight?


I think if you spread it out well, for a small plane it wouldnt cause any harm
 
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Every Cessna nose gear guy I've ever known pushes down on the horizontal to lift the tail to pivot the plane. Close in to the fuselage, for sure, but I've never heard of any problems. Are low wings more fragile there?
 
The track on my hangar has a hole in it. Last week I put a clevis pin in the hole and used a tie down rope to hold the tail down while I removed the front wheel to repack the bearings. I pushed down on the fuselage to get the nose wheel off the ground and then tied it off. I have a stabilator so I can't push on the tail.
 
Stewartb said:
Every Cessna nose gear guy I've ever known pushes down on the horizontal to lift the tail to pivot the plane. Close in to the fuselage, for sure, but I've never heard of any problems. Are low wings more fragile there?
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Not low wings per-se but the stabilator is on bearings and I've seen them damaged from doing so. I've also seen cracked spars in horizontal stabs.
 
I go about it from the other end. Chock the mains and set the parking brake. Set something like a concrete block out in front of the nose wheel to use as a fulcrum. Use a 2X4 as a lever under one side of the front fork to raise the nose wheel. Put a block under the other side of the fork to hold it up while working. You can do this by your self if you tilt the block so that it falls into place when you lift the wheel. Or if you only chock one main initially without the brake set, you can move the nose wheel sideways while lifting with the 2X4 to set the other side of the fork onto the block. Especially useful if you have a flat nose wheel at a random location with no tail tiedown or tail weight. I had the valve stem break off of the tube so I couldn't just air a slightly leaking tube up to move the plane to a tail tiedown.
 
Norman said:
Not low wings per-se but the stabilator is on bearings and I've seen them damaged from doing so. I've also seen cracked spars in horizontal stabs.
Click to expand...
Walboy said:
I don't think it's a good idea to put weights on a stabilator either. N

It's a stabilator, not a horizontal stabilizer. I wouldn't put weights on it either.
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The tail plane is designed to withstand a lot of weight/downforce on it. Whether in flight or on the ground, the tail plane must withstand enough downforce to hold the nose up.
If you place the weights properly on the spar, that is no different from the loads that the tail experiences in flight.
Again, if done properly, it won't hurt the tail.
 
Using jack points as a fulcrum has proven to be a very bad idea, look for warnings/cautions in the MM. I've seen pictures of aircraft that have fallen off Jacks and been substantially damaged.
 
1. Chock the mains so that they can't move.
2. Get either a few sandbags, two tool chests, or two five gallon pails nearly full of water -- even better is a hose and use empty buckets until you get to step 6.
3. Put towels on the horizontal stabilator so that you don't scratch the paint.
4. Locate the stabilator spar (a row of rivets running horizontally across the top of the stab is a good indicator).
5. Have a friend ready to push down on the stabilator.
6. Simultaneously have the friend push down on the stab spar on one side of the aircraft while you put one of the weights on the spar on the other side as near the fuselage as possible.
7. Put the second weight on the friend's side as per (6) above.
8. Now the TWO of you gently put your body weight through your arms on the stab spars, one on each side. At some point the nose will seem to jump off of the ground.
9. If the two of you full weight don't get the nose off the ground, then repeat steps 6-8 with more weights.
10. When the nose comes off the ground, hook that cement bucket to the tail tiedown just as tight as you can get it.
11. SLOWLY remove weights from the stabilator. The nose should stay off the ground.
12. Do your work with the cement bucket attached. When you are through, put the weights back on, push down with body weight to get the tension off the cement bucket chain, remove chain from tiedown, then SLOWLY remove weights until the nose gently settles to the ground.
13. Done.
 
Walboy said:
I don't think it's a good idea to put weights on a stabilator either. N


It's a stabilator, not a horizontal stabilizer. I wouldn't put weights on it either.
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Neither would I. I have, however, used a ratchet strap on the tailhook, (tiedown at the tail) and hooked it to the tiedown loop on the ramp.
just ratchet it 'till th' nose is off the ground.
What most folks don't know is that there are only two (2) AN4 bolts holding the stabilator on the airplane. Albeit they are attached to a couple of pretty beefy fittings, which in turn are attached to a piece of sheet aluminum about .025"-.030" thick, and only spaced about 8" apart, located at the end of a 5' lever, (stabilator is about 10' long) But they work real well. :D
 
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Timbeck2 said:
I have wing jacks and access to the tub of concrete, no tail brace. Reading the instructions (and I quoted them in their entirety) I don't see what I'd have to do in order to lift the nose off the ground. To put a brace under the tail and jack up the wings seems counter-intuitive to raising the nose wheel off the ground. Hanging a tub of concrete from the rear tie down makes more sense but how?...do you have three hairy apes and a small child dangle from the tail until the nose raises, then attach the tub?
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The tail brace is for stability and limits travel so you don't tip the aircraft off the wing jackpoints.
 
