No Joy

MyassisDragon

MyassisDragon

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
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Michigan
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Display name:
Mr Fred
Just curious how many pilots use this when ATC calls traffic and you dont see it?

I was on a flight home yesterday and heard it twice from commercial guys when atc called traffic for them. I have always stated "negative contact" or "Looking" but I kind of like the no joy reply and will probably switch since it's quicker and rolls off the tong better. :dunno: and a little more singular. :goofy:
 
It's what I was taught. "Negative contact" is a mouthful, "no joy" is quick and easy.
 
Nothing screams "poser" quite like trying to sound cool on the radio.

"Negative contact" works just fine, and it's a whole lot more obvious WTF you're talking about.

Besides, who cares if you've run out of dish soap? :)
 
No joy..... I don't see it.

Talley ho.... I see it.!!

Old military jargon.
 
I haven't used it. I see these calls as paired in this situation.

Professinal:
"Negative Contact" / "Traffic in sight"

Casual:
"Lookin for traffic" / "I see the Cessna"

That Guy:
"No Joy" / "got em on the fish finder"
 
It's what I was taught and used for 15 years in the military when I was young, and it has stuck with me ever since. The controllers understand it, and it's easier and faster to say than "negative contact" or "traffic not in sight" (the latter too easily losing the "not" in transmission/reception), so I'm not going spend any effort to break the habit. Same for "tally" (nobody in the military says "tally-ho") -- easier, faster, always understood, and cannot be confused with the opposite call, and what I was taught/became habit when habits were easier to form/break.
 
When I worked at AA (line mech) and a pilot said "in the military blah, blah" long haired me would reply "does it look like you're in the military, Jack?"
If you are not in the military currently, get over it.
 
"Looking for traffic" is my first response unless I already see it.

"Negative Contact" is my preferred, then "Traffic in sight" when I have it.

I save "No Joy" for when the called traffic is a warbird...
 
Although I don't use no joy anymore, I do prefer how the military uses it vs FAA terminology. Negative contact means either you can't see the traffic or unable to establish comms. Military distinguishes negative contact (comms) and no joy (traffic / obstacle). Easier in my opinion.

On occasion I've heard military pilots use no joy for comms as well but that's a different story.
 
docmirror said:
The "G" word might get you some uninvited company these days. No one has a sense of humor any more. :sad:
Click to expand...

Yeah, I sure wouldn't use that word on the radio here in SoCal. I suspect I'd have a second shadow pretty damn fast.
 
MyassisDragon said:
Just curious how many pilots use this when ATC calls traffic and you dont see it?

I was on a flight home yesterday and heard it twice from commercial guys when atc called traffic for them. I have always stated "negative contact" or "Looking" but I kind of like the no joy reply and will probably switch since it's quicker and rolls off the tong better. :dunno: and a little more singular. :goofy:
Click to expand...

I use "looking" and "no joy" in two different situations. First I say "looking". If I don't see anything, I then say "no joy".

I guess I'm wrong on the "no joy" thing, but it's what I was always taught. I agree "negative contact" doesn't roll off the tongue. I might try negative contact if I can remember to do so. No joy has become a sort of habit.
 
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I'm tempted to use "looking for traffic" even if it's casual/unofficial. ATC tends to want a quick reply after a traffic call, and an immediate "negative contact" when I haven't had much time to search doesn't seem right. What do those of you who avoid "looking for traffic" do?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I haven't used it. I see these calls as paired in this situation.

Professinal:
"Negative Contact" / "Traffic in sight"

Casual:
"Lookin for traffic" / "I see the Cessna"

That Guy:
"No Joy" / "got em on the fish finder"
Click to expand...


got any more of these? I wanna learn to be "that guy" :lol:
 
I guess put me in the professional category. I've never been inclined to say anything else. Occasionally if I'm in IMC I might add that but it doesn't really add anything useful.
 
F01LA said:
I'm tempted to use "looking for traffic" even if it's casual/unofficial. ATC tends to want a quick reply after a traffic call, and an immediate "negative contact" when I haven't had much time to search doesn't seem right. What do those of you who avoid "looking for traffic" do?
Click to expand...

Negative Contact
Traffic in Sight

ATC only wants to know if you have, at this point in time, the traffic in sight. Whether you are actively looking or playing CandyCrush makes no difference to them from how they handle it: either you can maintain distance from the traffic or you can't.
 
