The former is nonstandard and conveys no information to the controller. He assumes you are looking as soon as he tells you there is traffic. He only needs to know if you've spotted it.
You've got to acknowledge the transmission, right? So I say, "18NS, looking". I guess you could say, "18NS, roger".
The former is nonstandard and conveys no information to the controller. He assumes you are looking as soon as he tells you there is traffic. He only needs to know if you've spotted it.
WHich is why Negative contact works. It means I acknowledge your traffic point out but I don't see it.
I disagree...it conveys you've received his alert and you're looking specifically in the area he advised,
In the interest of full disclosure:
Tally = I see the bad / unknown guy. ie "Iceman 2, Tally 2, right 3 low, engaged"
No Joy = I don't see the bad / unknown guy. ie "Iceman 2, No joy, north middle group, blow thru east"
Visual = I see the friendly. Ie "Iceman 2, Visual 2 F-16s right 4 o clock low"
Blind = I don't see the friendlies. ie "Iceman 2 blind on Maverick flgiht."
No contact / Negative contact implies comm / radar
Depends. If they say "cleared to land runway XX, behind a cirrus" I usually just say cleared to land runway xx, cessna 12345. If they don't issue a landing clearance, I'll say "looking for traffic"Slightly off topic, but related: if tower says "your number two for landing behind a cirrus". Am I supposed to acknowledge by "looking for traffic". Or "cirrus in sight"?
Slightly off topic, but related: if tower says "your number two for landing behind a cirrus". Am I supposed to acknowledge by "looking for traffic". Or "cirrus in sight"?
I disagree...it conveys you've received his alert and you're looking specifically in the area he advised,
The controller assumes you're looking. It conveys nothing to him. Unless you tell him you have visual contact with the traffic and you can maintain your own separation, NOTHING else you tell him means squat. I'm looking, but can't see him is the same as I don't give a crap what you see on your scope, I'm not looking out the window.
It conveys I've heard his call out and I'm alerted to the potential traffic. It's certainly more meaningful than "No Joy" in just simple English terms.
It's worked fine for at least 30-some years for me.
But you've missed the point that he doesn't care. Either you see him and are maintaining your own separation or you don't. If he's in a situation where separation is mandated, he then decides what he does next. That decision is not based on whether you are looking or gave up trying to spot the aircraft.
The fact that you've jabbered on the frequency without conveying any useful information for 30 years doesn't make it effective.
Sure it does. It mean you heard him.The controller assumes you're looking. It conveys nothing to him.
I think if the controller's name is "Joy" then they may think you are being defiant.
"Let me know when you have traffic in sight"
"No, Joy"
"well screw you too then"
But, feel free to do whatever works for you.
Exactly. People get too worked up over what others say on the radio.
Sure it does. It mean you heard him.
Sure, however you said it "conveys nothing" to him but it does. Again, it doesn't really matter. ATC knows what "looking" means, and also "no joy".NEGATIVE CONTACT tells him exactly the same thing in a clear, documented, standard way.
I think if the controller's name is "Joy" then they may think you are being defiant.
"Let me know when you have traffic in sight"
"No, Joy"
"well screw you too then"
NEGATIVE CONTACT tells him exactly the same thing in a clear, documented, standard way.
Fine, I'm going to acknowledge all controller instructions with "R" (handy for talk like a pirate day). Not even a single syllabal. PC/G and the AIM be damned, I'm just gong to talk on the radio like I bloody weell see fit and who cares if it is properly understood by the other party.
The controller assumes you're looking. It conveys nothing to him. Unless you tell him you have visual contact with the traffic and you can maintain your own separation, NOTHING else you tell him means squat. I'm looking, but can't see him is the same as I don't give a crap what you see on your scope, I'm not looking out the window.
But you've missed the point that he doesn't care. Either you see him and are maintaining your own separation or you don't. If he's in a situation where separation is mandated, he then decides what he does next. That decision is not based on whether you are looking or gave up trying to spot the aircraft.
The fact that you've jabbered on the frequency without conveying any useful information for 30 years doesn't make it effective.
In the interest of full disclosure:
Tally = I see the bad / unknown guy. ie "Iceman 2, Tally 2, right 3 low, engaged"
No Joy = I don't see the bad / unknown guy. ie "Iceman 2, No joy, north middle group, blow thru east"
Visual = I see the friendly. Ie "Iceman 2, Visual 2 F-16s right 4 o clock low"
Blind = I don't see the friendlies. ie "Iceman 2 blind on Maverick flgiht."
No contact / Negative contact implies comm / radar
The controller assumes you're looking. It conveys nothing to him. Unless you tell him you have visual contact with the traffic and you can maintain your own separation, NOTHING else you tell him means squat. I'm looking, but can't see him is the same as I don't give a crap what you see on your scope, I'm not looking out the window.
I think saying "looking" ties up the frequency unnecessarily. Why not just look, and if you don't see the traffic, then tell the controller. No need to get in a big hurry.
Tried that and I usually got, "Callsign 21, center..." "Yes center, we are looking" so I stopped doing the "silence until I see him thing"