But the plane is nose heavy according to the hundreds of weight and balance calculations I've done.

I like the ratcheting tie down idea as it seems easier for one person to do.
 
This thread is blue print for disaster.
 
GlennAB1 said:
I've seen many maintenance manual deviations go bad. Be careful
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What I put in quotes above is "the" maintenance manual instructions....no more. To actually jack up the wing jacks would be a deviation.
 
2150 pound airplane in it's present state closer to 1800, brand new 5000 pound ratcheting strap, I'm pretty confident.
 
Do you have access to jackstands? If so the instructions in the manual are correct when followed. If you have never had the opportunity to jack an airplane, now would be a really good time to receive some A&P supervision for the proper technique. The potential for damage to your aircraft is great if done incorrectly. I agree with GlennAB1 & Tom-D. Be careful. 'I'm pretty confident' is the precursor of 'Oh s#*t!'
 
Im pretty confident that beer, and jacking an airplane, can end badly, and that 5000 lb strap can easily damage that aircraft.
 
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Don't forget, you're going to need some ball bearings. Everything is ball bearings these days. :)
 
GlennAB1 said:
Im pretty confident that beer, and jacking an airplane, can end badly, and that 5000 lb strap can easily damage that aircraft.
Click to expand...


Hey Glenn...lighten up. I have no intention of bending my plane. I would however, like to point out that in one breath you say follow the instructions in the service manual which states "use jacks" then in another you say that using jacks as a fulcrum is a bad idea. ;)

This will get accomplished and safely at that...everyone.
 
I wrote: "Using jack points as a fulcrum has proven to be a very bad idea, look for warnings/cautions in the MM. I've seen pictures of aircraft that have fallen off Jacks and been substantially damaged." That's a fact, based on experience. If you follow the maintenance manual you should be ok, but as you pointed out, you don't fully understand the instructions, that's why you asked the question. Be careful and good luck.
 
GlennAB1 said:
I've seen pictures of aircraft that have fallen off Jacks and been substantially damaged." That's a fact, based on experience. If you follow the maintenance manual you should be ok, but as you pointed out, you don't fully understand the instructions, that's why you asked the question.
Click to expand...

My point exactly... In my experience, what added insult to injury was, I showed up to help him about 15 minutes too late. 15 minutes would have made the difference between guidance and the resulting hole that was punched in the bottom of the wing.
 
Timbeck2 said:
What I put in quotes above is "the" maintenance manual instructions....no more. To actually jack up the wing jacks would be a deviation.
Click to expand...
You're telling me the aircraft jacking instructions never says to jack the aircraft? You need to stop and getting your A&P to assist.
 
A single person can push down on the tail and get the nose off the ground in most (all) 4 seat airplanes. When pushing, go on the empenage (hull) and push down over a row of rivets near the rudder. Someone else can hook a short chain with S-hooks keep the tail down. If you don't like S hooks, use your favorite positive closure hook.
 
Welp...after a half case of beer I started jacking the plane, I had help with some fuel truck guy who just happened to be driving by and another pilot and his dog. I think it was either a mastiff or a chihuahua...don't remember I was so hammered. Anyway, after punching a hole into each wing, I trashed that idea and decided just to winch the whole plane by throwing light three cotton ropes over the rafters of the hangar tied to wings and the tail and connected to three come along winches. That way I got all three wheels up in the air at the same time and BONUS... I could stand up while I worked. I didn't have enough grease to pack the bearings so I just used some snot from the dog..I think it was sick or allergic to something.

After a long conversation with the fuel truck guy...did you guys know that the word "gullible" isn't in the dictionary?
 
If you have access to an engine hoist you could remove the cowl and use the hoist to lift the nose and secure it with your tub of concrete strapped to the tail tie down for safety.
 
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