Mary and I have used "No joy" for 20+ years. It's what we were both taught to say to ATC when called traffic was not in sight, by two different CFIs in two different parts of the country.

It's short, sweet, and to the point. What's not to like?
 
"Looking" means I am trying to spot the traffic.

"Negative contact " means I don't see it, and may not be "looking".

Two different terms for me.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I haven't used it. I see these calls as paired in this situation.

Professinal:
"Negative Contact" / "Traffic in sight"

Casual:
"Lookin for traffic" / "I see the Cessna"

That Guy:
"No Joy" / "got em on the fish finder"
Click to expand...

I fall into the casual category
 
Jay Honeck said:
Mary and I have used "No joy" for 20+ years. It's what we were both taught to say to ATC when called traffic was not in sight, by two different CFIs in two different parts of the country.

It's short, sweet, and to the point. What's not to like?
Click to expand...

Jay, aside from the fact that the Pilot/Controller Glossary exists for a reason, why in the world do you accept what an anonymous CFI says as gospel? In these forums we see example after example of instructors who know no more than what they were taught and have never bothered to learn more.

When an instructor tells me something, my rejoinder is "Show me that in an FAA publication."

Bob Gardner
 
Gucci Pilot said:
I fall into the casual category
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I do to.
I want to say "negative contact" but I never remember and it is not natural.

Usually I am too busy looking for what they are telling my to look for that I am not over thinking my verbiage.
 
This is all incorrect terminology. When you don't spot the traffic you should say:

"No joy - in fact I'm really depressed that I can't see the traffic. Now we'll probably collide with them and die. Crap crap crap."

When the traffic is finally spotted you should say:

"Whoop YES I see them! Golly gee I'm happy as a pig in the mud! Up yours, random chance death! Up yours, cold cruel universe! Ha ha ha! Things are looking up!"
 
Jim Logajan said:
This is all incorrect terminology. When you don't spot the traffic you should say:

"No joy - in fact I'm really depressed that I can't see the traffic. Now we'll probably collide with them and die. Crap crap crap."

When the traffic is finally spotted you should say:

"Whoop YES I see them! Golly gee I'm happy as a pig in the mud! Up yours, random chance death! Up yours, cold cruel universe! Ha ha ha! Things are looking up!"
Click to expand...

Sometimes I just go with
"Can you just keep him away from me? I have really ****ty vision and honestly between you, me, and the wall I shouldn't even be up here. Thanks buddy."
 
bobmrg said:
Jay, aside from the fact that the Pilot/Controller Glossary exists for a reason, why in the world do you accept what an anonymous CFI says as gospel? In these forums we see example after example of instructors who know no more than what they were taught and have never bothered to learn more.

When an instructor tells me something, my rejoinder is "Show me that in an FAA publication."

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

I've learned to change my ways when I discovered what I was taught was something that existed only in the mind of my instructor, or his instructor.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Sometimes I just go with
"Can you just keep him away from me? I have really ****ty vision and honestly between you, me, and the wall I shouldn't even be up here. Thanks buddy."
Click to expand...

ATC: "Six papa charlie, target isn't talking to us. Unknown altitude, but the spot looks to be merging with you. Bummer, man. Suggest you raise shields to maximum, the spots are too close now to suggest a vector. Ready to copy your last words."
 
Ron Levy said:
It's what I was taught and used for 15 years in the military when I was young, and it has stuck with me ever since. The controllers understand it, and it's easier and faster to say than "negative contact" or "traffic not in sight" (the latter too easily losing the "not" in transmission/reception), so I'm not going spend any effort to break the habit. Same for "tally" (nobody in the military says "tally-ho") -- easier, faster, always understood, and cannot be confused with the opposite call, and what I was taught/became habit when habits were easier to form/break.
Click to expand...
I was taught the same (not in the military, but by my CFI out of 76G) and used both for many years while I was based at PHN and mostly talking to the Selfridge controllers, who were obviously quite used to it. But a few years ago I said "9RX tally" to a Flint Approach controller, and in the ensuing round of "say again" and me repeating the same phrase I realized she had absolutely no idea what it meant. That cured me, and now it's "traffic in sight" and "negative contact" every time -- even when talking to Selfridge.
 
JoseCuervo said:
"Looking" means I am trying to spot the traffic.

"Negative contact " means I don't see it, and may not be "looking".

Two different terms for me.
Click to expand...

The former is nonstandard and conveys no information to the controller. He assumes you are looking as soon as he tells you there is traffic. He only needs to know if you've spotted it.
 
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